The cost of kids

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southfieldhibby

southfieldhibby

Private Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2002
Heard on the radio this morning that the average cost to parents for raising as child to the age of 20 is £240,000. I guess there a degree of economies of scale with 2nd/3rd kids costing a wee bit less, but 2 kids on average probably cost £400,000.00 :surp@:shock: And that's the average.

I'm away for a wee lie down and a greet
 
southfieldhibby said:
Heard on the radio this morning that the average cost to parents for raising as child to the age of 20 is £240,000. I guess there a degree of economies of scale with 2nd/3rd kids costing a wee bit less, but 2 kids on average probably cost £400,000.00 :surp@:shock: And that's the average.

I'm away for a wee lie down and a greet
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It's bonkers. Things really are fecked.
 
egb_hibs said:
It's bonkers. Things really are fecked.
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They really are. I started wondering what's the cut off point for those in charge to reign things in like the Chinese did? What's the number when kids/future workers/pension funders become too much of a drag on resources?

And how much of that £240K number is paid by folk other than the parent/guardian?
 
Sounds like bawz to me. I've heard that stat before.

I'm assuming it takes stuff like getting a bigger house, getting a bigger car. Neither of which I've done. More costly holidays, perhaps?

Lets say, for simplicity, you consider their full dependency to being the duration of their first 18 years. Work it out like a mortgage.

£200,000 over 18 years, per month = £925.

There is no way I spunk a grand a month on each one of my 4 kids.

Who the feck is this based on? What's included?
 
southfieldhibby said:
They really are. I started wondering what's the cut off point for those in charge to reign things in like the Chinese did? What's the number when kids/future workers/pension funders become too much of a drag on resources?

And how much of that £240K number is paid by folk other than the parent/guardian?
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It's the other way around if anything. The decision not to have kids is only possible because of welfarism, and welfarism demands the population grows.

If you are not on benefits very little gets paid by other than the parent, and the childless by choice reap the benefit. There is still a massive shortfall though, hence mass immigration to keep things going. As skii noted on the other thread, pensions are being put under pressure because of insufficient numbers of young people. The whole system is completely fucked by our lifestyle choices but it's political suicide for it to be raised, so it isn't. It also impacts house prices - and ensures misallocation of stock - those most indeed of a family home can least afford it.

The Chinese are fucked as a consequence of their policy btw - it's their biggest looming crisis.

- - - Updated - - -

Brainwrong said:
Sounds like bawz to me. I've heard that stat before.

I'm assuming it takes stuff like getting a bigger house, getting a bigger car. Neither of which I've done. More costly holidays, perhaps?

Lets say, for simplicity, you consider their full dependency to being the duration of their first 18 years. Work it out like a mortgage.

£200,000 over 18 years, per month = £925.

There is no way I spunk a grand a month on each one of my 4 kids.

Who the feck is this based on? What's included?
Click to expand...

The average cost of pre school care in UK is >200 pw. There's 50k on that alone n the first 5 years if both parents are working.
 
egb_hibs said:
The average cost of pre school care in UK is >200 pw. There's 50k on that alone n the first 5 years if both parents are working.
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True. Pre school childcare is an absolute killer. My ex started her own business working from home to allow more flexibility because childcare was so expensive. They were still in part time (the first two kids) and it was still 3 times our mortgage at the time, per month.

Edit:

I lied, unintentionally, I did buy a bigger house (as a direct result of having kids), in 2009. Mainly because they needed a room each. Now I'm considering a bigger place (due to yet more kids)

Maybe they do cause inflated living costs. But outside of general housing, that figure seems steep. Really steep.
 
Brainwrong said:
True. Pre school childcare is an absolute killer. My ex started her own business working from home to allow more flexibility because childcare was so expensive. They were still in part time (the first two kids) and it was still 3 times our mortgage at the time, per month.
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If kids are the part time it usually means a parent is working part time, so again you can factor in lost earnings. Pre school is as expensive as private school, that's the bonkers reality - private school is seen as the preserve of the well off, but every ordinary joe has to find the same fo pre school if they're both working!

I think the headline numbers are based on London and so probably a bit high. But I can I imagine it being up there if you've no state entitlements or help from grand parents.
 
egb_hibs said:
If kids are the part time it usually means a parent is working part time, so again you can factor in lost earnings. Pre school is as expensive as private school, that's the bonkers reality - private school is seen as the preserve of the well off, but every ordinary joe has to find the same fo pre school if they're both working!

I think the headline numbers are based on London and so probably a bit high. But I can I imagine it being up there if you've no state entitlements or help from grand parents.
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I dream of help from grandparents.
 
Brainwrong said:
I dream of help from grandparents.
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You and me both! I see couples who have their kids squirrelled away with their parents for an over nighter every week. They'll have more 'adult time' in a few months than me and the missus have had in a dozen years. As for financial help - well let's not even think about that one! Not that I'd want the latter but the former would be transformative were it possible, which it's not.
 
egb_hibs said:
You and me both! I see couples who have their kids squirrelled away with their parents for an over nighter every week. They'll have more 'adult time' in a few months than me and the missus have had in a dozen years. As for financial help - well let's not even think about that one!
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Indeed. We're on our own. Which is nice if it works out, probably pish it it all goes tits up.

A large part of me and my first two's mother splitting up was as a direct result of ending up living separate lives because the only way to get any time to ourselves was to cover the childcare for the other one to get a break.

Pretty pish. But that's the way society is these days.


Fair amount of turbulence.
 
Me and the wife both had to cut a shift a week and have the benefit of 3 sets of grandparents to look after the wee man. Friends and siblings too lend a hand. It would literally be impossible to afford full time nursery. I agree with what egb has sayed for years - parents need tax incentives or increased benefits to encourage couples to chose kids over holidays.

With a potential Out vote limiting EU migration this countries pension system could be absolutely fucked.
 
My laddie was in Nursery then pre-school for only half the week, two and a half days. The monthly cost worked out at the equivalent of my monthly mortgage (£550). No way could I afford full time care for him if there wasn't the flexibility with my job and support.

He goes to school in August though.

Mair money to spend on him and his obsession with Hibs.
 
Brainwrong said:
I dream of help from grandparents.
Click to expand...

egb_hibs said:
You and me both! I see couples who have their kids squirrelled away with their parents for an over nighter every week. They'll have more 'adult time' in a few months than me and the missus have had in a dozen years. As for financial help - well let's not even think about that one! Not that I'd want the latter but the former would be transformative were it possible, which it's not.
Click to expand...

I was a single parent up until last summer - I'd have already have lost my sh!t if it wasn't for my maw. After my bairn's ma upped sticks nearly six years ago now, my maw has given me either Friday or Saturday night off every week since (barring holidays and the odd week where she's otherwise busy). Been a total godsend, and I'm eternally grateful. She still does, even now my bird lives with us; so we get "date night" once a week. I can't overstate how much I recognise the value of that.
 
Childcare & Baby sitting
Education
Food
Clothing
Holidays
Hobbies & Toys
Leisure and Recreation
Pocket money
Furniture
Personal
Other (includes driving lessons, first car, birthday and Christmas 14167

This is the break down of the data they are referring to. It is for the first 21 years of the child's life.

The steepest outlay is in years 1-4 and in years 18-21

Scotland's data is less than this but it is still dearer than a lot of areas.

London and the South East the dearest, of course


[TD="class: fmtable__cell--number"]67586[/TD]
[TD="class: fmtable__cell--number"][/TD]

[TD="class: fmtable__cell--number"]74319[/TD]
[TD="class: fmtable__cell--number"][/TD]

[TD="class: fmtable__cell--number"]19517[/TD]
[TD="class: fmtable__cell--number"][/TD]

[TD="class: fmtable__cell--number"]10942[/TD]
[TD="class: fmtable__cell--number"][/TD]

[TD="class: fmtable__cell--number"]16675[/TD]
[TD="class: fmtable__cell--number"][/TD]

[TD="class: fmtable__cell--number"]9377[/TD]
[TD="class: fmtable__cell--number"][/TD]

[TD="class: fmtable__cell--number"]7486[/TD]

[TD="class: fmtable__cell--number"]4603[/TD]
[TD="class: fmtable__cell--number"][/TD]

[TD="class: fmtable__cell--number"]3434[/TD]
[TD="class: fmtable__cell--number"][/TD]

[TD="class: fmtable__cell--number"]1146[/TD]
[TD="class: fmtable__cell--number"][/TD]

Carried out by the Centre of Economic and Business Research seemingly
 
The__Proclaimer said:
Me and the wife both had to cut a shift a week and have the benefit of 3 sets of grandparents to look after the wee man. Friends and siblings too lend a hand. It would literally be impossible to afford full time nursery. I agree with what egb has sayed for years - parents need tax incentives or increased benefits to encourage couples to chose kids over holidays.

With a potential Out vote limiting EU migration this countries pension system could be absolutely $#@!ed.
Click to expand...

Or we could always have a 'national conversation' explaining the realities and readjusting the tax burden accordingly. Except that would be discriminatory (against what is effectively freeloading on the system) so it won't happen. So we need to keep the less wealthy parts of the world employed as baby farmers. This is what it is to be progressive.

So you're right we'd be fucked. But we're also fucked the other way. Any society that outsources having children so it can go on two holidays and have a new car every few years cannot and will not last, and probably doesn't deserve to.

- - - Updated - - -

SKII said:
Childcare & Baby sitting
Education
Food
Clothing
Holidays
Hobbies & Toys
Leisure and Recreation
Pocket money
Furniture
Personal
Other (includes driving lessons, first car, birthday and Christmas 14167

This is the break down of the data they are referring to. It is for the first 21 years of the child's life.

The steepest outlay is in years 1-4 and in years 18-21

Scotland's data is less than this but it is still dearer than a lot of areas.

London and the South East the dearest, of course


[TD="class: fmtable__cell--number"]67586[/TD]
[TD="class: fmtable__cell--number"][/TD]

[TD="class: fmtable__cell--number"]74319[/TD]
[TD="class: fmtable__cell--number"][/TD]

[TD="class: fmtable__cell--number"]19517[/TD]
[TD="class: fmtable__cell--number"][/TD]

[TD="class: fmtable__cell--number"]10942[/TD]
[TD="class: fmtable__cell--number"][/TD]

[TD="class: fmtable__cell--number"]16675[/TD]
[TD="class: fmtable__cell--number"][/TD]

[TD="class: fmtable__cell--number"]9377[/TD]
[TD="class: fmtable__cell--number"][/TD]

[TD="class: fmtable__cell--number"]7486[/TD]

[TD="class: fmtable__cell--number"]4603[/TD]
[TD="class: fmtable__cell--number"][/TD]

[TD="class: fmtable__cell--number"]3434[/TD]
[TD="class: fmtable__cell--number"][/TD]

[TD="class: fmtable__cell--number"]1146[/TD]
[TD="class: fmtable__cell--number"][/TD]

Carried out by the Centre of Economic and Business Research seemingly
Click to expand...
some of it looks high to me - when did a first car become a parental expense?! - but a lot is believable. The most glaring thing is education - where does that number come from?
 
egb_hibs said:
some of it looks high to me - when did a first car become a parental expense?! - but a lot is believable. The most glaring thing is education - where does that number come from?
Click to expand...

The bit I am paying for now!

Having two kids going through uni at the same time...even if they get their fees paid by the authorities the rest costs £000s - like being back at the beginning again and paying for nursery fees. And the youngest is doing veterinary medicine so my financial outlay for my "child" will go on until he is 25 :doh

This all ties in neatly with the housing crisis thread too - student accommodation has become big business.

With regards to the school bit it includes uniforms, trips, text books, revision papers and guides and all the range of "enterprise" related activities that cost kids and families money
 
SKII said:
The bit I am paying for now!

Having two kids going through uni at the same time...even if they get their fees paid by the authorities the rest costs £000s - like being back at the beginning again and paying for nursery fees. And the youngest is doing veterinary medicine so my financial outlay for my "child" will go on until he is 25 :doh

This all ties in neatly with the housing crisis thread too - student accommodation has become big business.

With regards to the school bit it includes uniforms, trips, text books, revision papers and guides and all the range of "enterprise" related activities that cost kids and families money
Click to expand...

I don't doubt it but 75k - when the continuing costs of feeding and clothing the blighters is presumably covered under other items? Is it really that much?
 
egb_hibs said:
I don't doubt it but 75k - when the continuing costs of feeding and clothing the blighters is presumably covered under other items? Is it really that much?
Click to expand...



The stats include non Scottish students who pay exorbitant fees - many leaving uni with between £30 and £40K of fees to be paid. Accommodation costs in student accomodation blocks/these nice new flats that are springing up everywhere to keep students out of tenement flats start at £144 a week and this is paid the whole year. There's another 7 grand a year. Easily gets up to the 75K mark for those people. And over 50% of students pay the £9K fees these days.

Add to that the books, the fares, equipment (in the case of practical degrees like medicine, vet med, sciences etc) the food bill etc and it all mounts up.

Of course, this can be offset against the student taking a part time job/student loan but some degrees it is simply not possible to work and do the degree. In my youngest's case they are actually not allowed to take a job. They are told this from the offset when they apply - workload is unrelenting and they have (unpaid) compulsory work placements to do through the summer holidays (13 weeks to be done by the end of second year). That means the burden falls on us. "Happy" to take the hit and make do with cutting back on things to support it but it really is like being back at the nursery stage.
The £75K is skewed by the English and Welsh kids paying for fees, undoubtedly, but it's still the most expensive time for most kids in terms of their education unless they were educated privately.
 
[MENTION=2089]SKII[/MENTION]

Ooft, I better get saving. No wonder all the parents I know look older than Childress by choice peers , and not only through the latter often dressing too young.
 
egb_hibs said:
@SKII

Ooft, I better get saving. No wonder all the parents I know look older than Childress by choice peers , and not only through the latter often dressing too young.
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If wee Eegie wants to go to uni down south, even more so. Bottom line for us would have been we would have really, really toiled if SKII Jnr had not got into vet school up here. It actually didn't bear thinking about if it had been down south. Fees alone for him would have been £72K at the current rate and that would be before all the rest. I'm genuinely not sure we could have done it. Probably looking at selling the house and down sizing! Glad it didn't come to it. We've just got the "holidaying where Easyjet fly" and weekly shop habit type savings to be made. (The one vice we agreed that would not be touched was the football!)

Out of interest, I checked the price of a room in the new student accommodation at Abbeyhill. £187 p/w for the rent. :doh Edinburgh Council are part of driving this in an attempt to get the students out of the tenements they need to house the transient work force and to deal with anti social/demographic angle of having student flats all over the city centre. (Newington area residents are particularly vocal in campaigning to reduce the number of students there, for example).
 
I was fortunate enough to catch them talking about this on radio Ulster as I was in Stranraer. They only talked about it for a couple of minutes though as there was important chat about the first minister going to some meeting thing about 1916 and did they all fancy a rant about that!
 
Brainwrong said:
Indeed. We're on our own. Which is nice if it works out, probably pish it it all goes tits up.

A large part of me and my first two's mother splitting up was as a direct result of ending up living separate lives because the only way to get any time to ourselves was to cover the childcare for the other one to get a break.

Pretty pish. But that's the way society is these days.


Fair amount of turbulence.
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Can totally see that point. I've 2 kids, eldest is 5, and during those five years I honestly think we have had 3 or 4 nights out together minus kids. We do get out a bit but just not with each other. As you say, adds a bit of turbulence to the relationship.
 
Funkydunc said:
Can totally see that point. I've 2 kids, eldest is 5, and during those five years I honestly think we have had 3 or 4 nights out together minus kids. We do get out a bit but just not with each other. As you say, adds a bit of turbulence to the relationship.
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We just ended up drifting apart socially and relationship-wise. Ceased to be a relationship.

I think it's really hard to keep the sparks alive even when you get support. But, to have no time together sans kids, you're asking for trouble.

But, sometimes, we just don't have the choice.

I'm hyper aware of not making the same mistakes which is good but can feel like baggage too.

Mother of the twins (latest & last kids!), her parents give us a night off once a month. Which, is amazing. Even purely for your relationship sanity. Just to sit down together on the couch, chat, do nice things, sleep! It's a feckin' godsend.
 
SKII said:
The bit I am paying for now!

Having two kids going through uni at the same time...even if they get their fees paid by the authorities the rest costs £000s - like being back at the beginning again and paying for nursery fees. And the youngest is doing veterinary medicine so my financial outlay for my "child" will go on until he is 25 :doh

This all ties in neatly with the housing crisis thread too - student accommodation has become big business.

With regards to the school bit it includes uniforms, trips, text books, revision papers and guides and all the range of "enterprise" related activities that cost kids and families money
Click to expand...

They got a private school quality education for high school mind...[emoji6][emoji6]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Brainwrong said:
True. Pre school childcare is an absolute killer. My ex started her own business working from home to allow more flexibility because childcare was so expensive. They were still in part time (the first two kids) and it was still 3 times our mortgage at the time, per month.

Edit:

I lied, unintentionally, I did buy a bigger house (as a direct result of having kids), in 2009. Mainly because they needed a room each. Now I'm considering a bigger place (due to yet more kids)

Maybe they do cause inflated living costs. But outside of general housing, that figure seems steep. Really steep.
Click to expand...

Tie a feckin knot in it!
 
[video=youtube_share;WgQUMKEyEp4]https://youtu.be/WgQUMKEyEp4[/video]
 
SKII said:
The bit I am paying for now!

Having two kids going through uni at the same time...even if they get their fees paid by the authorities the rest costs £000s - like being back at the beginning again and paying for nursery fees. And the youngest is doing veterinary medicine so my financial outlay for my "child" will go on until he is 25 :doh

This all ties in neatly with the housing crisis thread too - student accommodation has become big business.

With regards to the school bit it includes uniforms, trips, text books, revision papers and guides and all the range of "enterprise" related activities that cost kids and families money
Click to expand...

Maybe your youngest could come up and take care of my daughter's horse - it costs more than mortgage and car put together ever did - and he's healthy!
 
I think we're just about to see all the money we didn't spend on childcare get spent. I wish i'd earned enough then to save for teenage expenses.
 
I take these sort of reports with a large pinch of salt. The bigger the numbers the more they are newsworthy. You can reduce the numbers by a fair bit if you don't send your kids to private schools, spend less than £800 on holidays p/a etc. Basically, an average is pretty meaningless.

I'm not saying it's not expensive to bring up kids but you make most of the choices on how much to spend.
 
Depending on the partner, the true cost of having kids is often the other parent.


Fair amount of turbulence.
 
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