The authoritarian Left has become everything it claims to hate.

[Brainwrong]

Oxford students shut down abortion debate. Free speech is under assault on campus - Telegraph

I know you'll dig this one, Eeg.

Seems odd that Jessica Valenti nor anyone else at the Guardian have written about this...

 

[egb_hibs]

There is no such thing as a non authoritarian left - that is just the left not-in-power. As the left have become the establishment, results have been predictable; dissenting voices are silenced and holding non approved views can be a danger to ones career, social standing and in some cases Liberty.

In the early days of the forum I fretted about the left instigating a culture war here as they did in the US; clearly that horse has now bolted. As in the US militancy will spawn militancy and they will drive opposing views to become more extreme. As in the US, establishment controlled media and academic hegemonies will ensure the main antagonists are sheltered and dissent demonised.

It's going to end in fucking tears.

 

[gun ainm]

There is no such thing as a non authoritarian left -

sh!te - there's as wide a spectrum between libertarianism and authoritarianism on the left as there is in the centre or indeed the right.

that you rail against authoritarianism yet plan to vote ukip twho want to round up and deport johnny foreigner is a tad ironic - perhaps you hate because they remind you of yourself?

 

[egb_hibs]

Alright GA, but would you agree that what brain wrong describes is indeed an example of today's rampant leftist authoritarianism, and that it is indeed becoming a problem? And would you agree that this is in line with what happens every time in reality, whatever you may claim to be possible in theory?

As for your caricature of UKIP - standard chaff from the "let them eat cake" elite. It's not working anymore. The times they are a changing old boy, and despite how unassailable it may seem right now, your establishment is no more permanent than anything else. But this belongs more on the Emily Thornberry thread.

 

[gun ainm]

Alright GA, but would you agree that what brain wrong describes is indeed an example of today's rampant leftist authoritarianism, and that it is indeed becoming a problem? And would you agree that this is in line with what happens every time in reality, whatever you may claim to be possible in theory?

As for your caricature of UKIP - standard chaff from the "let them eat cake" elite. It's not working anymore. The times they are a changing old boy, and despite how unassailable it may seem right now, your establishment is no more permanent than anything else. But this belongs more on the Emily Thornberry thread.

don't know if its leftist - sounded like a single issue possibly broadly feminist group? they didn't go into their wider socio-economic perspectives - i'm sorry I cant get wound up about this - oxford students plan to debate abortion in some wee club, members of wee club decide they don't want it. personally I'd be in favour of having the debate and the women to protest if that is their bent - cisgender is a new one on me too right enough though. so apart from the headline which is a bit melodramatic not much to see here - BW was right though this is right up your leafy boulevard M

if the labour party represent leftist authoritarianism in this country I'd suggest we start talking about centre rightist authoritarianism from now on - as opposed to the far right authoritarianism represented by UKIP?

 

[egb_hibs]

Disappointing. You know fine this is but one example.

I don't know what ukip have to do with this or why it is my role to defend them. But I haven't read anything authoritarian coming from them.

That's not to say you don't get authoritarianism on the right; of course you do. But it's not so intrinsic nor in modern times is it the problem.

 

[gun ainm]

Disappointing. You know fine this is but one example.

I don't know what ukip have to do with this or why it is my role to defend them. But I haven't read anything authoritarian coming from them.

That's not to say you don't get authoritarianism on the right; of course you do. But it's not so intrinsic nor in modern times is it the problem.

apart from the repatriation of foreigners?
apart from 2 Billion quids worth of new prisons?
apart from support for secret courts? link
apart from telling people who they can and cant marry?

and I thought you were astute!

 

[egb_hibs]

apart from the repatriation of foreigners?

You mean illegal immigrants don't you? I wonder why you choose to misrepresent in this way.

And that is authoritarian how?

As an aside, one reason the left pursue saturation level immigration is that it erodes social coherence and thus society's ability to self regulate; creating the need for more state authoritarianism. A second reason is to create captive votes which provide political power.

apart from 2 Billion quids worth of new prisons?

It's the left that will try and populate them with thought criminals

apart from support for secret courts? link

A strange example to pick given they're the only major party not quoted in the article

apart from telling people who they can and cant marry?

Man, you're so far gone. Redefining the meaning of marriage is one of the most egregious examples of state authoritarianism in recent history; an example of orwellian redefinition of the meaning of language and quasi theocratic approach to legislating. And against a backdrop of establishment authoritarianism par excellence; bullying, demonising, intimidating dissenting voices, battering out one-sided agit prop through all arms of the establishment etc.

and I thought you were astute!

I am genuinely unsure if your view of the meaning of authoritarian is the same as mine.

I mean the exercise of power to impose a viewpoint, including the stifling of alternatives. It sometimes sounds like your definition is closer to; 'legislative actions which disagree with my own convictions'.

Finally, there is an active thread on UKIP - if you want to take this red herring any further, let's pick it up there.

Now, do you or do you not concede that the op refers to an example of a wider trend that is becoming increasingly problematic, and is very much typical of what happens when the left attains overweening power?

 

[gun ainm]

fair enough egb hadnt spotted the UKIP thread - the repatriation of foreigners came from a Mark Reckless quote during the by-election when he was invited to outline what status legal EU migrants would have after we left the EU under a UKIP govt. A libertarian position would surely be for the free movement of all peoples anyway? by definition?

 

[egb_hibs]

A completely purist libertarian capitalist position might be R, but that doesn't mean things that are not that are authoritarian. In fact quite the opposite. Such extreme right wingery is no more grounded in reality than the extreme left. Their envisaged utopia would last about 5 mins before it became a war of all upon all, or a new feudalism. In short, it wouldn't remain libertarian for long.

The pragmatic libertarian aims for the maximum freedom that is sustainable, the leftist tries to attack the foundations of that sustainability to create the need for ever greater intrusion by political authorities, the extreme rightist attacks the same foundations believing that somehow a perfectly atomised collection of people can still produce a community that doesn't need a totalitarian state to hold the mess together.

The leftist agitators are succeeding to a scarey degree; It must be hundreds of years since freedom of thought and expression was as curtailed as it is today (in the UK).

Somewhere - and I hope and also believe it won't be the UK - this is all going to meltdown catastrophically. One reason it is unlikely to be the UK is that we can produce UKIPs to pour grit into the gears of renascent leftism, whereas on the continent the reaction to one form of socialism tends to be another form of socialism. UKIP is a literal anti fascist party when the continent is rebirthing red and brown fascisms (or a blend of the two) at a rate of knots.

 

[GORDONSMITH7]

Alright GA, but would you agree that what brain wrong describes is indeed an example of today's rampant leftist authoritarianism,

Sorry Brainwrong didnae describe it, The Telegraph did. Instead of reeling against a relatively unimportant College politics event that nobody has heard of, nor cares about, in the real world there is virtually nowt said by your good self, The Telegraph and I flatter you both, to be in the same grouping, as Western Multi National companies with diverse interests, and unimaginable billions invested, along with Western so called 'Leaders' shitting themselves to criticize the grotesque anti working class authoritarianism and censorship of the so called Communist Party of China. Some 'Left wing authoritarianism' would appear to more acceptable than others if the Dollar/Pound/Euro is to be made.

BIG G

 

[egb_hibs]

Sorry Brainwrong didnae describe it, The Telegraph did. Instead of reeling against a relatively unimportant College politics event that nobody has heard of, nor cares about, in the real world there is virtually nowt said by your good self, The Telegraph and I flatter you both, to be in the same grouping, as Western Multi National companies with diverse interests, and unimaginable billions invested, along with Western so called 'Leaders' $#@!ting themselves to criticize the grotesque anti working class authoritarianism and censorship of the so called Communist Party of China. Some 'Left wing authoritarianism' would appear to more acceptable than others if the Dollar/Pound/Euro is to be made.

BIG G

These colleges and universities are turning out the inquisitorially minded tinpot Lenins who then become the establishment and start using the law to enforce their narrow minded world view.

People whose ideas do not meet with pc approval are not only denied a platform to speak but can be sacked or harassed by the law. Meanwhile, what is politically correct is propagandised through the media and universities. It's hardly trivial stuff G; it is dramatically affecting the course of society.

You're having a chuckle if you think I'm uncritical of China btw, though I fail to see your broader point; this politically correct stuff is no worry to the the organisations you speak of, in fact it helps them in many ways.

Theres actually a sort of parallel with China and the PC left, albeit dramatically different by degree; in China they have moved beyond ineffective marxist economics but the essence of socialism remains in the totalitarian approach to modelling society. Thats a bit like the pc left here; economics is way off centre stage now, it's the control agenda that dominates.

 

[gun ainm]

A completely purist libertarian capitalist position might be R, but that doesn't mean things that are not that are authoritarian. In fact quite the opposite. Such extreme right wingery is no more grounded in reality than the extreme left. Their envisaged utopia would last about 5 mins before it became a war of all upon all, or a new feudalism. In short, it wouldn't remain libertarian for long.

The pragmatic libertarian aims for the maximum freedom that is sustainable, the leftist tries to attack the foundations of that sustainability to create the need for ever greater intrusion by political authorities, the extreme rightist attacks the same foundations believing that somehow a perfectly atomised collection of people can still produce a community that doesn't need a totalitarian state to hold the mess together.

The leftist agitators are succeeding to a scarey degree; It must be hundreds of years since freedom of thought and expression was as curtailed as it is today (in the UK).

Somewhere - and I hope and also believe it won't be the UK - this is all going to meltdown catastrophically. One reason it is unlikely to be the UK is that we can produce UKIPs to pour grit into the gears of renascent leftism, whereas on the continent the reaction to one form of socialism tends to be another form of socialism. UKIP is a literal anti fascist party when the continent is rebirthing red and brown fascisms (or a blend of the two) at a rate of knots.

so a pragmatic libertarian is an authoritarian until they create their own utopia/balanced society and then they can become libertarian again? 'that's just the right amount of freedom for you' - i see

 

[Peanut]

What does authoritarian left even mean? I don't have an urban dictionary so I guess I'll just have to remain gloriously ignorant on the matter.

The article is just so typical of the bags of pan drops that the Telegraph passes around its readership all the time. They just love it. Sooking away, suitably shocked and wallowing in their convictions.

I would have thought nobody who didn't subscribe to the Telegraph could possibly take the article seriously. I mean, contrast the sensational headline and teaser with the actual events described in the article. Reading the start you're thinking bullets to the back of the neck, knocks on the door in the dead of night. Instead it's a bunch of students doing what students have done since time began, indulging in their own self-importance. It's not too cliched a thought to suggest that these same people will be running banks and financial institutions in a few years time.

The readership of the Telegraph can only perceive a threat to what they deem to be 'our way of life' from the left. A left that exists at best on margins of society and certainly doesn't have any authority. The reality is that the real threat to our way of life come from the various shades of right -- and they do exist and they've got this country by the balls.

 

[Jack]

The authoritarian communist China, from what I've been able to garner is about as true to its original communist values as The Boy David is to being a saviour of the NHS in England.

There is rampant nepotism and corruption throughout the States, from the very top to the basics of their society, it is so far removed from the original ideals from communism as you are likely to get!

It's authoritarian, BIG TIME, but lets not kid ourselves on it's an example of how a left wing state iz or izn't the beez kneez.