PBR

[Kurt]

not much discussed. more ni, internet tax, slashed budgets not mentioned in speech but the real budget will be after the election. my guesses 20% vat and 3-5% on basic and higher tax rates. cuts on corpy tax under tories.

 

[Green Sleeves]

not much discussed. more ni, internet tax, slashed budgets not mentioned in speech but the real budget will be after the election. my guesses 20% vat and 3-5% on basic and higher tax rates. cuts on corpy tax under tories.

It'll be slash and burn economics after the 2010 election irrespective of who gets in. The banking disaster orchestrated by Brown's mob has landed us in such an economic hole that it'll take ten years minimum to dig the UK out. Yet it wont be the banks who pay for this mess.

If Scots had enough nous we'd grab the independence referendum with both hands and get the hell out of the UK as soon as possible before the trillion pounds of public debt drags us down into the economic gutter with England.

The Bank of England, London-based banks, and the City of London are the black hole down which our wealth flows. The sooner Scotland has its own central bank, its own currency, and control over its own macro-economics the better off we'll be.

 

[Brainwrong]

It'll be slash and burn economics after the 2010 election irrespective of who gets in. The banking disaster orchestrated by Brown's mob has landed us in such an economic hole that it'll take ten years minimum to dig the UK out. Yet it wont be the banks who pay for this mess.

If Scots had enough nous we'd grab the independence referendum with both hands and get the hell out of the UK as soon as possible before the trillion pounds of public debt drags us down into the economic gutter with England.

The Bank of England, London-based banks, and the City of London are the black hole down which our wealth flows. The sooner Scotland has its own central bank, its own currency, and control over its own macro-economics the better off we'll be.

I'm not being obtuse, genuine question but was it not our main Scottish bank that Royally (geddit?) fucked things up for us?

Would we not be in the same mess anyway? (granted it'd be for less cash)

 

[Green Sleeves]

I'm not being obtuse, genuine question but was it not our main Scottish bank that Royally (geddit?) fucked things up for us?

Would we not be in the same mess anyway? (granted it'd be for less cash)

Not at all. RBS was a private British bank whose money supply, base interest rates, lending regulations, etc were framed by, or under the control of, the Westminster parliament and the Bank of England. London controls the macro-economics. Thats why the banks went belly up.

An independent Scottish state which controlled its own money supply and currency would determine its own success or failure. There's no guarantee either way. Just compare the financial state of Iceland versus Norway. It all depends on the choices a state makes.

At present we are not a state therefore not in a position to make any choices. Instead we are attached limpet-like to the UK govt policy and that of the Bank of England. If the pound goes under then we go down with the ship. Thats the worst possible situation to be in right now.

Its about time Alex Salmond and the SNP started fighting the economic case for independence properly instead of making concessions to Westminster with talk of "full fiscal autonomy" or 'devolution max' when these are nothing of the sort without a central bank, a currency, and the full range of economic powers which only come with being a fully-functioning independent state.

 

[Brainwrong]

Not at all. RBS was a private British bank whose money supply, base interest rates, lending regulations, etc were framed by, or under the control of, the Westminster parliament and the Bank of England. London controls the macro-economics. Thats why the banks went belly up.

An independent Scottish state which controlled its own money supply and currency would determine its own success or failure. There's no guarantee either way. Just compare the financial state of Iceland versus Norway. It all depends on the choices a state makes.

At present we are not a state therefore not in a position to make any choices. Instead we are attached limpet-like to the UK govt policy and that of the Bank of England. If the pound goes under then we go down with the ship. Thats the worst possible situation to be in right now.

Its about time Alex Salmond and the SNP started fighting the economic case for independence properly instead of making concessions to Westminster with talk of "full fiscal autonomy" or 'devolution max' when these are nothing of the sort without a central bank, a currency, and the full range of economic powers which only come with being a fully-functioning independent state.

Thanks for that.

Was it not the free lending across the board as opposed the bank of England base rate that screwed RBS? I don't fully understand it (obviously).

 

[Green Sleeves]

Thanks for that.

Was it not the free lending across the board as opposed the bank of England base rate that screwed RBS? I don't fully understand it (obviously).

Pretty much so. Risky mortgages with 125% loans and such like could have been avoided with tougher government regulation on loans. Instead Gordon Brown proclaimed that the days of boom to bust were over and he deregulated the banks giving them more or less carte blanche to pile up toxic debt.

For a while the banks - and bankers - coined it in big style but they were living on borrowed time. It all went belly up as recession kicked in. When it became clear to investors in the city that these banks had billions of bad debt that might never be paid back their shares plunged, inevitably, and banks like the RBS and Northern Rock went arse-over-tit and us mugs as tax payers had to bail them out.

Any economist with half a brain could have seen that one coming a mile off but when the champagne is flowing like there's no tomorrow blind eyes are turned in government and in the City of London.

The Bank of England monetary policy committee (Merv King and his eight merry men and women) on the other hand sets the base rates of interest. Although the bank is publicly owned, since 1997 it has been given independence from government. A right fucking stupid decision if you ask me but there you go. It means that elected governments dont have full control over economic/fiscal policy.

An independent Scottish state wouldnt need to copy the English central banking model. The US (which is hardly a model for banking as they're in as much shit as the Uk, but have a different central banking model). Anyway, there are other and better ways of doing things than is done in UK plc.

I'm not an economist and its possible I might have got some of the terms above wrong but thats my basic interpretation of how the banks work/dont work/fucked up over the last two years.

I've steered clear of the role of the European Central Bank and the Euro as I've recently been won over by Jim Sillars to the idea of an independent Scottish state joining the European Free Trade Association - along with Norway, Iceland, Switzerland and Lichenstein - rather than the European Union. This would give Scotland full economic access to the European market while having complete control over our oil and over fishery policy.

(Two minutes to kick off... will leave it there. ).

EFTA

 

[LunaCWsauzee]

I support independence and agree with what Green Sleeves says.

I think the SNP have a great opportunity to convince a lot of voters undecided on independence to support it.

Scottish Labour is still overly negative on everything and anything, with the classic "we cannae dae this, we cannae dae that" attitude towards Scotland.

I just wish the SNP would put forward a strong case for economic independence, showing the population that we can go it alone and be a great success instead of what can only be described as pissing about.