should Indyscot (re)join the EU?

[gun ainm]

hypothetical scenario for the day

Scotland votes for indy next year
UK leaves EU before indy process complete
EU gives green light for Scotland to apply

should we? might EFTA be a better bet?

https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/10240/robin-mcalpine-why-joining-efta-instead-eu-could-be-answer-scotland

seems 'senior' figures in the SNP may be favouring this position?

might make the proposition for Indyref2 more attractive to waiveres? Robin MacAlpine put a guesstimate of 1/8 of yes voters have changed their minds post Brexit.....

 

[egb_hibs]

Interesting. This jumped out;

"exports to the UK really are much more important to us at the moment than exports to the EU and we need to take that seriously."

Absolutely true, which is why nats who believe brexit to be the end of the world strike me as rather bizarre.

I've not got a well thought through answer to the question but instinctively I find his argument appealing. I voted remain for reasons of peace between nations. As wee country strains of nationalism remind us, Scotland doesn't amount to much in that area, so if we're taken out I don't see the world becoming a materially safer place by rejoining.

With that interest gone, it leaves me with a subject I'm otherwise pretty ambivalent on, and a general preference for subsidiarity over centralisation of power. As such, as I say, his argument appeals, but I couldn't claim to have a well reasoned answer.

 

[Findlayhibby]

No.I supported Lexit.Out of the big business neo liberal, pro austerity agenda.Out of the UK,weaken the British state and make it easier for workers to fight for Socialism.:coffee:

 

[egb_hibs]

No.I supported Lexit.Out of the big business neo liberal, pro austerity agenda.Out of the UK,weaken the British state and make it easier for workers to fight for Socialism.:coffee:

That boat sailed along time ago Moaty (leaving aside the fact that no one other than university professors wanted to be in it). Your workers would find their jobs offshored or labour immigrated to displace them. Then your socialist vanguard would split in two, with the larger part becoming the bosses henchman, using digital billy clubs to silence those workers as racists. The smaller part would remain utterly paralysed by the contradictions in their position, and be completely neutered.

Eventually a trump-like figure would come along...

 

[gun ainm]

Interesting. This jumped out;

"exports to the UK really are much more important to us at the moment than exports to the EU and we need to take that seriously."

Absolutely true, which is why nats who believe brexit to be the end of the world strike me as rather bizarre.

I've not got a well thought through answer to the question but instinctively I find his argument appealing. I voted remain for reasons of peace between nations. As wee country strains of nationalism remind us, Scotland doesn't amount to much in that area, so if we're taken out I don't see the world becoming a materially safer place by rejoining.

With that interest gone, it leaves me with a subject I'm otherwise pretty ambivalent on, and a general preference for subsidiarity over centralisation of power. As such, as I say, his argument appeals, but I couldn't claim to have a well reasoned answer.

clearly EU membership is about more than trade - there's ECHR and other social considerations as well as the peace dividend (difficult/impossible to measure or value)

However personally I think being outside of the EU would be no bad thing for Scotland BUT in the context of Indyref2 it could be a significant issue for many voters. So setting up provisional membership of EFTA (with access to the EEA like Norway and Iceland if desired) may be 'enough' to overcome any fears on that front.....it would seem a simple and winnable target prior to another referendum and hey Spain isnae in EFTA

also thought this was spot on

Unless we now manage to hold and win a referendum on Scottish independence, negotiate a full date for independence and terms of separation, create a viable functioning nation state that meets EU criteria and then negotiate terms of membership of the EU all within the next two years, we're out of the EU. Some of you will instinctively rebel against this and feel there is a way, some way, that Scotland could have seamless EU membership. There isn't.

 

[Hattie]

hypothetical scenario for the day

Scotland votes for indy next year
UK leaves EU before indy process complete
EU gives green light for Scotland to apply

should we? might EFTA be a better bet?

https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/10240/robin-mcalpine-why-joining-efta-instead-eu-could-be-answer-scotland

seems 'senior' figures in the SNP may be favouring this position?

might make the proposition for Indyref2 more attractive to waiveres? Robin MacAlpine put a guesstimate of 1/8 of yes voters have changed their minds post Brexit.....

How can anyone guesstimate a 12.5% change i take it it is from yes - no?
Strange that, as i know no-one who has said that, but a very lot of No-yes... sorry for off topic, in saying that it isn't really...
As for the trade to Ruk, they refuse to put a figure of what Scotlands exports are that are heading straight through England and onto Europe... but as it leaves from Englands ports they claim them as England's exports, whisky for example, so on that basis i presume they claim said goods were exported from Scotland to England

 

[gun ainm]

How can anyone guesstimate a 12.5% change i take it it is from yes - no?
Strange that, as i know no-one who has said that, but a very lot of No-yes... sorry for off topic, in saying that it isn't really...
As for the trade to Ruk, they refuse to put a figure of what Scotlands exports are that are heading straight through England and onto Europe... but as it leaves from Englands ports they claim them as England's exports, whisky for example, so on that basis i presume they claim said goods were exported from Scotland to England

sorry guesstimate was the wrong word - there's a report on the changes in support for indy that i just linked on the brexit thread which is probably the rationale for his assertion. you'll see its countered by increased support from other sectors (esp the young)

also linked here for convenience LINK

 

[HenryLB]

How can anyone guesstimate a 12.5% change i take it it is from yes - no?
Strange that, as i know no-one who has said that, but a very lot of No-yes... sorry for off topic, in saying that it isn't really...
As for the trade to Ruk, they refuse to put a figure of what Scotlands exports are that are heading straight through England and onto Europe... but as it leaves from Englands ports they claim them as England's exports, whisky for example, so on that basis i presume they claim said goods were exported from Scotland to England

That whisky thing is an urban myth. For revenue purposes it's counted as Scottish no matter where it leaves from.

There's also a survey-based export figure which does take into account point of production, not point of departure. The Scottish Govt use it and while it's not correct to the pound I doubt it's miles out.

Export Statistics Scotland - Frequently Asked Questions


Scottish Exports Statistics