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aggie

aggie

Justified Radge
Private Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2006
I'll probably get smashed for this, but as a boy brought up in a family of women with a faither scarcely around, I couldn't help but be struck by recent events.

For far too long, Scottish football has been the preserve and playground of entrenched, Glasgow-centric boys-in-blazers.

However, one positive to be taken from the utter clusterf**k created by the SPFL in the last 24hrs - tantamount to corruption, in my opinion - is that the the fully justified outrage and resistance to it was led by the head honchos at the helms of the two Edinburgh clubs, Hibs and Hearts. Two women from "outside the tent" went about their business in an eloquent, dignified way, while also making it abundantly clear that they were not about to take any shite from the bungling idiot-boys who've treated power as a right, not a responsibility.

When writing that, the parallels with another sphere seem difficult to ignore, as suddenly the Camerons, Milibands, and Cleggs of the London-centric political world realise that Nicola Sturgeon is not in fact "some wee woman", but a formidable lady who is not to be messed with.

Leeann Dempster and Anne Budge - take a bow. I for one would be as happy to see you running the whole show in Scottish football, as I am to see Nicola running the show so effectively in Scottish politics.

And if ever there was a more effective argument for more female representation in politics, sport, the boardroom, wherever, I'm yet to see it.

:worthy
 
Excellent post. And, the political side, I've been very unseethed about as you and many others too.

Long may this continue.
 
I agree. Some of the best leaders I've met have been women. The cause is done little favour by tokenism in political parties and quotas (for example), with the likes of Nicola Sturgeon and Ruth Davidson providing an example to the westminster parties. They represent - whatever ones views of their politics - proper leaders there on their own merits rather than counterproductive political correctness.

I think there will be more of it in industry as the generations roll through. There is no doubting the difficulties women face due to child related career breaks, and there is no easy answer through compensating positive discrimination - which is even more unjust as well as failing to paper over gaps in experience. Ive no idea what the answer is here, because talented women forgoing motherhood is no answer either.
 
egb_hibs said:
I think there will be more of it in industry as the generations roll through. There is no doubting the difficulties women face due to child related career breaks, and there is no easy answer through compensating positive discrimination - which is even more unjust as well as failing to paper over gaps in experience. Ive no idea what the answer is here, because talented women forgoing motherhood is no answer either.
Click to expand...

Indeed, it's a real quandary.

However, I think in very many cases, the "gaps in experience" thing is a misnomer. In reality, outside of cutting-edge tech, for instance, there are actually very few industries where things move so rapidly and radically over the course of, say, 6-12 months that it would represent a serious "experience deficit" to hire (or rehire, or indeed restore) a woman to a role she dispensed of competently just a short while previously. I mean, if a woman was CEO of Sainsbury's, for example, how much would the supermarket world have moved on while she was away having a baby? In reality, leadership is almost an innate quality, as opposed to a constantly updating skillset, and that's what these positions are really about.

I get that it's a nuanced situation, but I often wonder whether that "experience gap" is just a convenient mechanism to clear the way for guys who've been rightly kept subordinate by a more competent woman, who is bound by a biological clock to bow out for a fatal (for her career) period.
 
aggie said:
Indeed, it's a real quandary.

However, I think in very many cases, the "gaps in experience" thing is a misnomer. In reality, outside of cutting-edge tech, for instance, there are actually very few industries where things move so rapidly and radically over the course of, say, 6-12 months that it would represent a serious "experience deficit" to hire (or rehire, or indeed restore) a woman to a role she dispensed of competently just a short while previously. I mean, if a woman was CEO of Sainsbury's, for example, how much would the supermarket world have moved on while she was away having a baby? In reality, leadership is almost an innate quality, as opposed to a constantly updating skillset, and that's what these positions are really about.

I get that it's a nuanced situation, but I often wonder whether that "experience gap" is just a convenient mechanism to clear the way for guys who've been rightly kept subordinate by a more competent woman, who is bound by a biological clock to bow out for a fatal (for her career) period.
Click to expand...

No, it's real - or can be. 6-12 months I agree (although not to be sniffed at), but its when there are years of part time work involved, then you are missing out on a massive amount of 'flying hours'. The folk who end up at the top are constantly switching and growing roles in these years to gain experience. Leadership is indeed built on innate qualities, but to suggest that experience is not essential is way wide of the mark IMHO. In football terms, even on field leaders don't always make off field leaders, despite the vast overlap in territory - innate leadership only takes you so far.
 
I'm pretty sure only women should do politics. And I'm only half joking.
 
egb_hibs said:
You're not keeping up Henry. It's possibly the most reactionary thing I've ever said on this board!
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I can't keep up with anything any more, the old certainties are dead. Like I thought it was social democracy to encourage immigration but apparently now it's not.
 
I sometimes wish women, not including my darling wife, would leave me alone. It's a burden.
 
HenryLB said:
I can't keep up with anything any more, the old certainties are dead. Like I thought it was social democracy to encourage immigration but apparently now it's not.
Click to expand...
I don't know what social democracy means but I do know that in labour politics - small l - it used to be frowned upon if guys were shipped in to undercut you. Then came the brilliant wheeze that if you shipped the guys in from further afield it made you a racist to oppose it. And all the big l labour guys got a sizeable number of teh small l labour guys to agree. Genius, of a kind.

It might be worth pointing out at this point - I should make this clear more often - that I don't necessarily disagree with all aspects of this, it's just I have what feels like an increasingly old fashioned inclination to see it from other people's point of view. One of the unpleasant aspects of state tenured scots is to sneer at the problems of English workers facing different challenges.

Edit - you could help me on social democracy by explaining how in this respect it is practically differentiated from margin squeezing global capitalism.
 
egb_hibs said:
I don't know what social democracy means but I do know that in labour politics - small l - it used to be frowned upon if guys were shipped in to undercut you. Then came the brilliant wheeze that if you shipped the guys in from further afield it made you a racist to oppose it. And all the big l labour guys got a sizeable number of teh small l labour guys to agree. Genius, of a kind.

It might be worth pointing out at this point - I should make this clear more often - that I don't necessarily disagree with all aspects of this, it's just I have what feels like an increasingly old fashioned inclination to see it from other people's point of view. One of the unpleasant aspects of state tenured scots is to sneer at the problems of English workers facing different challenges.

Edit - you could help me on social democracy by explaining how in this respect it is practically differentiated from margin squeezing global capitalism.
Click to expand...

To be honest it was just a snide dig at the SNP. I don't really know what social democracy is either but I'm pretty sure it's interferes with capitalism at least occasionally.
 
aggie said:
I'll probably get smashed for this, but as a boy brought up in a family of women with a faither scarcely around, I couldn't help but be struck by recent events.

For far too long, Scottish football has been the preserve and playground of entrenched, Glasgow-centric boys-in-blazers.

However, one positive to be taken from the utter clusterf**k created by the SPFL in the last 24hrs - tantamount to corruption, in my opinion - is that the the fully justified outrage and resistance to it was led by the head honchos at the helms of the two Edinburgh clubs, Hibs and Hearts. Two women from "outside the tent" went about their business in an eloquent, dignified way, while also making it abundantly clear that they were not about to take any $#@!e from the bungling idiot-boys who've treated power as a right, not a responsibility.

When writing that, the parallels with another sphere seem difficult to ignore, as suddenly the Camerons, Milibands, and Cleggs of the London-centric political world realise that Nicola Sturgeon is not in fact "some wee woman", but a formidable lady who is not to be messed with.

Leeann Dempster and Anne Budge - take a bow. I for one would be as happy to see you running the whole show in Scottish football, as I am to see Nicola running the show so effectively in Scottish politics.

And if ever there was a more effective argument for more female representation in politics, sport, the boardroom, wherever, I'm yet to see it.

:worthy
Click to expand...

Here here :-) always good to see unity & standing up for the rights....if it takes womem so be it. Good to see :-)
 
Women are always talking about being equal to men. They should be striving to be better, that just shows a lack of ambition which is why men are better.
 
Tell you what - after seeing my intelligent, on-the-ball, bright wife turn into a person who can't remember the names for everyday objects, continually loses possesions, repeating questions then denying she asked it, become extremely emotionally sensitive and in bed knackered at 8pm most nights during her 9 month of maternity I can probably guess it's not just 'sexism' holding women back in the workplace after they have kids.


Ps if anyone that knows her says anything about me saying this you're dead...wasn't kidding about the sensitivity and emotions.
 
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