politics in scotland...yet again...the polarisation and how will it end

[Kenny]

is there any real movement in scotland? will there be.

as i see it, the SNP take up the lions share of the 45%, labour and conservative fight it out for remaining 55%

polls and voting suggests this probably about right.

Is the SNP cant break the 45% with brexit looming then will they ever....a vote share

the scottish tories seem to have swallowed up the scoLab unionist vote and scolab don't know what to do. the scottish tories seem to miss any of the criticism of the uk tories....which is very damn impressive - i have no idea how davidson does it but it stunning how nothing sticks to her.

Scottish labour under leonard don't seem to have changed at all, lots of attacking the SNP, but with increasingly weak looking leadership. And who is their beef with, where are their votes? lots of attacking the SNP and arguably it works (GE results) but in reality their vote share of 20% to 30% is about right....but unionist voters should be Labours bread and butter but the tories are hoovering them up?

With our first vote free year in 5 years (at this point in time at least) , what will change in 2018...the entrenchment is scottish politics is really disheartening...vote shares seems about right, and unwavering

for reference the 2017 vote shares

Popular vote
SNP 36.9%
Conservative 28.6%
Labour 27.1%
Liberal Democrats 6.8%
Greens 0.2%
UKIP 0.2%
Other 0.2%

 

[greencol]

is there any real movement in scotland? will there be.

as i see it, the SNP take up the lions share of the 45%, labour and conservative fight it out for remaining 55%

polls and voting suggests this probably about right.

Is the SNP cant break the 45% with brexit looming then will they ever....a vote share

the scottish tories seem to have swallowed up the scoLab unionist vote and scolab don't know what to do. the scottish tories seem to miss any of the criticism of the uk tories....which is very damn impressive - i have no idea how davidson does it but it stunning how nothing sticks to her.

Scottish labour under leonard don't seem to have changed at all, lots of attacking the SNP, but with increasingly weak looking leadership. And who is their beef with, where are their votes? lots of attacking the SNP and arguably it works (GE results) but in reality their vote share of 20% to 30% is about right....but unionist voters should be Labours bread and butter but the tories are hoovering them up?

With our first vote free year in 5 years (at this point in time at least) , what will change in 2018...the entrenchment is scottish politics is really disheartening...vote shares seems about right, and unwavering

for reference the 2017 vote shares

Popular vote
SNP 36.9%
Conservative 28.6%
Labour 27.1%
Liberal Democrats 6.8%
Greens 0.2%
UKIP 0.2%
Other 0.2%

The GE result was a unionist stitch up. Vote for the unionist candidate, regardless of party. I know of 4 labour voters here (hardly a labour stronghold!)who voted tory.

But, in answer to your question I don't know what has to happen to cause any movement one way or t'other on the political front in Scotland.

If voters want to continue being ruled by a central government that simply doesn't give a fuck about Scotland, then we're fucked.

Right royally fucked.

 

[gun ainm]

The GE result was a unionist stitch up. Vote for the unionist candidate, regardless of party. I know of 4 labour voters here (hardly a labour stronghold!)who voted tory.

But, in answer to your question I don't know what has to happen to cause any movement one way or t'other on the political front in Scotland.

If voters want to continue being ruled by a central government that simply doesn't give a $#@! about Scotland, then we're $#@!ed.

Right royally $#@!ed.

I think we need to wait and see what happens with the brexit deal before we're likely to see any significant movement in voting intention - people have retreated into their bunkers and are waiting to see. If after 3 months of the deal's terms being known we are still at this impasse then I think we will need a rethink and possibly/probably a compromise between indy and status quo.

 

[Kenny]

I think we need to wait and see what happens with the brexit deal before we're likely to see any significant movement in voting intention - people have retreated into their bunkers and are waiting to see. If after 3 months of the deal's terms being known we are still at this impasse then I think we will need a rethink and possibly/probably a compromise between indy and status quo.

what would/could change.

scoTories say they are pro single market but wont rock the boat for may (beyond the odd sound bite)
scoLab say they want single market but wont dare side with the SNP for fear of losing more unionist votes to the more "staunch" tories
SNP want to stay in the EU but cant use the threat of indy2 as there is no appetite for it and if anything it positively turns voters off, leaving SNP totally toothless.

 

[gun ainm]

what would/could change.

scoTories say they are pro single market but wont rock the boat for may (beyond the odd sound bite)
scoLab say they want single market but wont dare side with the SNP for fear of losing more unionist votes to the more "staunch" tories
SNP want to stay in the EU but cant use the threat of indy2 as there is no appetite for it and if anything it positively turns voters off, leaving SNP totally toothless.

these are their positions for the now (i.e. during negotiation). Post an agreed deal I'd imagine they'd have to get on with it. Bad deal is possibly a spark to increase indy vote share but not a given. good deal (however unlikely) I think strengthens union.

as I said we'll only move on from brexit once we see how the land lies (still?).

 

[Smurf]

The SNP are a competent on the surface administration at Holyrood but they've done sweet fuck all to advance the Yes case IMHO since 2014. I've become a Yes recently because I'm exasperated by the UK.

 

[O'Driscoll]

I've largely stayed away from the shed of late, seems to me an echo chamber! however, politics in Scotland will only move forward when the SNP and Labour stop fighting like 2 old men in a ditch. As long as the constitution remains the main prism by which we argue, we'll never move on. If the mainstream in Scotland accepts shared socialist/social democrat values and starts form this position (viewing independence as a completely seperate entity) then maybe it wouldn't be so easy for the tories and their paymasters in business to take the piss

 

[Greenmachine]

I think when the full economic implications of the disaster of Brexit become clear and more significantly start to affect people's standard of living and job security, then there will be an increase in support for independence. I can see Labour in Scotland eventually going this way as well.

 

[Jack]

I think when the full economic implications of the disaster of Brexit become clear and more significantly start to affect people's standard of living and job security, then there will be an increase in support for independence. I can see Labour in Scotland eventually going this way as well.

I agree. I think once people start to appreciate the financial disaster, business and personal, that's happening now and only going to get worse the more people will turn to wanting to stay in the EU and the only way that can happen is an independent Scotland.

I'd like to see Scottish Labour moving even to a neutral stance, take on the Torys for what they are, calling them out but I can't see it. UK Labour and the Scottish branch seem more intransigent and English than ever!

 

[Smurf]

I think when the full economic implications of the disaster of Brexit become clear and more significantly start to affect people's standard of living and job security, then there will be an increase in support for independence. I can see Labour in Scotland eventually going this way as well.

Why do you think it'll be a disaster?

 

[southfieldhibby]

I think The SNP have done about as reasonable a job as possible given the restrictions they work within. They could have done better in other areas like education, but it would have been to the detriment to other areas.

They seem to be capable of running big ticket projects on time and in budget within those restrictions, they'll never keep everyone happy and they do seem to plough the middle ground too much, but as administrators they're successful if not a wee bit too bland. Would be interested to see how they'd do with full fiscal autonomy over a decade or so.

As for Labour in Scotland, they despise The SNP more than anything. No way are they all anti indy, but they're most certainly anti SNP.

 

[HenryLB]

One thing I find odd is how brexit hasn't been the molotov cocktail the SNP - and to be fair I agreed - thought it would be. Even people who were quite staunch remainers seem to be saying, ah well, get on with it then.

Just anecdotally but down here and also among my (mostly remain) scottish in-laws very few have an appetite to do anything major to 'stop brexit', certainly nothing as big as leaving the UK. It feels like everyone's a bit tired of upheaval, and going back on it all, having another brexit referendum, or having indyref2 are all upheaval to the max. Just seems like there's a weariness about everyone, like they've had enough of it all for a while.

Being pro EU but anti UK also throws up some interesting logical and economic paradoxes so I wonder if people are washing up against that a bit.

 

[hibadelic]

Why do you think it'll be a disaster?

Britain already has the lowest economic growth in the EU and we haven’t even left yet. No non-EU countries have expressed any interest in trade deals and there doesn’t appear to be any solid plan for what to do once we leave anyway.

London is fecked as a financial centre and property prices have flatlined since money from abroad has dried up. Given the UK economy is hopelessly London centric, this is not good.

The immigrant influx which have helped keep the economy going for years has also declined. A major problem for many industries, not just fruit picking ;-)

Any reason you think it might not be a disaster?

Edit: I should have just said “Look at the shower of assclowns running the show.”

 

[HenryLB]

Britain already has the lowest economic growth in the EU and we haven’t even left yet. No non-EU countries have expressed any interest in trade deals and there doesn’t appear to be any solid plan for what to do once we leave anyway.

London is fecked as a financial centre and property prices have flatlined since money from abroad has dried up. Given the UK economy is hopelessly London centric, this is not good.

The immigrant influx which have helped keep the economy going for years has also declined. A major problem for many industries, not just fruit picking ;-)

Any reason you think it might not be a disaster?

Edit: I should have just said “Look at the shower of assclowns running the show.”

Agree with all that, although I actually think some of the effects on London are likely to be overall beneficial, especially given its overweighting in the UK economy.

Something that I haven't seen in the media much at all is just how quickly AI and automisation is going to impact on the economy, and how brexit is likely to affect that. (I think badly, some of the people I speak to think it might be net positive.)

You see articles about this, and it's usually seen as something fairly distant. But for example a guy I know is involved in the sale of a large-ish company and the accountancy firm they are using, one of the big four, is apparently quietly talking about shedding 50-70 per cent of its employees within ten years. And those are the kind of positions usually thought to be initially immune to automisation.

If this kind of thing happens then brexit is going to be a tiny prequel to a societal revolution, I suspect.

 

[hibadelic]

Agree with all that, although I actually think some of the effects on London are likely to be overall beneficial, especially given its overweighting in the UK economy.

Something that I haven't seen in the media much at all is just how quickly AI and automisation is going to impact on the economy, and how brexit is likely to affect that. (I think badly, some of the people I speak to think it might be net positive.)

You see articles about this, and it's usually seen as something fairly distant. But for example a guy I know is involved in the sale of a large-ish company and the accountancy firm they are using, one of the big four, is apparently quietly talking about shedding 50-70 per cent of its employees within ten years. And those are the kind of positions usually thought to be initially immune to automisation.

If this kind of thing happens then brexit is going to be a tiny prequel to a societal revolution, I suspect.

I’m not really surprised that an accountancy firm would be likely to shed a lot of jobs given the growth of accountancy software. HR is much the same in that a lot of the basic tasks are now software based.

I agree with your point though. It’s not necessarily AI or even machine learning, it’s more basic automation which replacing workers. Traditional industries moving online.

On Brexit, Is there a chance that the reshaping of the U.K. economy will mean it becomes less London centric? I suspect even the government don’t know, and that’s just another reason to presume Brexit is a disaster.

 

[HenryLB]

I’m not really surprised that an accountancy firm would be likely to shed a lot of jobs given the growth of accountancy software. HR is much the same in that a lot of the basic tasks are now software based.

I agree with your point though. It’s not necessarily AI or even machine learning, it’s more basic automation which replacing workers. Traditional industries moving online.

His contention was that the automation will do for the blue-collar jobs but what people haven't got to grips with is how quickly AI (I use the terms broadly, obviously, I don't know much about the inner workings!) can do loads of the things that people like junior and mid-ranking solicitors and accountants have traditionally done.

I must admit I don't really know what tasks those guys do actually perform. He was basically saying they do donkey work research allied to sifting material - previously computers could do the former and look for stuff but not weigh its importance very well. Now they can.

On Brexit, Is there a chance that the reshaping of the U.K. economy will mean it becomes less London centric? I suspect even the government don’t know, and that’s just another reason to presume Brexit is a disaster.

Any benefits will certainly be inadvertently achieved, put it that way! But I do think a bit of a brake on London is in very general terms 'a good thing'. At the very least the pervasive sense of inertia and complacence has disappeared.

 

[hibadelic]

His contention was that the automation will do for the blue-collar jobs but what people haven't got to grips with is how quickly AI (I use the terms broadly, obviously, I don't know much about the inner workings!) can do loads of the things that people like junior and mid-ranking solicitors and accountants have traditionally done.

I must admit I don't really know what tasks those guys do actually perform. He was basically saying they do donkey work research allied to sifting material - previously computers could do the former and look for stuff but not weigh its importance very well. Now they can.



Any benefits will certainly be inadvertently achieved, put it that way! But I do think a bit of a brake on London is in very general terms 'a good thing'. At the very least the pervasive sense of inertia and complacence has disappeared.

Interesting to hear that the effects of Brexit are noticeable in London. If I’m being honest I don’t think I’ve noticed any ill effects so far here although I’m sure they exist.

 

[hibadelic]

is there any real movement in scotland? will there be.

as i see it, the SNP take up the lions share of the 45%, labour and conservative fight it out for remaining 55%

polls and voting suggests this probably about right.

Is the SNP cant break the 45% with brexit looming then will they ever....a vote share

the scottish tories seem to have swallowed up the scoLab unionist vote and scolab don't know what to do. the scottish tories seem to miss any of the criticism of the uk tories....which is very damn impressive - i have no idea how davidson does it but it stunning how nothing sticks to her.

Scottish labour under leonard don't seem to have changed at all, lots of attacking the SNP, but with increasingly weak looking leadership. And who is their beef with, where are their votes? lots of attacking the SNP and arguably it works (GE results) but in reality their vote share of 20% to 30% is about right....but unionist voters should be Labours bread and butter but the tories are hoovering them up?

With our first vote free year in 5 years (at this point in time at least) , what will change in 2018...the entrenchment is scottish politics is really disheartening...vote shares seems about right, and unwavering

for reference the 2017 vote shares

Popular vote
SNP 36.9%
Conservative 28.6%
Labour 27.1%
Liberal Democrats 6.8%
Greens 0.2%
UKIP 0.2%
Other 0.2%

I noticed Labour’s leader was making political capital out of some poor guy who died due to A&E being fecked due to a massive increase in flu cases this year. I find that a bit distasteful to be honest but symptomatic of Labour’s ‘criticise the SNP at all costs’ policy.

Not sure where it’ll all end up but I agree it’s an unhealthy state of limbo.

 

[southfieldhibby]

I noticed Labour’s leader was making political capital out of some poor guy who died due to A&E being fecked due to a massive increase in flu cases this year. I find that a bit distasteful to be honest but symptomatic of Labour’s ‘criticise the SNP at all costs’ policy.

Not sure where it’ll all end up but I agree it’s an unhealthy state of limbo.

Turn that around and if The SNP had done the same to highlight struggling NHS in England there would be quite the media reaction.

 

[Kenny]

I noticed Labour’s leader was making political capital out of some poor guy who died due to A&E being fecked due to a massive increase in flu cases this year. I find that a bit distasteful to be honest but symptomatic of Labour’s ‘criticise the SNP at all costs’ policy.

Not sure where it’ll all end up but I agree it’s an unhealthy state of limbo.

Turn that around and if The SNP had done the same to highlight struggling NHS in England there would be quite the media reaction.

Does that work to "win back voters", does the constant offensive work...is it probing to find the issue to champion, to find the vote winner?

It doesn't seem like that. It appears that everything should be constantly attacked irrespective of the angle.

...but this is the entrenchment I was talking about in the OP? can it ever change.

the scotGovt brexit impact assessment yesterday was exactly the same. independent assessment rubbished by the tories and declared as move towards indyref2, repeated in parrot fashion by mundell then various other MPs and MSPs.

nothing will change any time soon

 

[gun ainm]

His contention was that the automation will do for the blue-collar jobs but what people haven't got to grips with is how quickly AI (I use the terms broadly, obviously, I don't know much about the inner workings!) can do loads of the things that people like junior and mid-ranking solicitors and accountants have traditionally done.

I must admit I don't really know what tasks those guys do actually perform. He was basically saying they do donkey work research allied to sifting material - previously computers could do the former and look for stuff but not weigh its importance very well. Now they can.

Any benefits will certainly be inadvertently achieved, put it that way! But I do think a bit of a brake on London is in very general terms 'a good thing'. At the very least the pervasive sense of inertia and complacence has disappeared.

this was raised in our discussion on Paul Mason's book - post capitalism. Is both terrifying and liberating depending on what we do in response (as a society). it makes obvious the central point in that our current economic system we apply (capitalism for short) will no longer be fit for purpose. The difficult bit is what to replace it with.

 

[Jack]

I noticed Labour’s leader was making political capital out of some poor guy who died due to A&E being fecked due to a massive increase in flu cases this year. I find that a bit distasteful to be honest but symptomatic of Labour’s ‘criticise the SNP at all costs’ policy.

Not sure where it’ll all end up but I agree it’s an unhealthy state of limbo.

Was this the Scottish branch leader?

Labour hardly have any cause for criticism given the piss poor record they have in Wales.

 

[HenryLB]

Interesting to hear that the effects of Brexit are noticeable in London. If I’m being honest I don’t think I’ve noticed any ill effects so far here although I’m sure they exist.

The property market in London is stagnant (which I think you mentioned). I guess it has to do with brexit although I'm not certain. Anecdotally I know of quite a few people leaving, returning to EU countries which on a personal level is a shame.

What I really meant was that the feeling that everything is just dandy has evaporated, and not just in London. You mentioned that the country relied on finance and therefore the City and, while what could happen to revenues is pretty alarming, I think a bit of a shake of the jar isn't a bad thing as in some ways everyone had become a bit complacent and over reliant.

- - - Updated - - -

this was raised in our discussion on Paul Mason's book - post capitalism. Is both terrifying and liberating depending on what we do in response (as a society). it makes obvious the central point in that our current economic system we apply (capitalism for short) will no longer be fit for purpose. The difficult bit is what to replace it with.

Fully-automated luxury communism.

 

[gun ainm]

Fully-automated luxury communism.

like star trek? no a bad idea

 

[HenryLB]

like star trek? no a bad idea

It's not science fiction either - have a look here.

In my darker moments I wonder how many people the proponents of this will kill before they realise it doesn't work or are stopped by somebody else.

 

[Dub]

It's not science fiction either - have a look here.

In my darker moments I wonder how many people the proponents of this will kill before they realise it doesn't work or are stopped by somebody else.

That looks like an interesting read which I will do later. In the meantime it reminds me that Hazel O'Connor wasn't far wrong

[video=youtube;fBkvcQEGq9k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBkvcQEGq9k[/video]

 

[HenryLB]

That looks like an interesting read which I will do later. In the meantime it reminds me that Hazel O'Connor wasn't far wrong

Love it.

 

[Chris G Whyte]

I think we’ve reached an ugly point of entrenchment in Scottish politics, where one half wants to stick with the adversarial politics of Westminster and the other half wants to move toward the more mature democracies offered by continental Europe. This poisons Holyrood because it effectively means that it can’t fulfil the role that its electoral system was created to provide; a continual series of coalition governments that would largely stick to the centre ground as a result.

The problem, I think, is that all three major parties have to accept that the constitution will dominate Scottish politics until independence.

There can be no doubt that the SNP always have at least one eye on the prize, while Labour, Conservative and Liberal Democrat MSPs know that they can’t shove the genie back in the bottle. Brexit didn’t give the SNP the “bounce” they expected for independence, but that’s because Scotland still knows next to nothing about it and, therefore, can’t judge it. It’s debateable whether we’ll ever be allowed to judge it fairly, given the woeful condition of the fourth estate, and it’s hard to square those who want an independent Scotland free from the European Union. That said, it’s worth noting that the No campaign has been in overdrive since the Brexit result (like the latest pish about the “UK single market” that doesn’t exist) and there’s been no Yes campaign to counteract it. Should that change, it’s likely the numbers will.

The General Election really only saw a reordering of the Unionist vote. The SNP lost 13% of their vote share, but it was the Scottish Conservatives who hoovered up almost all of them – Labour achieved absolutely nothing according to vote share but, due to the vagaries of FPTP and the Conservative impact on SNP constituencies, picked up an additional six seats. The Liberal Democrats performed the miracle of tripling their seats, despite losing votes (both in number, and in share).

For my money, if there’s to be any change, then it rests on the fate of the Labour party.

The Liberal Democrats and Greens are irrelevant, and people know where the SNP and Conservatives stand on the constitution. Labour, as a party, cannot simply support one side or the other; they’d be playing second fiddle to either, and may also appear opportunistic and insincere. They keep arguing that they inhabit the middle ground of federalism/further devolution, but informed voters already know that they don’t. They stood against it during the Smith Commission, and voted against Full Fiscal Autonomy when it was brought before parliament. There’s also a real problem with image, which isn’t helped by the likes of Leonard, Kelly and Baillie on the front bench. Sturgeon and Davidson, whatever else you think of them, are salespeople who get voters on side. It’s just that in the case of Sturgeon, she at least has competent politicians behind her like McKay or Swinney, while Davidson is stuck with idiots like “Queen’s Eleven” Murdo Fraser and “WATP” Adam Tomkins.

At this point, I’m not even sure a complete clear out of the Labour benches would be enough.

They’ve shown no contrition whatsoever for their past behaviour and have, instead, seemingly decided to double down on things like equal pay in Glasgow City Council, where they are 100% responsible for the discrepancy. Even when the SNP were bleeding on the floor in some constituencies throughout Scotland in the last General Election, Labour made no impact on the vote share whatsoever. That makes me think that, actually, the SNP are simply the inheritors of what used to be the Labour party in Scotland, and that’s what causes the tribal dislike that sees Labour cheering Conservative seat gains from the nats. Were a pro-family, pro-employee party to appear, that properly articulated its economic views and support for federalism, I think the last remaining vestiges of Labour support would melt away. I don’t see how you re-calibrate a party that thought sending an MSP to the jungle, or presenting Anas-fucking-Sarwar as a potential leader, was a good idea.

The amusing thing is that the SNP are, in many ways, just as two-faced as Blair’s Labour ever was.

There remains a right-wing cohort in the likes of Salmond and Ahmed-Sheikh that will ever be at political odds with the social democrats like Nicola Sturgeon. On the delivery of independence, which is surely only a matter of time, a lot of SNP politicians are likely to go their own way and will find themselves on opposition benches. Labour won’t be revitalized by the “radical left” because, almost to a man, the radical left is populated with fucking idiots like Stephen Paton and Angela Haggarty who, if they ever had to work in the real world, would understand why people’s eyes glaze over when cake-gender she-males start tweeting about land reform that you can vote for via Spotify – all while calling Donald Trump a ****.

Meh, I’m starting to babble endlessly so I’ll finish by saying this:

The political argument in Scotland will remain about independence, until independence is delivered. When that happens is up for debate, but I don’t think there’s a question hanging over “if” any more.

 

[southfieldhibby]

Video: SNP accused of Trump-like attack on critic in broadcast | HeraldScotland

'David Torrance is not the only person in the country with a beard and hipster glasses'

 

[Dub]

Video: SNP accused of Trump-like attack on critic in broadcast | HeraldScotland

'David Torrance is not the only person in the country with a beard and hipster glasses'

David Torrance who's raison d'etre is slating the SNP whines when he get's some back. The man is a tosser who overreacts when challenged. He's flounced off twitter more than once in the past swearing never to go back again only to reappear a day or two later. In short, the guy is a complete twat.

 

[Dub]

That SNP PPB is cringe worthy!

Whilst I havent seen it, any veiled digs at David Torrance shouldn't really be unexpected since he spends most of his time slating the SNP.

 

[Dub]

Dub, i didn't know who he was till i saw twitter going into meltdown. It was the acting and the fact that the boy laying into the SNP had a Scots posh accent, everyone else had a weegie accent. Cringey

I would expect a parody of Torrance to have that kind of accent because he has one.

 

[HenryLB]

I would expect a parody of Torrance to have that kind of accent because he has one.

It can't really be a parody of Torrance, surely? That would be amazingly niche.

 

[southfieldhibby]

It can't really be a parody of Torrance, surely? That would be amazingly niche.

I reckon it’s a piss take of David Mundell.

 

[Smurf]

Party Political Broadcasts are always terrible attempts. In this instance it was quite cheesy but reasonably effective in getting across it's message. I'm surprised a nobody journalist has been given the coverage he has.

 

[Dub]

It can't really be a parody of Torrance, surely? That would be amazingly niche.

I havent watched it so it could be a parody of Mundell as opposed to Torrance. Both equally valid targets. I'm not sure how niche it would be to parody Torrance though given he spends an inordinate amount of his time slating the SNP whether he has his facts right or not.

 

[Chris G Whyte]

I'm surprised a nobody journalist has been given the coverage he has.

To be honest, comments like this stress me out more than any number of shoddy broadcasts.

Torrance is not a journalist - neither is the likes of Daisley, Massie or Hague. They're political commentators with an axe to grind against independence and, therefore, its biggest political totem (the SNP). Every single piece these people write is an attack against the SNP, irrespective of whether or not it's justified, and they turn a never-ending blind-eye to unionist entities that do far worse.

Suggesting that the SNP are in government isn't a valid excuse. The same critical eye should be applied to those who want to be the government, no matter how laughable the suggestion.

But, some might ask, what's wrong with people being biased?

Nothing.

It just needs to be recognised for what it is, and not considered investigative journalism. It couldn't be further from actual analysis if it tried.

 

[Jack]

To be honest, comments like this stress me out more than any number of shoddy broadcasts.

Torrance is not a journalist - neither is the likes of Daisley, Massie or Hague. They're political commentators with an axe to grind against independence and, therefore, its biggest political totem (the SNP). Every single piece these people write is an attack against the SNP, irrespective of whether or not it's justified, and they turn a never-ending blind-eye to unionist entities that do far worse.

Suggesting that the SNP are in government isn't a valid excuse. The same critical eye should be applied to those who want to be the government, no matter how laughable the suggestion.

But, some might ask, what's wrong with people being biased?

Nothing.

It just needs to be recognised for what it is, and not considered investigative journalism. It couldn't be further from actual analysis if it tried.

It might be nippin' your heid but so many, less informed than you will be taken in, probably more by the old fashioned 'media is fair and there to inform' incantations than anything else.

If only the government down south was 'held to account' in a similar fashion. It even just held to account!

 

[HenryLB]

It might be nippin' your heid but so many, less informed than you will be taken in, probably more by the old fashioned 'media is fair and there to inform' incantations than anything else.

If only the government down south was 'held to account' in a similar fashion. It even just held to account!

You think that the UK government has escaped criticism? Do you live under a rock?

 

[Jack]

You think that the UK government has escaped criticism? Do you live under a rock?

I think they deserve a damn sight more given what they have been up to nationally.

And our Scottish Tory members voting en masse to scoop up powers for Westminster which should be devolved. 111 of them!!!

If it wasn't for the internet nobody would be aware of that. None of the media up here covered it.

That's to saying nothing of the Westminster sleaze that seems to disappear quicker than the snow.

Incidentally watching the UK news you'd be forgiven for thinking Scotland was in some sort of polar apocalypse rather than a couple of lorry drivers driving in conditions beyond their driving skills.