Jezbollah / The Fruit and Nut party / Your Party

[Archie]

Which would be ok if we have checks and balances within the wider system, I've banged on about the benefits of a written constitution for an age now, that plus significant decentralisation of power beyond nation members to regions

We have a written constitution, just not a codified one. And I think the US constitution and how it is applied provides food for thought and notes of caution.

But where I agree is that rather than moaning about the monarchy or the House of Lords there needs to be serious discussion about what would replace them. And maybe your proposed decentralisation of power could be part of that. How on earth we as a country have a sensible conversation about is another matter.

 

[EH17 Jimmy]

If decentralisation means much more levels of politicians and the subsequent hangers on then na.

It's no for me.

At one time in ma bit we had a councillor, an MSP, a list MSP, an MP and a euro MP.

 

[gun ainm]

We have a written constitution, just not a codified one. And I think the US constitution and how it is applied provides food for thought and notes of caution.

But where I agree is that rather than moaning about the monarchy or the House of Lords there needs to be serious discussion about what would replace them. And maybe your proposed decentralisation of power could be part of that. How on earth we as a country have a sensible conversation about is another matter.

Point taken on written Vs codified I meant the latter.

I'm not convinced the UK has the structures in place to allow that conversation either, but a draft constitution written by citizens assembly and backed by the party of government at a new election would be my preference, Iceland post 2008 was interesting on this

 

[gun ainm]

If decentralisation means much more levels of politicians and the subsequent hangers on then na.

It's no for me.

At one time in ma bit we had a councillor, an MSP, a list MSP, an MP and a euro MP.

I share your skepticism but I'd start with structure and principles, we're paying for shite at the moment, I'd consider a lot including increased costs if we got a system that can work

 

[Archie]

Point taken on written Vs codified I meant the latter.

I'm not convinced the UK has the structures in place to allow that conversation either, but a draft constitution written by citizens assembly and backed by the party of government at a new election would be my preference, Iceland post 2008 was interesting on this

We need to know what underpins that constitution. Does Westminster have a reformed second chamber? What is the relationship between Westminster and the devolved administration. The Scottish Government has been criticised as over centralising. How to address that? And further devolution beyond existing administrations is assumed to be a good thing. But supporters need to articulate why.

I think the citizens assembly model is a bit tired to be honest. It has been used in Ireland to some success. But it was also a handy device to distance politicians from tricky issues. Maybe more relevant in the Irish context.

And finally, what would you want in a written constitution that isn't there now? I've seen some fanciful proposals like no child poverty. Laudable, but in a constitution? I do wonder if it is really the magic bullet that people seem to think it is.

 

[EH17 Jimmy]

I share your skepticism but I'd start with structure and principles, we're paying for shite at the moment, I'd consider a lot including increased costs if we got a system that can work

I would say that the new broom should start in the local areas.

Folk who live in the area as the councillor. Someone who knows what locals are concerned about.

I think anyone who is representing whichever area as MSP's should also live locally.

Act and speak for the area they represent and maybe once they do that then they can start making noises about world affairs.

 

[gun ainm]

We need to know what underpins that constitution. Does Westminster have a reformed second chamber? What is the relationship between Westminster and the devolved administration. The Scottish Government has been criticised as over centralising. How to address that? And further devolution beyond existing administrations is assumed to be a good thing. But supporters need to articulate why.

I think the citizens assembly model is a bit tired to be honest. It has been used in Ireland to some success. But it was also a handy device to distance politicians from tricky issues. Maybe more relevant in the Irish context.

And finally, what would you want in a written constitution that isn't there now? I've seen some fanciful proposals like no child poverty. Laudable, but in a constitution? I do wonder if it is really the magic bullet that people seem to think it is.

My main interest isn't so much the structure it'd be about setting out rights and responsibilities for individual citizens and the key principles which would become the touchstones of society. I see those revolving about equality, participation, obligation, freedom and values. Take child poverty, ending it would be laudable and imo should be a key aim of the government but I don't think we should say all kids have a constitutional right to be free of poverty. Where I do think it should say something however is how the wealth of the nation is shared.

 

[egb_hibs]

My main interest isn't so much the structure it'd be about setting out rights and responsibilities for individual citizens and the key principles which would become the touchstones of society. I see those revolving about equality, participation, obligation, freedom and values. Take child poverty, ending it would be laudable and imo should be a key aim of the government but I don't think we should say all kids have a constitutional right to be free of poverty. Where I do think it should say something however is how the wealth of the nation is shared.

Isn't the last a policy position rather than a constitutional matter ? Aren't constitutions more about the structure, scope and limitations of a polity, rights and responsibilities and so on. Basically, how the national machine should work rather than the ends it works to, which are more the terrain of political policy?

I hold my hands up and declare a high degree of ignorance here, but that's my impression. Is that incorrect?

On top of that, and you know me well enough to anticipate this R, everything really important to this stuff is prepolitical. I'm completely unconvinced that legalism can fix the problems we have in that respect.

 

[egb_hibs]

Fucking hell this is going to be radge bongo

Access Restricted

 

[Doc Shrink]

Fucking hell this is going to be radge bongo

Access Restricted

Some pic.
Age hasn't been kind to Little Bo-Peep.

 

[EH17 Jimmy]

Here's the paywalled version....

https://archive.is/20250731122621/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/31/greens-not-left-wing-enough-for-corbyn-alliance/

 

[egb_hibs]

On the bright side this could be the end of Harvie and co; unless Corbyn is leaving the gender stuff to them due to 'lack of enthusiasm' among one side of his coalition ?

 

[EH17 Jimmy]

Did the greens no have a civil war down in Brighton a while back? One faction being called the watermelons?

Green on the outside but red inside

 

[EH17 Jimmy]

From the grauniad. Some of there writers are getting excited about Jezbollah ....

Despite the chaos of its launch, Jeremy Corbyn and Zarah Sultana’s new party has struck a nerve​

Andy Beckett

Scathing rightwing coverage contains a revealing note of alarm: this is more than just a rebellion, and it’s gaining supporters fast.

Despite the chaos of its launch, Jeremy Corbyn and Zarah Sultana’s new party has struck a nerve | Andy Beckett

Scathing rightwing coverage contains a revealing note of alarm: this is more than just a rebellion, and it’s gaining supporters fast, says Guardian columnist Andy Beckett

www.theguardian.com

 

[Sancho Panza]

From the grauniad. Some of there writers are getting excited about Jezbollah ....

Despite the chaos of its launch, Jeremy Corbyn and Zarah Sultana’s new party has struck a nerve​

Andy Beckett

Scathing rightwing coverage contains a revealing note of alarm: this is more than just a rebellion, and it’s gaining supporters fast.

Despite the chaos of its launch, Jeremy Corbyn and Zarah Sultana’s new party has struck a nerve | Andy Beckett

Scathing rightwing coverage contains a revealing note of alarm: this is more than just a rebellion, and it’s gaining supporters fast, says Guardian columnist Andy Beckett

www.theguardian.com

And from the comments, here you have the Guadianista view of the working class in its purest form..

Truthhurts2
CraftyInnit
10
The problem here is that in most cases they *are* racist and thick (statistically alone half the voting population are below average intelligence, and the age group with the most voters as a % of their total numbers is the one that is in cognitive decline). Winning over racist/thick voters with complex policy making or extolling the virtues of immigration doesn't work because you've got people on the right who cut through far more easily with their "it's not racist to be anti-immigrant" and "I'm thick too, look I talk just like you do" schtick. Republicans have taken it to extremes, with a POTUS who is not only racist and thick, but revels in it. Farage and co merely seek to repeat that success here and so far are doing an excellent job (for them) of doing so, while Labour harps up on about "difficult choices" and "grown up politics".

 

[EH17 Jimmy]

Yep they are delusional if they think that the areas who turned Tory when Corbyn led Labour are suddenly going to change their minds.

John Harris is one of the better journos at the graun. Before the election when Corbyn was leader he was in working mens clubs in Northumberland.

He wondered why the folk said they would not vote labour. The folk pointed to the war memorials to those from the area who had fallen.

Most family's in Britain have had families in the military. And they will not vote for Corbyn.

 

[Sancho Panza]

Yep they are delusional if they think that the areas who turned Tory when Corbyn led Labour are suddenly going to change their minds.

John Harris is one of the better journos at the graun. Before the election when Corbyn was leader he was in working mens clubs in Northumberland.

He wondered why the folk said they would not vote labour. The folk pointed to the war memorials to those from the area who had fallen.

Most family's in Britain have had families in the military. And they will not vote for Corbyn.

I recently finished Paul Embery's book Despised. It really is excellent and gives a great insight into how so many on the modern Left hate the working class.

 

[Smurf]

From the grauniad. Some of there writers are getting excited about Jezbollah ....

Despite the chaos of its launch, Jeremy Corbyn and Zarah Sultana’s new party has struck a nerve​

Andy Beckett

Scathing rightwing coverage contains a revealing note of alarm: this is more than just a rebellion, and it’s gaining supporters fast.

Despite the chaos of its launch, Jeremy Corbyn and Zarah Sultana’s new party has struck a nerve | Andy Beckett

Scathing rightwing coverage contains a revealing note of alarm: this is more than just a rebellion, and it’s gaining supporters fast, says Guardian columnist Andy Beckett

www.theguardian.com

"Left leaning Britons" that make up around 10% of the vote. Cut themselves off in an echo chamber and convince themselves the entire world is at the front door demanding revolution...

 

[EH17 Jimmy]

I recently finished Paul Embery's book Despised. It really is excellent and gives a great insight into how so many on the modern Left hate the working class.

Very clever laddie Embery. Castigated by his union for backing Brexit.

Speaks very well and holds his own. I have the book in my still to read pile.

Have you had a gander at his substack thingy?.....

Paul Embery | Substack

Scribblings on working-class politics and culture by a (proudly anti-woke) socialist and trade unionist. Click to read Paul Embery, a Substack publication with tens of thousands of subscribers.

www.paulembery.com

 

[EH17 Jimmy]

"Left leaning Britons" that make up around 10% of the vote. Cut themselves off in an echo chamber and convince themselves the entire world is at the front door demanding revolution...

Remember when the libdems had some barking Scottish lassie in charge and she was getting big press as maybe becoming PM?

She was totally unhinged. Lived in an echo chamber.

She even lost her seat if I mind correctly.

 

[egb_hibs]

"Left leaning Britons" that make up around 10% of the vote. Cut themselves off in an echo chamber and convince themselves the entire world is at the front door demanding revolution...

They are just a starter motor. If this thing has legs it will be in the long term, and the left wing part of the formula is not the important one.

 

[egb_hibs]

And from the comments, here you have the Guadianista view of the working class in its purest form..

Truthhurts2
CraftyInnit
10
The problem here is that in most cases they *are* racist and thick (statistically alone half the voting population are below average intelligence, and the age group with the most voters as a % of their total numbers is the one that is in cognitive decline). Winning over racist/thick voters with complex policy making or extolling the virtues of immigration doesn't work because you've got people on the right who cut through far more easily with their "it's not racist to be anti-immigrant" and "I'm thick too, look I talk just like you do" schtick. Republicans have taken it to extremes, with a POTUS who is not only racist and thick, but revels in it. Farage and co merely seek to repeat that success here and so far are doing an excellent job (for them) of doing so, while Labour harps up on about "difficult choices" and "grown up politics".

Its worth remembering that it was the ancestors of this lot who were so keen on eugenics. The Austrian got a bit carried away and embarrassed everyone - same with their jewish preoccupation really - so it went in the closet for a bit, but the instincts haven't gone away.

 

[egb_hibs]

From the grauniad. Some of there writers are getting excited about Jezbollah ....

Despite the chaos of its launch, Jeremy Corbyn and Zarah Sultana’s new party has struck a nerve​

Andy Beckett

Scathing rightwing coverage contains a revealing note of alarm: this is more than just a rebellion, and it’s gaining supporters fast.

Despite the chaos of its launch, Jeremy Corbyn and Zarah Sultana’s new party has struck a nerve | Andy Beckett

Scathing rightwing coverage contains a revealing note of alarm: this is more than just a rebellion, and it’s gaining supporters fast, says Guardian columnist Andy Beckett

www.theguardian.com

You shouldn't judge a book by its cover an all that, but that guy could be in an illustrated dictionary under 'guardanista'. Having looked inside the book, specifically several of his columns, contents are much as the cover might suggest. A fantasist of the first order.

 

[aggie]

You shouldn't judge a book by its cover an all that, but that guy could be in an illustrated dictionary under 'guardanista'. Having looked inside the book, specifically several of his columns, contents are much as the cover might suggest. A fantasist of the first order.

Lol, I was thinking that — felt a bit mean-spirited, but one look at him and I was immediately imagining his earnest chat — he’ll be all about “making space for voices” and the like. Which certainly at uni often looks very much like a way weedy guys try and pull

I am aware I am being a judgmental dickhead here; hands totally held up!

 

[EH17 Jimmy]

I think that's why I included the photie

 

[EH17 Jimmy]

Full steam ahead for jezbollah........

Redirect Notice

 

[egb_hibs]

Trouble already as religious hardliners turn on bloke from the other half of the alliance for upholding women's rights.

Poor Adnan Hussain must wonder what kind of fanatics he's got into bed with.

Trans disagreements already threaten new Corbyn party

Anti-establishment parties are famously prone to splits early on. But Jeremy Corbyn’s new germ of a party has surely set a record. Before it has even been formally constituted, supporters have turned on one of the MPs in the “independent alliance” that consists of Corbyn, former Labour MP Zarah...

unherd.com

 

[Sancho Panza]

Trouble already as religious hardliners turn on bloke from the other half of the alliance for upholding women's rights.

Poor Adnan Hussain must wonder what kind of fanatics he's got into bed with.

Trans disagreements already threaten new Corbyn party

Anti-establishment parties are famously prone to splits early on. But Jeremy Corbyn’s new germ of a party has surely set a record. Before it has even been formally constituted, supporters have turned on one of the MPs in the “independent alliance” that consists of Corbyn, former Labour MP Zarah...

unherd.com

Comedy gold. The only people we hate more than the Romans are the fucking Judean People's Front.

 

[Smurf]

Trouble already as religious hardliners turn on bloke from the other half of the alliance for upholding women's rights.

Poor Adnan Hussain must wonder what kind of fanatics he's got into bed with.

Trans disagreements already threaten new Corbyn party

Anti-establishment parties are famously prone to splits early on. But Jeremy Corbyn’s new germ of a party has surely set a record. Before it has even been formally constituted, supporters have turned on one of the MPs in the “independent alliance” that consists of Corbyn, former Labour MP Zarah...

unherd.com

Entirely predictable.

 

[Hibee Kev]

That interesting, EG. When we visited the main mosque in Marrakech back in February the guide said we couldn't enter because we weren't Muslims. Shame, because the interior looked stunning.

Visited the Blue Mosque in Dubai a few years ago, was pretty cool. Got to go inside for a wee look about, shoes aff at the door.

 

[Findlayhibby]

Hur de hur.

Perhaps you need to familiarise yourself with electoral dynamics down south. Actually existing MPs, and existing projections for various seats. I'll assume you know what islamism is.

You don't so why should he?

 

[paigntonhibby]

islamism has no place in our society, islamists have no intention of integrating into our society and only interact if they think it will help in the promotion of their evil religion

 

[Beagle]

islamism has no place in our society, islamists have no intention of integrating into our society and only interact if they think it will help in the promotion of their evil religion

People are evil, not their religion.

Here’s a suggestion though If we all convert to follow Islam, then that will eradicate the issues.
Problem solved.

 

[paigntonhibby]

People are evil, not their religion.

Here’s a suggestion though If we all convert to follow Islam, then that will eradicate the issues.
Problem solved.

Here’s another suggestion , if we stop kowtowing to their demands and insist that their religion has no place in a modern society then maybe that will eradicate the issues, problem solved

 

[Westside Green]

People are evil, not their religion.

Here’s a suggestion though If we all convert to follow Islam, then that will eradicate the issues.
Problem solved.

We would all have to convert to the right strain of islam or it looks a bit like Ulster.

 

[hibbybilly]

We would all have to convert to the right strain of islam or it looks a bit like Ulster.

Ah but are you Islamcatholic or Islamprotestant???

 

[egb_hibs]

People are evil, not their religion.

People's conception of what is good and what is evil is profoundly, indeed mostly, a product of the culture that shaped them.

Here’s a suggestion though If we all convert to follow Islam, then that will eradicate the issues.
Problem solved.

You may jest. Your great grand children may not find it so funny. That is, after all, exactly what happened across swathes of what would be europe now, without it.

 

[Westside Green]

Ah but are you Islamcatholic or Islamprotestant???

From the Sunni side of the street

 

[Beagle]

People's conception of what is good and what is evil is profoundly, indeed mostly, a product of the culture that shaped them.

You may jest. Your great grand children may not find it so funny. That is, after all, exactly what happened across swathes of what would be europe now, without it.

Jesting or not it won’t affect me or the unlikely event of grand children etc. Why? Because we’ll all be deid. You can’t be affected by anything then.
If the leaders of the western world are successful in dragging us into an east-west world war it won’t matter a fuck about which of the many sky fairies folk believe in.

 

[egb_hibs]

Jesting or not it won’t affect me or the unlikely event of grand children etc. Why? Because we’ll all be deid. You can’t be affected by anything then.
If the leaders of the western world are successful in dragging us into an east-west world war it won’t matter a fuck about which of the many sky fairies folk believe in.

Might as well forget climate change, welfare and pensions crises an all then.

Its the boomer way it seems.

Its not unlikely by the way, unless there is a change of course.