Money

[Brainwrong]

Is there an alternative? It's all made up, none of it exists. Can we ditch the notion of wealthy & not wealthy and all have the obsticles & stresses removed from our lives? Do you agree that banks, ftse index, enconomies etc. are all just a big scam?

I personally think money is bollocks and one of the most unfair biased basis possible for our world to operate on.

I just don't know what a good fecking alternative could be.

Thoughts?

 

[Dub]

Is there an alternative? It's all made up, none of it exists. Can we ditch the notion of wealthy & not wealthy and all have the obsticles & stresses removed from our lives? Do you agree that banks, ftse index, enconomies etc. are all just a big scam?

I personally think money is bollocks and one of the most unfair biased basis possible for our world to operate on.

I just don't know what a good fecking alternative could be.

Thoughts?

I think Spam would be a decent alternative to money. Apart from that I really havent thought this through very much, if at all:glassraise:

 

[wee 162]

Is there an alternative? It's all made up, none of it exists. Can we ditch the notion of wealthy & not wealthy and all have the obsticles & stresses removed from our lives? Do you agree that banks, ftse index, enconomies etc. are all just a big scam?

I personally think money is bollocks and one of the most unfair biased basis possible for our world to operate on.

I just don't know what a good fecking alternative could be.

Thoughts?

Have you ever read any of Iain Banks science fiction stuff?

The vision he has of "The Culture" is about the only thing I've ever read which seemed convincing of how a society without money could come about. It's basically the human race living in limitless space with all resources ran by giant "minds". If you want something you just ask for it and you'll get it because everything is possible to be manufactured easily and cheaply. You can fill your life in any way you want. A pretty good utopia imo.

 

[Stirlinghibee]

Have you ever read any of Iain Banks science fiction stuff?

The vision he has of "The Culture" is about the only thing I've ever read which seemed convincing of how a society without money could come about. It's basically the human race living in limitless space with all resources ran by giant "minds". If you want something you just ask for it and you'll get it because everything is possible to be manufactured easily and cheaply. You can fill your life in any way you want. A pretty good utopia imo.

I remembered you mentioned this before, on a thread about nanotechnology (molecular machines that make everything from the atoms up).

In Star Trek, the "replicators" do the same job. However, in that Sci-Fi , so the stories could be seen as not too far out to modern minds, the writers came up with a nonsense material called "Gold Pressed Latinum" that could not be "replicated", hence it served as the plot device for the greedy nature of the Ferengi (all played by Jewish actors, as if by coincidence!)..

Also, when the G20 met in London, I thought to myself "What is the frickin problem here! Money is a human invention... It's not like an asteroid fleein it's wiy towards us. Surely we just need to rewrite how we do things". Aye, and they lay back laughing at naivities child..

 

[Brainwrong]

I think Spam would be a decent alternative to money. Apart from that I really havent thought this through very much, if at all:glassraise:

Thanks, Dub. I bear this in mind.

Have you ever read any of Iain Banks science fiction stuff?

The vision he has of "The Culture" is about the only thing I've ever read which seemed convincing of how a society without money could come about. It's basically the human race living in limitless space with all resources ran by giant "minds". If you want something you just ask for it and you'll get it because everything is possible to be manufactured easily and cheaply. You can fill your life in any way you want. A pretty good utopia imo.

Yep, I've read loads of his stuff and agree with you. But, I was meaning (although I wasn't clear on this) alternatives that are possible right now, society changing, money removing, feasible ideas. We don't have the technology right now to be anything like The Culture. Feckin' wish we did. Quite interesting the theme he keeps coming back to is the disenfrachisment certain individuals suffer from in such a utopia, sounds hard to imagine. Are we born to fight, born to resist the establishment? It's probably just certain folk.

 

[Tiger Prima]

This hurts when you think about it (well it does me any way:stars There would have to be some kind of currency. this could be a bartering system whereby you trade your labour, time or intellect to receive services which you want. eg OK I'll cut the fairway grass 6 times a year for a years golf club membership kind of thing.

However I know that when I leave the boozer I've allways got a pocketful of shrapnel (unless Osmos got there first and dipped my pockets ) So wandering up to the kebab shop and raking through a pocketful of tatties and pee pods would be problematic.

As would getting a taxi home

How much to the Big T mate

Aye that'll be thirty five turnips


Awww furfuxake have you got change of a goat.

Huv not mate

Awright if I pay you at the other end. I've got a rug in my other trousers:coffee:

At the end of the day some unscrupulous bugger would eventually end up inventing money. Then they would find the best way of diddling you out of it.:coffee:

 

[Brainwrong]

This hurts when you think about it (well it does me any way:stars There would have to be some kind of currency. this could be a bartering system whereby you trade your labour, time or intellect to receive services which you want. eg OK I'll cut the fairway grass 6 times a year for a years golf club membership kind of thing.

However I know that when I leave the boozer I've allways got a pocketful of shrapnel (unless Osmos got there first and dipped my pockets ) So wandering up to the kebab shop and raking through a pocketful of tatties and pee pods would be problematic.

As would getting a taxi home

How much to the Big T mate

Aye that'll be thirty five turnips


Awww furfuxake have you got change of a goat.

Huv not mate

Awright if I pay you at the other end. I've got a rug in my other trousers:coffee:

At the end of the day some unscrupulous bugger would eventually end up inventing money. Then they would find the best way of diddling you out of it.:coffee:

Was going to add to your rep but the Bounce telt me not to, I'm to "...spread it around..." aparantly....

 

[Dub]

I remembered you mentioned this before, on a thread about nanotechnology (molecular machines that make everything from the atoms up).

In Star Trek, the "replicators" do the same job. However, in that Sci-Fi , so the stories could be seen as not too far out to modern minds, the writers came up with a nonsense material called "Gold Pressed Latinum" that could not be "replicated", hence it served as the plot device for the greedy nature of the Ferengi (all played by Jewish actors, as if by coincidence!)..

Also, when the G20 met in London, I thought to myself "What is the frickin problem here! Money is a human invention... It's not like an asteroid fleein it's wiy towards us. Surely we just need to rewrite how we do things". Aye, and they lay back laughing at naivities child..

Quite apart from GPL much coveted by the Ferengi, the federation people get paid in credits do they not? This is just like money except it's not visible, shirley. It would be extremely difficult to come up with an alternative. As Tiger flippantly points out the barter system won't work in some circumstances, this is really an interesting subject so apologies if my initial response indicated that I wasnt taking it seriously.

Was going to add to your rep but the Bounce telt me not to, I'm to "...spread it around..." aparantly....

Don't encourage him

My wing man at work suggested we could use goldfish. The shinier it was the more it was worth.

 

[Brainwrong]

Don't encourage him

My wing man at work suggested we could use goldfish. The shinier it was the more it was worth.

You'd need a trenchcoat with lots of fairground plastic bags full of water & gold fish on strings to keep them fresher and therefore shinier, Shirley?

 

[Dub]

You'd need a trenchcoat with lots of fairground plastic bags full of water & gold fish on strings to keep them fresher and therefore shinier, Shirley?

Apart from the string this is all coming together nicely

What's the string for again:excl:

 

[ZemmamasBarnet]

money corrupts as much as power and they're intrinsically linked.

why does there need to be an alternative?

why can't we simply produce what we need to survive?

the people of the world have everything at their disposal to make, grow or build what they need but it went tits up when someone demanded a handful of beans for it.
(Posted fae ma mobile fone)

 

[Briant]

I think Spam would be a decent alternative to money. Apart from that I really havent thought this through very much, if at all:glassraise:

I've been 'collecting' the keys that open spam cans from supermarkets for years now.

I would be delighted if they became currency:rascal:

 

[beefy]

Apart from the string this is all coming together nicely

What's the string for again:excl:

Mibbes the fish had wee string simmet's on and they unravel as you try to catch yin :hmmm

I've been 'collecting' the keys that open spam cans from supermarkets for years now.

I would be delighted if they became currency:rascal:

My mate Allan collects wee L-shaped keys.

 

[Brainwrong]

Apart from the string this is all coming together nicely

What's the string for again:excl:

Well, obviously, the goldfish would be in bags and the bags would have to be attached to the inners of the trenchcoat, they'd dangle a bit.

money corrupts as much as power and they're intrinsically linked.

why does there need to be an alternative?

why can't we simply produce what we need to survive?

the people of the world have everything at their disposal to make, grow or build what they need but it went tits up when someone demanded a handful of beans for it.
(Posted fae ma mobile fone)

I mention getting rid of the concept of wealthy/not-wealthy. We don't need to get rid of money, we need to sort out the balance. However, I'd prefer we got rid of it altogether and just existed but we';d need technology (like Wee162 mentioned) to be far more advanced than it is right now for it to work.

Unless anyone's got any ideas.

 

[Tiger Prima]

Was going to add to your rep but the Bounce telt me not to, I'm to "...spread it around..." aparantly....

Cheers mate. Thought that counts

Quite apart from GPL much coveted by the Ferengi, the federation people get paid in credits do they not? This is just like money except it's not visible, shirley. It would be extremely difficult to come up with an alternative. As Tiger flippantly points out the barter system won't work in some circumstances, this is really an interesting subject so apologies if my initial response indicated that I wasnt taking it seriously.



Don't encourage him

Pay no attention to the bad man Just wondering how he got off my mantelpiece long enough to post anything

My wing man at work suggested we could use goldfish. The shinier it was the more it was worth.

 

[egb_hibs]

Is there an alternative? It's all made up, none of it exists. Can we ditch the notion of wealthy & not wealthy and all have the obsticles & stresses removed from our lives? Do you agree that banks, ftse index, enconomies etc. are all just a big scam?

I personally think money is bollocks and one of the most unfair biased basis possible for our world to operate on.

I just don't know what a good fecking alternative could be.

Thoughts?

Surely the problem is not money itself but financial systems.

Without money life would be very difficult; if I wanted to 'buy' a bag of spuds from wee162's farm, but I myself raise egg laying chickens, and he only wants apples, and if Dub the apple grower doesn't want eggs either, but is interested in the carrots you grow and luck being in you do want eggs, then by the time i've exchanged my eggs for your carrots then swapped them for some apples of Dub, then headed round to wee162's only to find his spuds have got rotten while I've been dicking around... well it would all get a 'long winded'.

Money is just - at it's simplest level - an abstract concept that represents eggs, chickens, apples and carrots through a common voucher system that cuts out all this malarkey.

What is a more interesting question is beyond that simple definition, what is money and how is it created. Right now most of it is created and destroyed by debt and repayment; but interest lives on - it is new money. The invented money also allows the creation of wealth - which is quite distinct. It's bonkers really.

Suppose the bank of EGB lends you 100 pounds to buy a house. I 'create' 100 pounds by lending it to you - I'm not giving you a 100 squid I have in the safe; the govt licenses me to invent 100 pounds for you, because I've got 10 actual pounds in my vault (which is not part of the 100 I give you).

You buy your house with it; you have just created wealth for yourself - your house is an asset with inherent value.

You then eventually pay me back 110 pounds - the sum I loaned you plus 10% interest. This destroys the money I created when I loaned you the 100 pounds to begin with; but left standing in the ashes is 10 pounds, which has gained life that survives the money creation / destruction cycle.

In the final analysis the hundred pound I created has disappeared into the ether from which it came. It may as well never have existed - except it's temporary lifespan brought you a house and me 10 pounds; doubling the amount that I actually had to begin with. And it doesn't end there. Let's suppose you built a house rather than bought one. The hundred pounds I invented for you, was also paid on to the 5 guys who built your house, and they each bought a car with it. My magic tenner has now doubled in value and created wealth to the tune of one house and 5 cars. And did I tell you what the car salesman did with the money he got...

Job's a good 'un.

If you think about money too hard it's a bit like magic. :urrr

(the above weirdness is why you get insanity like debts turning into assets!)

 

[egb_hibs]

Have you ever read any of Iain Banks science fiction stuff?

The vision he has of "The Culture" is about the only thing I've ever read which seemed convincing of how a society without money could come about. It's basically the human race living in limitless space with all resources ran by giant "minds". If you want something you just ask for it and you'll get it because everything is possible to be manufactured easily and cheaply. You can fill your life in any way you want. A pretty good utopia imo.

I think it would go tits up quite soon, but that's another story. In terms of this subject, you'd need something like that before you'd be able to get rid of money, which shows exactly how unlikely it is!

 

[Brainwrong]

Surely the problem is not money itself but financial systems.

Without money life would be very difficult; if I wanted to 'buy' a bag of spuds from wee162's farm, but I myself raise egg laying chickens, and he only wants apples, and if Dub the apple grower doesn't want eggs either, but is interested in the carrots you grow and luck being in you do want eggs, then by the time i've exchanged my eggs for your carrots then swapped them for some apples of Dub, then headed round to wee162's only to find his spuds have got rotten while I've been dicking around... well it would all get a 'long winded'.

Money is just - at it's simplest level - an abstract concept that represents eggs, chickens, apples and carrots through a common voucher system that cuts out all this malarkey.

What is a more interesting question is beyond that simple definition, what is money and how is it created. Right now most of it is created and destroyed by debt and repayment; but interest lives on - it is new money. The invented money also allows the creation of wealth - which is quite distinct. It's bonkers really.

Suppose the bank of EGB lends you 100 pounds to buy a house. I 'create' 100 pounds by lending it to you - I'm not giving you a 100 squid I have in the safe; the govt licenses me to invent 100 pounds for you, because I've got 10 actual pounds in my vault (which is not part of the 100 I give you).

You buy your house with it; you have just created wealth for yourself - your house is an asset with inherent value.

You then eventually pay me back 110 pounds - the sum I loaned you plus 10% interest. This destroys the money I created when I loaned you the 100 pounds to begin with; but left standing in the ashes is 10 pounds, which has gained life that survives the money creation / destruction cycle.

In the final analysis the hundred pound I created has disappeared into the ether from which it came. It may as well never have existed - except it's temporary lifespan brought you a house and me 10 pounds; doubling the amount that I actually had to begin with. And it doesn't end there. Let's suppose you built a house rather than bought one. The hundred pounds I invented for you, was also paid on to the 5 guys who built your house, and they each bought a car with it. My magic tenner has now doubled in value and created wealth to the tune of one house and 5 cars. And did I tell you what the car salesman did with the money he got...

Job's a good 'un.

If you think about money too hard it's a bit like magic. :urrr

(the above weirdness is why you get insanity like debts turning into assets!)

Good post man. Like I say, I don't necessarily think money should be discontinued but they way we organise it should be. Because it's such an abstract thing, it should be abstract (and altruistic) enough to make some more of its self up and stop hanging around #$%^^ that are in no need of it. Money is a good concept as illustrated by you above but it's being abused in my opinion and nobody's doing anything about it, how can they? they're all either tied into loans from the fecking Royal Bank of EGB or they cannae get a foothold and are living hand to mouth.

 

[Bod Fraudsquad]

Surely the problem is not money itself but financial systems.

Without money life would be very difficult; if I wanted to 'buy' a bag of spuds from wee162's farm, but I myself raise egg laying chickens, and he only wants apples, and if Dub the apple grower doesn't want eggs either, but is interested in the carrots you grow and luck being in you do want eggs, then by the time i've exchanged my eggs for your carrots then swapped them for some apples of Dub, then headed round to wee162's only to find his spuds have got rotten while I've been dicking around... well it would all get a 'long winded'.

Money is just - at it's simplest level - an abstract concept that represents eggs, chickens, apples and carrots through a common voucher system that cuts out all this malarkey.

What is a more interesting question is beyond that simple definition, what is money and how is it created. Right now most of it is created and destroyed by debt and repayment; but interest lives on - it is new money. The invented money also allows the creation of wealth - which is quite distinct. It's bonkers really.

Suppose the bank of EGB lends you 100 pounds to buy a house. I 'create' 100 pounds by lending it to you - I'm not giving you a 100 squid I have in the safe; the govt licenses me to invent 100 pounds for you, because I've got 10 actual pounds in my vault (which is not part of the 100 I give you).

You buy your house with it; you have just created wealth for yourself - your house is an asset with inherent value.

You then eventually pay me back 110 pounds - the sum I loaned you plus 10% interest. This destroys the money I created when I loaned you the 100 pounds to begin with; but left standing in the ashes is 10 pounds, which has gained life that survives the money creation / destruction cycle.

In the final analysis the hundred pound I created has disappeared into the ether from which it came. It may as well never have existed - except it's temporary lifespan brought you a house and me 10 pounds; doubling the amount that I actually had to begin with. And it doesn't end there. Let's suppose you built a house rather than bought one. The hundred pounds I invented for you, was also paid on to the 5 guys who built your house, and they each bought a car with it. My magic tenner has now doubled in value and created wealth to the tune of one house and 5 cars. And did I tell you what the car salesman did with the money he got...

Job's a good 'un.

If you think about money too hard it's a bit like magic. :urrr

(the above weirdness is why you get insanity like debts turning into assets!)

I like that shit :smoke: