Scotland - Stay With Us!

[7 Hills]

- David Bowie weighs into independence debate at Brits - YouTube

Can't believe Bowie did this. :-(

[video=youtube;tTyePL5JvVI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTyePL5JvVI[/video]

 

[barney]

- David Bowie weighs into independence debate at Brits - YouTube

Can't believe Bowie did this. :-(

Bauhaus - Ziggy Stardust [Bowie Cover] 16:9 Remastered HD 720p - YouTube

Disappointing from the main man.

 

[Jack]

That was at the Brits last year!

I couldn't get the Bauhaus vid to play so may be missing out on something.

 

[SirRiordan]

Bowie moved to new york decades ago. I appreciate what he did for music but ffs it's a bit rich a non scot ex pat wading in and telling us how to vote. What does he really know about contemporary britain/scotland? I think it was just a crowd pleasing statement tbh.Couldn't even make the statement himself, not even via satelite link. He got Kate Moss to do it.

 

[Shades]

Bowie has been quite irrelevant and has said nothing of note, whether set to music or not, since about 1982. In fact most of what he has done or said since then is quite embarrassing and would not have been heard by anyone unless he had collaborated with Nile Rodgers and asked Stevie Ray Vaughan to play a solo for him. Even Lulu bettered one of his songs.

 

[egb_hibs]

That was at the Brits last year!

I couldn't get the Bauhaus vid to play so may be missing out on something.

Missing out on a great cover version

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Bowie has been quite irrelevant and has said nothing of note, whether set to music or not, since about 1982. In fact most of what he has done or said since then is quite embarrassing and would not have been heard by anyone unless he had collaborated with Nile Rodgers and asked Stevie Ray Vaughan to play a solo for him. Even Lulu bettered one of his songs.

Quite embarrassing before that too, did he not once greet fans with a seig heil? Like most pop stars, a fandan

 

[Shades]

Missing out on a great cover version- - - Updated - - -Quite embarrassing before that too, did he not once greet fans with a seig heil? Like most pop stars, a fandan

It's rumoured. I'd guess it would have been a play to the gallery in any case. He's always been more "look at me" rather than "listen to me".

 

[HaarlemShuffler]

It's rumoured. I'd guess it would have been a play to the gallery in any case. He's always been more "look at me" rather than "listen to me".

Think you'll find you're slagging off a brilliant songsmith who brought new combinations of chords to pop, not to mention singing about subjects that if nothing else at least caught the imagination, a lot more than could be said of the tepid lyrics of most of the seventies pop hits.

And I hadnae even mentioned 'production'.

 

[7 Hills]

That was at the Brits last year!

I couldn't get the Bauhaus vid to play so may be missing out on something.

This year. :cry

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Missing out on a great cover version

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Quite embarrassing before that too, did he not once greet fans with a seig heil? Like most pop stars, a fandan

I'd heard this and it was yet another thing that put me off the MainMan. But if you Google "Bowie Nazi Salute" images, whilst he looks a bit Teutonic with his bleached blond hair, he is obviously just waving to fans from the back of an open topped car. :smug:

[video=youtube;O59CD81UAzw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O59CD81UAzw[/video]

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I was soooooo devastated by Bowie's support for the union! When I was a kid in 1972, he scored a hit with a re-release of "Space Oddity". I asked my Mum, "Why is that Spaceman on Top of the Pops every week?" She said - "Because he's Number One, Son!"

[video=youtube;D67kmFzSh_o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D67kmFzSh_o[/video]

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That was at the Brits last year!

I couldn't get the Bauhaus vid to play so may be missing out on something.

Yep - you're missing out!

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Bowie - I LOVE you. But the only thing I ever got from you, was SORROW!

[video=youtube;292W2cF6_W4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=292W2cF6_W4[/video]

 

[Shades]

Think you'll find you're slagging off a brilliant songsmith who brought new combinations of chords to pop, not to mention singing about subjects that if nothing else at least caught the imagination, a lot more than could be said of the tepid lyrics of most of the seventies pop hits.And I hadnae even mentioned 'production'.

Only my opinion. He didn't bring new combinations of chords to pop, though, I'll say that much.

 

[Jack]

This year. :cry

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OK, this year.

If a week is a long time in politics, February, phew, yonks n yonks ago :-)

 

[Two Headed Boy]

Well, if the opinions of formerly iconic pop stars who are still doing the rounds counts for anything....

Morrissey says Scotland should leave the United Kingdumb

[video=youtube_share;i4EUQReXNdY]http://youtu.be/i4EUQReXNdY[/video]

 

[Forzahibs]

Not sure why anyone asks so called singers for their opinions , i even saw Michelle McManus with a yes thing the other day

 

[Chester Perry]

Bowie couldnt make his mind up if he liked Mantovani or "solids" so how can he be trusted to make his mind up over this.

Chuck D says Aye, even though he did a song called No.

[video=youtube;8PaoLy7PHwk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PaoLy7PHwk[/video]

 

[Fritz]

Not sure why anyone asks so called singers for their opinions , i even saw Michelle McManus with a yes thing the other day

She was maybe just replying to someone that shouted at her from across the street if she wanted a tray of pies.

 

[Greenmachine]

He was only expressing a short worded personal opinion via Kate Moss from a stage, don't quite understand what the fuss was all about

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Bowie has been quite irrelevant and has said nothing of note, whether set to music or not, since about 1982. In fact most of what he has done or said since then is quite embarrassing and would not have been heard by anyone unless he had collaborated with Nile Rodgers and asked Stevie Ray Vaughan to play a solo for him. Even Lulu bettered one of his songs.

Everyone has their own tastes...I wouldn't say I'm a huge fan, but IMO there hasn't been a more influential and innovative pop/rock artist in the last 45 years.

 

[Dub]

That was at the Brits last year!

I couldn't get the Bauhaus vid to play so may be missing out on something.

Think of the original, then imagine a shit representation of that original and you are more than halfway there Jack.

 

[barney]

Diamond Dogs......a masterpiece.

That is all.

:worthy

 

[Dub]

Diamond Dogs......a masterpiece.

That is all.

:worthy

This aint rock and roll, this is genocide :smoke:

 

[egb_hibs]

:hmmm

 

[Doc Shrink]

Not sure why anyone asks so called singers for their opinions , i even saw Michelle McManus with a yes thing the other day

 

[Stanton Spence]

It's been said that in the 78 referendum that one reason for the no vote going through was ally mcloud fault so going by that logic I'm going to blame bowie if this one goes the same way???
What a load of nonsense!!!! Come on team Scotland time to make history

 

[Westside Green]

It's been said that in the 78 referendum that one reason for the no vote going through was ally mcloud fault so going by that logic I'm going to blame bowie if this one goes the same way???
What a load of nonsense!!!! Come on team Scotland time to make history

It was a the 40% rule which scuppered the 1979 vote. For years I thought that was an independence vote but it was only a devolution vote.

 

[Stanton Spence]

It was a the 40% rule which scuppered the 1979 vote. For years I thought that was an independence vote but it was only a devolution vote.

Lol so did I WG mate and I'm also wrong with the year giving that the world cup that got blamed was 78
Every day is a school day as they say
Cheers for clearing that up
I was just trying to say that music stars actors etc are all entitled to an opinion like everyone else but I don't think it will really make a huge impact on the outcome

 

[Kurt]

It was a the 40% rule which scuppered the 1979 vote. For years I thought that was an independence vote but it was only a devolution vote.

Whats the Royal High used for now?

 

[Hampden_Hibby]

What does he really know about contemporary britain/scotland? I think it was just a crowd pleasing statement tbh.

He's got previous. Check out the start of the Reality Tour DVD where he shouts "tiocfaidh ar la" at a Dublin audience. I think Mr Bowie is a bit confused about what parts of the UK he wishes to stay or go.

And on the subject of confused has-beens, Paul McCartney has been adding his tuppence worth too. His open letter urging us to vote No included the line 'What unites us is much greater than what divides us. Let's stay together. Still want to "Give Ireland Back To The Irish" Paul?

 

[barney]

Bowie has been quite irrelevant and has said nothing of note, whether set to music or not, since about 1982. In fact most of what he has done or said since then is quite embarrassing and would not have been heard by anyone unless he had collaborated with Nile Rodgers and asked Stevie Ray Vaughan to play a solo for him. Even Lulu bettered one of his songs.

Have you listened to any of his recent stuff?

:hmmm

 

[7 Hills]

Think of the original, then imagine a shit representation of that original and you are more than halfway there Jack.

Much prefer the original myself too, but I thought that (in the context of my original post), in the aftermath of Bowie's "stay with us" plea, it was better to bitch about his fans and ponder on crushing his sweet hands in the third person. :rap:

 

[HenryLB]

Jesus wept. If I was allowed to vote (I'm not; a decade in Wales makes me legally Welsh;

That is an odd aspect of this. Or an interesting one anyway. My Mrs is definitely Scottish - born Edinburgh, parents born Edinburgh, grandparents 3/4 Edinburgh, the other one Irish - yet she can't vote.

My kids are Scottish by blood if that's a thing. My granny was from Edinburgh also, although born in India. So they're about 5/8 Scottish.

Has Scottishness been reinvented as a purely geographic entity? Is it now just a localised reaction to neoliberalism? I don't have a problem with that. But if I'm honest it seems kind of glib and convenient.

 

[Kurt]

That is an odd aspect of this. Or an interesting one anyway. My Mrs is definitely Scottish - born Edinburgh, parents born Edinburgh, grandparents 3/4 Edinburgh, the other one Irish - yet she can't vote. My kids are Scottish by blood if that's a thing. My granny was from Edinburgh also, although born in India. So they're about 5/8 Scottish.Has Scottishness been reinvented as a purely geographic entity? Is it now just a localised reaction to neoliberalism? I don't have a problem with that. But if I'm honest it seems kind of glib and convenient.

Worlds full of Scots. People have been leaving for hundreds of years. Not sure how that is captured by a voting system unless they allow dual nationality if Scotland separates.

 

[RahamGrix]

Can either of you two define 'Londonness' for me as my neighbour spent the first 38 years of his life there before moving to Edinburgh 6 years ago.

He has no problem with not getting to vote for the London mayor.

Dual citizenship ? All covered on page 272 of the white paper.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk 2

 

[hibadelic]

If I was allowed to vote (I'm not; a decade in Wales makes me legally Welsh; despite being born in Edinburgh and having grown up in Strathaven; and having lived in both Bearsden and Leith as an adult)

Legally Welsh? I've never heard of that before.

The referendum is open to people who live in Scotland since the outcome affects them most. Wales will get a similar referendum in time, where I'm sure you'll get a vote. ;-)

That is an odd aspect of this. Or an interesting one anyway. My Mrs is definitely Scottish - born Edinburgh, parents born Edinburgh, grandparents 3/4 Edinburgh, the other one Irish - yet she can't vote.

My kids are Scottish by blood if that's a thing. My granny was from Edinburgh also, although born in India. So they're about 5/8 Scottish.

Has Scottishness been reinvented as a purely geographic entity? Is it now just a localised reaction to neoliberalism? I don't have a problem with that. But if I'm honest it seems kind of glib and convenient.

No. Is there a country in the world who lets non-citizens vote? Since Scots are currently UK citizens, they had to find another way to identify Scottish citizens and this is not only the simplest but the fairest.

 

[Kurt]

Can either of you two define 'Londonness' for me as my neighbour spent the first 38 years of his life there before moving to Edinburgh 6 years ago.He has no problem with not getting to vote for the London mayor.Dual citizenship ? All covered on page 272 of the white paper.Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk 2

To be clear, I have no objection to not having a vote and am aware of the statements including those from the UK regarding dual citizenship being available. However, will those holding Scottish citizenship but living abroad be able to vote in subsequent Scottish elections as the French can. Will they still have to account for tax as non-doms to Scotland? (Genuine question)

 

[HenryLB]

Can either of you two define 'Londonness' for me as my neighbour spent the first 38 years of his life there before moving to Edinburgh 6 years ago.

He has no problem with not getting to vote for the London mayor.

Dual citizenship ? All covered on page 272 of the white paper.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk 2

I can't define London-ness, but I guess that's kind of the point. Independence would imply an attempt to define Scottishness, at least to the extent that it's different to English-ness. But if that's just a quality created by living there then it seems a bit odd.

I'm not seeking to imply that this diminishes the authority of the vote btw. I'm not sure how else they could have done it.

 

[Gareth]

To be clear, I have no objection to not having a vote and am aware of the statements including those from the UK regarding dual citizenship being available. However, will those holding Scottish citizenship but living abroad be able to vote in subsequent Scottish elections as the French can. Will they still have to account for tax as non-doms to Scotland? (Genuine question)

I'd imagine it would be similar to Scottish elections now, you have to be ordinarily resident. In terms of a purely democratic argument its the only sensible approach. Why should people living outside of a political entity be able to determine the political direction of that entity, unless they are only away for a short time, in which case it changes. Basic rule of thumb should/will be the ordinarily resident test alongside, if you are allowed to vote in the general elections (or equivalent) in the country you live in (whether you op to or not), you shouldn't have the right to vote here, otherwise you effectively have two votes.

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I can't define London-ness, but I guess that's kind of the point. Independence would imply an attempt to define Scottishness, at least to the extent that it's different to English-ness. But if that's just a quality created by living there then it seems a bit odd.

I'm not seeking to imply that this diminishes the authority of the vote btw. I'm not sure how else they could have done it.

I think thats why the focus has been people living in Scotland rather than Scottish people. You then avoid the ness issues you mention.
Welcome back by the way

 

[HenryLB]

No. Is there a country in the world who lets non-citizens vote? Since Scots are currently UK citizens, they had to find another way to identify Scottish citizens and this is not only the simplest but the fairest.

There are lots of countries that allow expats to vote. Which is what, for example, my wife would be if Scotland had citizens in the manner that you are implying.

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I think thats why the focus has been people living in Scotland rather than Scottish people. You then avoid the ness issues you mention.
Welcome back by the way

Fair point. I guess it does help avoid it getting all blood and tartan (or the reverse, whatever that is!)

And thank you - it's good to be back. :rascal:

 

[egb_hibs]

I'm going to seize the rare opportunity to agree with Gareth.
I don't understand why expats would have a vote as policy affects residents.

That said never having been in an expat
situation I will confess that I don't know if there are
residual matters in the 'homeland' that affect you (eg pensions) which could change my opinion if they were
sufficiently material

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The expat question could also become ridiculous - if Kurt relocated to Paris, would he the be both a Scottish and English expat?

 

[Dub]

Legally Welsh? I've never heard of that before.

The referendum is open to people who live in Scotland since the outcome affects them most. Wales will get a similar referendum in time, where I'm sure you'll get a vote. ;-)



No. Is there a country in the world who lets non-citizens vote? Since Scots are currently UK citizens, they had to find another way to identify Scottish citizens and this is not only the simplest but the fairest.

Remember the movie "legally blonde"? Well, this is much the same except with more lager involved

I'm going to seize the rare opportunity to agree with Gareth.
I don't understand why expats would have a vote as policy affects residents.

That said never having been in an expat
situation I will confess that I don't know if there are
residual matters in the 'homeland' that affect you (eg pensions) which could change my opinion if they were
sufficiently material

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The expat question could also become ridiculous - if Kurt relocated to Paris, would he the be both a Scottish and English expat?

I've been having this argument with a hun mate [the hunnism isnt relevent except that like many huns he is voting no]. His position is that if every Scottish person isnt allowed to vote then it isnt a proper referendum. He also stated that 'foreigners' who have been in the country 'for five minutes' shouldnt get to vote as they might vote for independence and then bugger off home again.

Now we both know this is a completely ridiculous argument and convincing him he was so far removed from reality with his proposal was difficult particularly as he couldn't define what his 'five minutes' actually meant. He wouldnt budge on that so I got some of the locals in to the debate 1 x New Zealander, 1 x Englisher, 2 x South African and 2 x polish all of whom live, work and pay taxes in Scotland and all of them are on the voters roll. They took offence at his comments and quite rightly so and he admitted that he perhaps hadnt thought it through but was still convinced that every Scot [defined as someone born in Scotland but not necessary domiciled here] should get a vote as it was their country. I asked him for an estimate of time required to;

a) Identify all of these people who are dispersed throughout the world
b) get them all to register for a postal ballot
c) send them the ballot paper, and finally
d) be able to count the millions of postal votes when they came in assuming anyone bothered to send it in in the first place.

He eventually succumbed to my relentless argument and admittted the idea was a bad one. It might have seemed like a waste of a couple of hours but I couldnt stand there and let him off with that kind of nonsense.

 

[Kurt]

There are lots of countries that allow expats to vote. Which is what, for example, my wife would be if Scotland had citizens in the manner that you are implying.- - - Updated - - -Fair point. I guess it does help avoid it getting all blood and tartan (or the reverse, whatever that is!)And thank you - it's good to be back. :rascal:

French folk living abroad can vote in the presidential elections. London, by population of French, is the fifth biggest city on the presidsential justings and always gets a visit from the candidates.I think there's around 400,000 Scots here but that must be pretty loosely defined.

 

[Ice Warrier]

I was born in Scotland to Scottish parents and grandparents. Just happened that my Dad came to England with his work. So I don't get to vote on independence but I see I'll automatically be considered a Scottish Citizen from day one of an Independent Scotland.

Since I'm not considered Scottish enough to be allowed to vote on the country's future why is assumed that I'd automatically want to be considered a Scottish citizen after independence?