Name a big infratructure project initiated by Westminster in Scotland

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SirRiordan

Just A Radge
Joined
May 30, 2010
I can name Crossrail, HS2, Channel Tunnel and Olympics.

Can anyone name any in Scotland over the last 50 years?

Edit: Doh! These are all in England!
 
I suppose it depends what you mean. The last 50-70 years (pre-1999) has seen all Scotland's motorways, Forth Road Bridge, airports etc. Probably pretty much of a piece with 90% of the UK. Not sure this necessarily means Scotland has received its fair share - around 9% - of the UK capital budget over the last 50 years. However, if you mean, more specifically, has Scotland benefited to the same extent as London and the South East? Then as with the rest of England, Wales and NI, the answer is almost certainly no. What with Crossrail, the whole tube network, Olympics, HS1, Chunnel, the sewers etc.
 
As above, there's fuck all big projects of that sort that aren't targeted at London, but I reckon Scotland gets its fair share of infrastructure and service provision compared to the rest of not-London.
 
FTJT said:
As above, there's fuck all big projects of that sort that aren't targeted at London, but I reckon Scotland gets its fair share of infrastructure and service provision compared to the rest of not-London.
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That about nails it other than the additional point that Scotland also gets to mismanage infrastructure spend of its own.
 
Jack said:
Edinburgh tram.
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Ravenscraig!!

Because of its land mass population, I would guess, outside the central belt, transport infrastructure in Scotland is pretty expensive. Scotland has 3 big airports
 
arthurduncan said:
I suppose it depends what you mean. The last 50-70 years (pre-1999) has seen all Scotland's motorways, Forth Road Bridge, airports etc. Probably pretty much of a piece with 90% of the UK. Not sure this necessarily means Scotland has received its fair share - around 9% - of the UK capital budget over the last 50 years. However, if you mean, more specifically, has Scotland benefited to the same extent as London and the South East? Then as with the rest of England, Wales and NI, the answer is almost certainly no. What with Crossrail, the whole tube network, Olympics, HS1, Chunnel, the sewers etc.
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Why would Scotland need the super sewer? Tunnel to the continent may be a bit unrealistic as well. Maybe Scottish lorries are not able to fit through the one they built so the country doesn't benefit.

Is there not going to be an investment in shaving 5 minutes of the Glasgow-Edinburgh rail times?
 
DM Hibs said:
M74 extension

:yawning:
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So I guess roads/transport isn't devolved.Why then should Scottish tax payers contribute to crossrail, HS2 etc when the same level of contribution is not received for things like the new Forth crossing?Seems unfair,no?
 
southfieldhibby said:
Neither of those initiated or funded in any way by Westminster?

A reasonable comparison with HS2 would be the new Forth Crossing...one gets funding from Westminster, the other doesn't...is transport infrastructure a devolved matter?
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Yes transport is devolved.

I really cant think of any capital projects in Scotland that do not fall under the responsibility of the devolved parliament other than the parliament building itself, although that was administered IIRC by the Scottish Executive on Westminsters behalf.

Before devolution they would have been administered by the Scottish Office on Westminsters behalf.

I suppose on a UK basis military installations and nuclear power stations could be considered as major capital investments in Scotland by the UK government but that couldnt really be classed as infrastructure.
 
southfieldhibby said:
So I guess roads/transport isn't devolved.Why then should Scottish tax payers contribute to crossrail, HS2 etc when the same level of contribution is not received for things like the new Forth crossing?Seems unfair,no?
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Blah blah blah

:yawning:

Same reason England had to bail out 2 bust Scottish banks.
 
DM Hibs said:
Blah blah blah

:yawning:

Same reason England had to bail out 2 bust Scottish banks.
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you fishing?

The UK taxpayer had to bail out two banks because of the fuckwittery of the city of london. Scotland would be liable for a very small cut of that pie in any carve up.
 
Think I'm gonna change my mind and vote YES, and then all the whingeing nats will only be able to whinge at themselves.
 
DM Hibs said:
Think I'm gonna change my mind and vote YES, and then all the whingeing nats will only be able to whinge at themselves.
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Well done D. Another yes vote :applause:
 
Presumably the 14-square-mile Baroness Thatcher Memorial Furnace will be funded out of the devolved budget as well?
 
How about Westminster builds a massive memorial, like the Taj Mahal, on Culloden Moor in deference to Mrs Thatcher? That should keep everybody happy.
 
southfieldhibby said:
you fishing?

The UK taxpayer had to bail out two banks because of the fuckwittery of the city of london. Scotland would be liable for a very small cut of that pie in any carve up.
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Seems to have been plenty fuckwittery in the City of Edinburgh from Goodwin, et al. Some might say it was a Scottish chancellor who failed to regulate properly - although I'm not one of them.
 
southfieldhibby said:
you fishing?

The UK taxpayer had to bail out two banks because of the fuckwittery of the city of london. Scotland would be liable for a very small cut of that pie in any carve up.
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Think you'll find that it was because of hornby & goodwins reckless behaviour in there pursuit of being the biggest bank that caused them to fail and nowt to do with the city of london!
 
DM Hibs said:
Blah blah blah

:yawning:

Same reason England had to bail out 2 bust Scottish banks.
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Are Northern Rock and Bradford and Bingley classed as English banks then? Scottish tax payers helped bail them out.
 
And the biggest employer is.... the state! More so than any other region in Britain.

Northern Rock was allowed to go bust!
 
DM Hibs said:
And the biggest employer is.... the state! More so than any other region in Britain.

Northern Rock was allowed to go bust!
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the biggest employer in any country is usually ... the State.

systematic closures/cutbacks of various industries accounts for a helluva lot of unemployment in Scotland.

Successive Westminster governments 'reluctance' to invest in Scottish businesses has forced that unemployment upon us. Rosyth v Devonport is an obvious comparison. That would be a different scenario under an independant Scotland.
 
Gunner: unemployment % wise is lower in Scotland than rest of UK, state employment % wise is higher in Scotland than rest of UK. So reluctance? Pish?

Scotland does very well out of navy shipbuilding contracts etc, which it wouldn't otherwise. The whole of England's north east ship building has practically disappeared!
 
DM Hibs said:
Think you'll find that it was because of hornby & goodwins reckless behaviour in there pursuit of being the biggest bank that caused them to fail and nowt to do with the city of london!
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As Andrew Hughes Hallett. Professor of Economics at St Andrews University, put it, speaking on Radio Scotland.

"The real point here, and this is the real point, is by international convention, when banks which operate in more than one country get into these sorts of conditions, the bailout is shared in proportion to the area of activities of those banks, and therefore its shared between several countries. In the case of the RBS, Im not sure of the exact numbers, but roughly speaking 90% of its operations are in England and 10% are in Scotland, the result being, by that convention, therefore, that the rest of the UK would have to carry 90% of the liabilities of the RBS and Scotland 10%. And the precedent for this, if you want to go into the details, are the Fortis Bank and the Dexia Bank, which are two banks which were shared between France, Belgium and the Netherlands, at the same time were bailed out in proportion by France, Belgium and the Netherlands."
 
​
DM Hibs said:
Gunner: unemployment % wise is lower in Scotland than rest of UK, state employment % wise is higher in Scotland than rest of UK. So reluctance? Pish?

Scotland does very well out of navy shipbuilding contracts etc, which it wouldn't otherwise. The whole of England's north east ship building has practically disappeared!
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Rosyth suffered cutbacks to its refit programmes over the years since it lost its sole refit status in the early 90's, which was then shared with Devonport. Rosyth showed that it could do the work, on time and at price, as well as if not better than Devonport. MOD chose to award contracts to the South of England yard instead. Westminster showing favour with its Southern constituents? Mibbaes aye?

Shipbuilding also took a sharp decline to almost non-existent level in Scotland too. Far sooner than English yards.
When you say "which it wouldn't otherwise", are you implying that Scotland wouldn't get any ship building contracts from Westminster if we were independant?

figures quoted recently(end of 2012) showed the UK unemployment rate as 7.8%, whilst in Scotland it was 8.1%. Higher? Lower?
 
Jack said:
As Andrew Hughes Hallett. Professor of Economics at St Andrews University, put it, speaking on Radio Scotland.

"The real point here, and this is the real point, is by international convention, when banks which operate in more than one country get into these sorts of conditions, the bailout is shared in proportion to the area of activities of those banks, and therefore its shared between several countries. In the case of the RBS, Im not sure of the exact numbers, but roughly speaking 90% of its operations are in England and 10% are in Scotland, the result being, by that convention, therefore, that the rest of the UK would have to carry 90% of the liabilities of the RBS and Scotland 10%. And the precedent for this, if you want to go into the details, are the Fortis Bank and the Dexia Bank, which are two banks which were shared between France, Belgium and the Netherlands, at the same time were bailed out in proportion by France, Belgium and the Netherlands."
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This post has nowt to do with the quote you quoted.

But thanks tho, maybe nats will realise Scotland is only 10% if the economy, which is is! And stop expecting in the world.
 
I'll concede that unemployment % rate gunner. There is 0.1% difference. After continually reading scots nats boasting about Scottish employment raising faster that UK I thought scots was lower. Me stupid for believing that shit! Noted!!
 
DM Hibs said:
Blah blah blah

:yawning:

Same reason England had to bail out 2 bust Scottish banks.
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DM Hibs said:
Think you'll find that it was because of hornby & goodwins reckless behaviour in there pursuit of being the biggest bank that caused them to fail and nowt to do with the city of london!
Click to expand...

DM Hibs said:
This post has nowt to do with the quote you quoted.

But thanks tho, maybe nats will realise Scotland is only 10% if the economy, which is is! And stop expecting in the world.
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:giggle:
As Andrew Hughes Hallett. Professor of Economics at St Andrews University, put it, speaking on Radio Scotland.

"The real point here, and this is the real point, is by international convention, when banks which operate in more than one country get into these sorts of conditions, the bailout is shared in proportion to the area of activities of those banks, and therefore its shared between several countries. In the case of the RBS, Im not sure of the exact numbers, but roughly speaking 90% of its operations are in England and 10% are in Scotland, the result being, by that convention, therefore, that the rest of the UK would have to carry 90% of the liabilities of the RBS and Scotland 10%. And the precedent for this, if you want to go into the details, are the Fortis Bank and the Dexia Bank, which are two banks which were shared between France, Belgium and the Netherlands, at the same time were bailed out in proportion by France, Belgium and the Netherlands."
 
DM Hibs said:
I'll concede that unemployment % rate gunner. There is 0.1% difference. After continually reading scots nats boasting about Scottish employment raising faster that UK I thought scots was lower. Me stupid for believing that shit! Noted!!
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nae probs bud :wink:

I'm like you, I listen to continual pish coming from pro-unionists about 'facts' that would affect us if we vote 'YES'. Real scary pish at that.

But just to dwell on the Rosyth issue a wee bit longer ...

did you know that there are 7 nuclear-fuelled subs lying in storage over there just now being 'decommissioned'? They're waiting on Westminster to decide what is the best way of disposing of them. Until recently, I was never aware of that. Apparently some of them have been there for over 20 years! Do you know how many of them were actually built in Scotland? Zip. But Westminster feels this is the best place to dum erm 'store' them.


Hopefully we will be in a position soon to redress that decision.
 
Gunnerhibby said:
But just to dwell on the Rosyth issue a wee bit longer ...

did you know that there are 7 nuclear-fuelled subs lying in storage over there just now being 'decommissioned'? They're waiting on Westminster to decide what is the best way of disposing of them. Until recently, I was never aware of that. Apparently some of them have been there for over 20 years! Do you know how many of them were actually built in Scotland? Zip. But Westminster feels this is the best place to dum erm 'store' them.


Hopefully we will be in a position soon to redress that decision.
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Don't forget the estimated 30 tonnes of depleted uranium shells the Mod kindly dumped....I mean fired into Scottish waters from the Dundrennan Artillery Range in Kirkcudbright.

To put that in perspective, coalition forces have left 1.9 tonnes of depleted uranium shells in Iraq which it is estimated will cost $30million to deal with if the Iraqi government can persuade them to clear up their mess.

So there's a good project Westminster can spend money on - get yer nuclear shite out of our Solway Firth.
 
DM Hibs said:
This post has nowt to do with the quote you quoted.

But thanks tho, maybe nats will realise Scotland is only 10% if the economy, which is is! And stop expecting in the world.
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Ok but im still scratching my head to think of a major infrastructure project gifted by Westminster. Something that has enriched the country.

RBS doesn't count and as has rightly been pointed out the vast majority of these jobs are in England. The casino part of RBS is London based btw.
 
SirRiordan said:
This was a Holyrood initiative.
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Finally completing the inner ring road just when cities like Birmingham are getting rid off them.

M77 extension was a Westminster investment. Saw the battle between Swampy and the Beast of Eastwood.
 
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