Serious attack in Germany...

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It's not gonna stop, these people are hell bent on causing pain and suffering. Bombs, guns, knives even trucks. They have no point, what do they want?
 
PILTONSTANY said:
Some trek for a 16/17 yr old to make,wonder why he left Afghanistan?
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That question is quite crucial. Did he leave Afganistan with the intention of some payback on the west? Did he hope for a better life but get disheartened for whatever reason? or was he simply psychotic? Whatever the reason it is not going to stop anytime soon. The West have orphaned so many families that the pain and revenge is not going away any time soon. The religious fanatics are loyal only to their extreme version of Islam and are not likely to change their mind, and there are hundreds of disillusioned teenagers and young men/woman who are searching for a cause...any cause which makes them feel part of something. Meanwhile people in the West generally think of self and blindly try to believe everything will be alright if we just show acceptance to everyone.

Do I have an answer? Nope...well one way would be stop invading other countries..but overall there is no real answer, we have entered a nightmare that is not going away. And before someone starts accusing me of anti-Muslim rhetoric, I am not targeting Muslims in particular but only those who believe in a form of Islam which does not tolerate other religions. There are factions within the Hindi, Sikh, Christian, Buddhist and every other religion whereby people carry out same atrocities all over the world. Islam is probably the largest and commit more atrocities than others at this time....previously Christian did and at other times Hindis did etc. Yes and it would be easy to blame religion, but true religion does not teach people to kill but to love and be tolerant. The evil that causes these people to devote their lives to mayhem is no religion at all, but an outlet for people who are lost in themselves and have no care for humanity as a whole, but seek to impose their own selfish beliefs on others with the pretense or false belief that they are being guided by God, and if they believe that then there is no words from people they see as infidels that are going to make a difference in their life.

But while relatively few Muslims in UK have these beliefs, many do want Sharia law. In some countries almost 80% want this. In UK many Muslims have moved away from these countries and do not wish to live under these laws, so buck the trend somewhat. However now there are over 3m Muslims in UK, it is estimated 28% believe in Sharia law. That is over 700k in UK who do not support our laws and directives. Still a minority but appears to have a growing population. Within this 700k, again most will not have murder/atrocities on their mind, however it shows the kind of target levels hate preachers have listening to them. Scotland will have even fewer, hence why we are probably more supporting of incomers.

For the record, Sharia law is not all bad. Giving money loans to someone to start a business for example would entail no interest rates, something we do not do. However that loan is for Muslims only and not for non-Muslim. Getting a fair trial in a civil court whatever your cultural or financial background is also fairer that our ways. The beliefs behind the laws are also well intended, for example adultery laws are to encourage woman/men to stay faithful...though in reality only seem to lean on woman as men appear aloof to these things in some countries. However do we really want to see woman stoned to death if caught in adultery? Hmm many of us would be dead by now or half our families.

The laws are explained here Sharia law - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Again only 28% want Sharia law....or full Sharia...some might prefer a lighter version. However 700k is a lot of people in UK now who do want this to rule UK. Again though, very few of those who believe in Sharia want the violence being perpetrated on our cities but those who commit these atrocities are most liekly to be recruited from Sharia believers worldwide...and there are countless millions throughout the world in that category, so no we will not see an end to this any time soon, if ever.
 
aggie said:
Yeah, but why don't they want "DEMOCRACY", maaan??

(Heavy sarcasm intended)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I blame the spice girls...if only they had asked for something more than a ziggidy ahhh
 
egb_hibs said:
France this time; mother and three daughters (as young as 8) stabbed for being scantily clad

http://metro.co.uk/2016/07/19/mothe...ch-resort-for-being-scantily-dressed-6016072/
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emerald green said:
... due mainly to men in beards aboot 700 years ago.

I fuckin despair.
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Obviously the family failed to understand that there are different cultures, and that their family must adapt to this.

At what point are there statistically enough incidents for anyone in government to come out and publicly acknowledge that things are going breasts skywards, even just a little bit? That these can no longer be categorised as "outliers", but in fact indicators of an ever-growing trend?

"Tolerance" for me should not simply be a euphemism for "turning a blind eye". I'm not sure we should be tolerating the practice and propagation of doctrines which hold wearing a swimming costume as somehow more of a sin than stabbing women and children. The question is how to combat this proliferation, but that can't even begin to be answered until it's acknowledged as a problem, as opposed to simply hiding behind "well, it's not ALL Muslims, is it?"
 
emerald green said:
... due mainly to men in beards aboot 700 years ago.

I $#@!in despair.
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Lot longer ago than that. In fact going back longer than Islamic men in beards (1300 years or so) and into the culture of pre Islamic Arabia.

The sooner we get to grips with the fact we treating ancient and enduring culture as if it were one of our own flighty fads, subject to influence by a hashtag campaign or two, the better.

There is absolutely zero grounds for belief that starkly different cultures can coexist in a free society - there is not a single historical precedent and it doesn't even make sense theoretically. One way or the other we need serious minded approaches to building harmonious societies for coming generations. Alas we are in the grip of our own fundamentalisms and the Kult of PC will for a good while yet ensure that critical thought is forbidden.

As a result we are rushing blindly into a uncharted waters , with wilful lack of reasoned consideration of the consequences actually being seen as an active good. If we don't waken up soon there will be hell to pay. It's already too late for France.

- - - Updated - - -

aggie said:
Obviously the family failed to understand that there are different cultures, and that their family must adapt to this.

At what point are there statistically enough incidents for anyone in government to come out and publicly acknowledge that things are going breasts skywards, even just a little bit? That these can no longer be categorised as "outliers", but in fact indicators of an ever-growing trend?

"Tolerance" for me should not simply be a euphemism for "turning a blind eye". I'm not sure we should be tolerating the practice and propagation of doctrines which hold wearing a swimming costume as somehow more of a sin than stabbing women and children. The question is how to combat this proliferation, but that can't even begin to be answered until it's acknowledged as a problem, as opposed to simply hiding behind "well, it's not ALL Muslims, is it?"
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We are also overlooking something that is loaded with significance. Listen or read closely the answers given by moderates. Very often they will condemn capital punishment and the likes because this is not an Islamic society or sometimes not a perfect example of the same. This is skated over all the time as if the caveat means nothing - recent example was the Trevor Phillips documentary was full of this including from a very nice women actively involved in multi cultural outreach and working in a church. Unfortunately it doesn't mean nothing, not remotely. It reflects an obligation that comes in when such a society becomes viable, up to which point the host culture is to be respected. I absolutely believe these moderates have no desire for these things - and thus I absolutely believe that at some level they are glad to be in a western society. But as the numbers change so does the dynamic and so potentially do the requirements that come from the logic of their position.

This is absolutely a volume issue. Going back to phillips I found it bizarre that the right on types who deny the volume issue were picking holes in his findings by pointing out interviewees tended to come from areas with a concentrated Muslim population. Well, duh. As I've been saying on here for 13 years, in Rome it's easy to do as the Romans do - when it's no longer clear who the Romans are it's a different matter entirely.
 
More shit in Germany with multiple shooters on the loose. From the video I saw on sky I think this could be neo Nazis this time; certainly looked like a white bloke done up in black gear and combat boots. time will tell.
 
Wannabehibee said:
1 shooter. Now dead. Not thought to be terrorist related.
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I'm beginning to think about lot of these attacks are more bams in copy cat strikes than terrorist related.

It makes it more dangerous for normal folk going about their business.
 
Apparently this is the anniversary of the Brievik mass murder. Could be coincidence but I reckon it's looking like some Nazi bam or maybe just a nutcase or c) all of the above
 
egb_hibs said:
Apparently this is the anniversary of the Brievik mass murder. Could be coincidence but I reckon it's looking like some Nazi bam or maybe just a nutcase or c) all of the above
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an 18 year-old iranian mam is reported as being the gunman and that he acted completely on his own, no other suspects are being sought


odd that he shot himself though, that doesnae seem the normal practice of islamist terrorism, they are meant tae go doon fightin for allah i thought :hmmm
 
[FONT=Consolas, Menlo, Monaco, Lucida Console, Liberation Mono, DejaVu Sans Mono, Bitstream Vera Sans Mono, monospace, serif]The transcript below would rule out the Daesh connection I think - they wouldnt describe themselves as German, they would want the killings filmed if so. Sounds like a disaffected youth[/FONT]

  • Shooter: "I am German."
  • Balcony Man: "You're a **** is what you are"
  • Shooter: "Stop filming!


 
This is very much looking like your bullied loser school shooter type person rather terrorism; a killer who is (or may be) a Muslim is not the same as an Islamist killer.
 
egb_hibs said:
This is very much looking like your bullied loser school shooter type person rather terrorism; a killer who is (or may be) a Muslim is not the same as an Islamist killer.
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maybe not, but there is often a fine line between people who are definitely terrorists/fanatics..those who have not been/are not yet; but decide to answer the call to kill westerners...and finally those who are just nuts and want to make a name for themselves...in the end it amounts to much the same...dead people. Isis might not claim or might claim responsibility...but they will rejoice more Westerners are in coffins. We would be better trying to come sort of consensus about how to address the problem, both terrorist related and copycat related ...make it harder to access and smuggle guns...and depriving Isis of their money laundering


If this guy is the other side of any given coin...then it just makes the world an even scarier place because there seems to be nutters everywhere.
 
Davy said:
maybe not, but there is often a fine line between people who are definitely terrorists/fanatics..those who have not been/are not yet; but decide to answer the call to kill westerners...and finally those who are just nuts and want to make a name for themselves...in the end it amounts to much the same...dead people. Isis might not claim or might claim responsibility...but they will rejoice more Westerners are in coffins. We would be better trying to come sort of consensus about how to address the problem, both terrorist related and copycat related ...make it harder to access and smuggle guns...and depriving Isis of their money laundering


If this guy is the other side of any given coin...then it just makes the world an even scarier place because there seems to be nutters everywhere.
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If a guy is a typical dweeb school shooter, Islamism has feck all to do with it whatever ISIL do after the fact.
 
How does your average 18 year old get a hold of a gun and some ammo in Germany? He must have had some kind of ties to crime or terrorism.
 
egb_hibs said:
If a guy is a typical dweeb school shooter, Islamism has feck all to do with it whatever ISIL do after the fact.
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Wasn't the point I was trying to make. I was just observing (not just here on the bounce but in several conversations I have heard elsewhere) that the attacks are now becoming so frequent that some people are quick to dismiss or hide Isis connection, as if somehow it makes the attack seem less severe or threatening to us. These nutters believe in nothing but their own ideaology and are as much or more a threat to other Muslims as they are to Christian, Hindus or anyone else. Others try to link everything to Isis for whatever agenda. I personally don't give a sh** anymore who they all say they represent or not, Isis, anti Isis, theirselves and their warped minds..they are all murderers who commit such atrocities or call on others to do their work for them. All killing in this manner is awful and evil no matter where the individuals get their ideas. I have also said I do not believe we have any business running around the world dropping bombs on people we disagree with.

I guess we all beome sanitised to news...for example If you heard that 200 people died from civil unrest in Malaysia you might not even blink..this is what Europe is becoming like..we almost expect to hear of some killing on a daily basis...the next day it is forgotten and eyes turn elsewhere.

If it isn't Isis today, it will be tomorrow and that threat needs to be minimised, but it also needs recognised at every stage. As for all other attacks from crazy weird people, then we need to make sure it is darned hard for them to get access to a gun and in some instances where there is any real perceived risk then get them into a mental hospital and don't let them out until the risk is gone. Because one life lost to a maniac..any maniac is one too many.

I do recognise on the continent it is very very difficult to control the flow of guns.
 
[MENTION=2703]Davy[/MENTION] I fully agree with you on the blame-the-westers who tie themselves in knots to avoid looking the truth in the face. However, the flip side is that you become their mirror if you try and associate non-related things with the existential threat posed by Islamism. This looks to have more in common with dunblane than bataclan.

Denialism and hysteria are flip sides of the same ideological coin.
 
egb_hibs said:
[MENTION=2703]Davy[/MENTION] I fully agree with you on the blame-the-westers who tie themselves in knots to avoid looking the truth in the face. However, the flip side is that you become their mirror if you try and associate non-related things with the existential threat posed by Islamism. This looks to have more in common with dunblane than bataclan.

Denialism and hysteria are flip sides of the same ideological coin.
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yeh I get ya mate. I was prob more annoyed at the lack of awareness over the RAF incident to be honest. I get that this incident in Germany was totally unrelated to ISIS. Just feel everyone is getting so nervous or defensive that people are being scared to speak. I also get the fact that this lad obviously had something psychotically wrong with him...which begs the question, where the heck did he get a handgun so powerful. World truly is crazy place.
 
Wannabehibee said:
How is it odd? Perhaps he's no an Islamist terrorist? Perish the thought eh?
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it was that thought i was kinda perishing though never elucidated it clearly enuough in writing

islamist terrorist commiting murder is tae be expected nowadays whereas the random equally violent acts of other mentallly unstable folk for different political or personal reasons are still irregular occurrencies in europe

it was why i used the word 'odd' as the suspects profile i had just read hinted at another IS/daesh style attack but it didnae appear tae be the action of islamist combatants tae top themsels which was why i had replied including the post fae EGB on his reckoning to it aw as i was tending towards that notion myself
 
SuperTortolano said:
How does your average 18 year old get a hold of a gun and some ammo in Germany? He must have had some kind of ties to crime or terrorism.
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Germany has the fourth highest rate of legal gun ownership in the world according to BBC and guardian reports
 
Another attack this time with a machete. One woman dead and two people injured. Reports it was a 21 year old Syrian refugee. This keeps happening, it will get ugly fast.
 
Sadly, after the machete attack at tea time (which appears to have been a work related domestic gone very violently wrong) a bomber outside a club in Bavaria. Had tried to get into a gig at a music festival but was turned away. Detonated a suicide bomb injuring dozens, three critical, and killing himself. A Syrian who had been refused asylum according to the news reports.
 
There are still Zoomers on he internet who greet each new incident with 'how convenient' and mutter darkly about it suiting agendas based on 'keeping us in fear'. If these tinfoil heids knew the half of it (they invariably possess a willed ignorance of history and the realities of the world today) they'd be shiting bricks.
 
egb_hibs said:
There are still Zoomers on he internet who greet each new incident with 'how convenient' and mutter darkly about it suiting agendas based on 'keeping us in fear'. If these tinfoil heids knew the half of it (they invariably possess a willed ignorance of history and the realities of the world today) they'd be shiting bricks.
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Really?
 
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