Setting Examples

[Brainwrong]

Just a thought I had, whilst reading about the old-ish case of the poor lassie that was killed by some feral fucks because she was a goth. The article regarding the trial and conduct of the attackers & their families pre & during the trail made me think that, these boys really didn't stand much of a chance with the upbringing that they had, it was always going to turn sour. And, whilst it might sound like I'm professing sympathy for them, and I kinda am to an extent, I'm not in any way saying they shouldn't be punished. What I am suggesting is that, given they had such horrendous examples set by their parents/primary care givers, that subversion of the duties that a parent(s) have, to bring up someone well; should these actively pish parents also be punished?

I'm not talking about parents of children that went mental of their own random volition, I'm talking about parents that, by their very actions, cultivated the mindset & validated it which led to this and this kind of attack via abuse, neglect and toxic hateful views of the world and everyone in it.

Thoughts?

 

[HenryLB]

Just a thought I had, whilst reading about the old-ish case of the poor lassie that was killed by some feral fucks because she was a goth. The article regarding the trial and conduct of the attackers & their families pre & during the trail made me think that, these boys really didn't stand much of a chance with the upbringing that they had, it was always going to turn sour. And, whilst it might sound like I'm professing sympathy for them, and I kinda am to an extent, I'm not in any way saying they shouldn't be punished. What I am suggesting is that, given they had such horrendous examples set by their parents/primary care givers, that subversion of the duties that a parent(s) have, to bring up someone well; should these actively pish parents also be punished?

I'm not talking about parents of children that went mental of their own random volition, I'm talking about parents that, by their very actions, cultivated the mindset & validated it which led to this and this kind of attack via abuse, neglect and toxic hateful views of the world and everyone in it.

Thoughts?

I get your point, but it's problematic, I'd say, because our law is based on personal responsibility. And how would you establish neglect to the extent of criminal wrongdoing? Where would the line lie, such that you were prepared to put people in jail for it?

 

[Brainwrong]

I get your point, but it's problematic, I'd say, because our law is based on personal responsibility. And how would you establish neglect to the extent of criminal wrongdoing? Where would the line lie, such that you were prepared to put people in jail for it?

Definitely problematic. And, I really struggle with the idea of it being implementable (if that's even a word). It hits free will, nature / nurture, and a fair amount of other concepts, philosophical and otherwise. It's perhaps more of a thought experiment but, if you could stop these cycles dead and create the fear of what would happen if feral you ended up getting your similarly feral parents jailed, perhaps that'd be the thing that would create controls and responsibility. Pretty shitty though.

 

[egb_hibs]

Definitely problematic. And, I really struggle with the idea of it being implementable (if that's even a word). It hits free will, nature / nurture, and a fair amount of other concepts, philosophical and otherwise. It's perhaps more of a thought experiment but, if you could stop these cycles dead and create the fear of what would happen if feral you ended up getting your similarly feral parents jailed, perhaps that'd be the thing that would create controls and responsibility. Pretty $#@!ty though.

Where would it stop - would broken family's be prosecuted if their kids went off the rails with no other identified domestic factor?

I don't think the sins of the children can be legally visited on the fathers and mothers. I would have thought existing measures around intervention in case of negligence or abuse are what need attention, if anything.

 

[Brainwrong]

Where would it stop - would broken family's be prosecuted if their kids went off the rails with no other identified domestic factor?

I don't think the sins of the children can be legally visited on the fathers and mothers. I would have thought existing measures around intervention in case of negligence or abuse are what need attention, if anything.

Nope, that's what I attempted to pre-empt in the second paragraph of my OP.

 

[egb_hibs]

Nope, that's what I attempted to pre-empt in the second paragraph of my OP.

But it underlines the problem; it's one of the biggest predictors of negative outcomes. Of course many / most kids come through it without that but it's one the biggest common factor in those who don't - and therefore behind overall rises in problems.

If we exclude it from your hypothetical scheme, as we should, how then do we quantify what would come within it - without that being hopelessly subjective? As ever, the extremes are easy to see but are also at the margins.

 

[Brainwrong]

But it underlines the problem; it's one of the biggest predictors of negative outcomes. Of course many / most kids come through it without that but it's one the biggest common factor in those who don't - and therefore behind overall rises in problems.

If we exclude it from your hypothetical scheme, as we should, how then do we quantify what would come within it - without that being hopelessly subjective? As ever, the extremes are easy to see but are also at the margins.

Broken families can have bad uns just as non broken families (in the sense I assume you mean). I'm talking on a case by case basis rather than making assumptions in law.