Is it time to do something about neddish and toxic rugby culture ?

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egb_hibs

egb_hibs

Private Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2002
I mentioned some of these incidents on the rugby thread but they just keep coming.

Running battles at the WC with people hospitalised, racist abuse on the pitch, racist and other abuse on social media…

It seems to me to be a game for animals, increasingly watched by animals, and rapidly spinning out of control. Should the authorities clamp down, or should we give them a pass as they are all good public school boys who one day will be running the country ?
 
Every single thing about Rugby Union has changed since the game went professional.
Even the fans are different, coverage on TV etc, analisys. etc.
I agree behaviour is getting worse.
I will never understand it's enduring popularity to be honest.
Strange thing is club rugby gets miniscule crowds, whilst internationals are always packed out.
 
Greenmachine said:
Every single thing about Rugby Union has changed since the game went professional.
Even the fans are different, coverage on TV etc, analisys. etc.
I agree behaviour is getting worse.
I will never understand it's enduring popularity to be honest.
Strange thing is club rugby gets miniscule crowds, whilst internationals are always packed out.
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Money fucks everything.
I stopped watching when the money men destroyed the club game in Scotland.
 
I have said it for years, to anyone who will listen, that that international rugby fans can behave in ways that would have the Police & authorities stamping on any football fans who display the same behaviours. Regularly seen at Murrayfield at international games:
Extreme drunkenness
Urinating in public
Racism
Sexism
Sexual harassment
Fighting (usually later on in pubs / clubs)
Abuse of stewards etc
A blind eye turned to the majority of it. Have we ever seen Police on trains stopping rugby fans drinking alcohol?
Anyway, in answer to your question, in terms of the fans, nothing will happen. The on the pitch stuff and the social media stuff, there may be some clamp down.
 
moathibby said:
Yes Overthrow the bourgoisie.
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That’s the spirit. Unfortunately the only comrades young enough to be lobbing cobblestones come almost entirely from their ranks, and are far more concerned that you use pronouns properly.

Overthrowing the bourgeoisie, is far right business these days, I’m afraid.
 
It’s like rollerball now, a physical war of attrition. Of course that’s going to spill over into the stands.
 
Not sure much has changed really, they were always running around sticking beer bottles up each others arses for fun.
 
Purple & Green said:
It’s like rollerball now, a physical war of attrition. Of course that’s going to spill over into the stands.
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I don’t want to slag off rugby as I would once have done. The fact people are enjoying it on this board is testament to real efforts to make it less elitist; genuinely, well done to all involved (normal service will resume shortly).

However, you hit on why it will never be for me. No one can persuade me that in the end, it’s about other than the triumph of brute force. I also suspect this was why historically it was the preserve of well nourished elites and how they bred their lads.

It’s just got no art to it, at least that I can see.
 
When I went to Leith Academy, there was no fitba team. Only rugger.
The geezer tried to tell me I was a good athlete and this was a great sport.
I declined.
Wasn’t until I moved out to clerie and went to Craigmount High that I had the opportunity to play competitive fitba.
Fuckin ridiculous state of affairs.
It’s led to my hate of rugby and all who sail in it. Which is probably unfair but theme the facts.
I always went with skill over force
 
The ever changing rules and different interpretations of the rules by modern refs is spoiling the flow of the game and it's maybe not the exciting spectacle to non lovers of the game it once was. It's still the beautiful game though and has much football can learn from.
Rugby only at my school and it was the only good thing about those miserable years.
Have the decades of obnoxious behaviour, violence, racism, bigotry, by football fans been the fault of the game of football?
Of course the authorities should clamp down on bad behaviour wherever and by whoever but I had to laugh seeing football fans bemoaning bad behavior by rugby fans.
 
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I'm not bemoaning the behaviour of rugby fans, just society's attitude compared to how football fans can be treated.

Rugby has become too complicated, even more so with the new head contact rules. Every time I watch a game at Murrayfield, there are people around me who have no idea what's going on. I consider myself fairly knowledgeable, but there have been a few times during the WC I have gone "Eh?"
 
egb_hibs said:
That’s the spirit. Unfortunately the only comrades young enough to be lobbing cobblestones come almost entirely from their ranks, and are far more concerned that you use pronouns properly.

Overthrowing the bourgeoisie, is far right business these days, I’m afraid.
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Have you been watching Union?
 
moathibby said:
Hardy har har.I was meaning the excellent Documentary series over on I-player.
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Sorry Moaty I couldn’t resist.

Anyway, no I have not. I don’t watch much on the Beeb and indeed little broadcast tv at all. It’s so hopelessly compromised that I prefer reading for documentary stuff (it’s no less biased usually, but quicker to sift through) and trying to find dramas on streaming that aren’t laden with ham fisted polemicism. Sad, but that’s the way it is.

But if you tell me this is any good I’ll give it a go. I seem to remember the presenter being a bit of a propagandist, but then it goes with the territory.
Tbh I’m expecting lots of bad white men and imperialists, an invented historical diversity that never was, and lots of eulogising about class struggles of the past presented through a narrative that serves the boss class interests of today. But there’s a lot to be said for hope surviving experience Moaty. I may give it a go this aftie if you recommend.
 
Bangkokhibby said:
The ever changing rules and different interpretations of the rules by modern refs is spoiling the flow of the game and it's maybe not the exciting spectacle to non lovers of the game it once was. It's still the beautiful game though and has much football can learn from.
Rugby only at my school and it was the only good thing about those miserable years.
Have the decades of obnoxious behaviour, violence, racism, bigotry, by football fans been the fault of the game of football?
Of course the authorities should clamp down on bad behaviour wherever and by whoever but I had to laugh seeing football fans bemoaning bad behavior by rugby fans.
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I went to a rugby only grammar school in South London (St Olaves) between Tower Bridge and London Bridge and I still remember it as the very worst period of my life (so far). The two games masters who took the rugby games were the most obnoxious, elitist people you could ever meet. They patronised me and a couple of pals as we came from working class backgrounds and couldn't be expected to understand how rugby or football defined who you were (and where you were going, uni or tech college). My pals and I only got into this school as it had just been taken over by the London Council and it had to take a percentage of local lads (boys only school) each year. We stood out from the others by accent and attire (and by things like my old man coming to a parent's evening on his bike and not in a Rover). The rugby culture (Rugby Union obviously) permeated through the whole of this school's environment and certainly left it's mark on my childhood.

So I think I can be forgiven for hating all things "rugby"
 
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I'm mixed about it. I have pals from the borders who love their rugby and have enjoyed matches I have attended. I do think there is an art to it, but unfortunately some of that art has become, for me, tainted as some of it is about forcing penalties - especially in the scrum. Brian Moore wrote about how in the old days the teams just got together for the scrum as way to restart the game. Now it's a weaponised power play. But to see a running try open up across the field can be a thing of beauty.

But for me it's getting too brutal. I saw a profile of and England forward from the world cup winning team who is so battered that he can't remember the game. And that will become more widespread.

www.bbc.co.uk

'I feel like a phoney' - Thompson on dementia

Steve Thompson opens up about the impact of early onset dementia on his life, including leading to suicidal thoughts.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

As for EGB's class warrior approach, I don't entirely agree, but there is something in it. I was at a Scotland international and one of the company handed round a hip flask. A steward approached and I thought here we go. 'Now lads, put that away'. I did reflect on how that would have played out at Easter Road.
 
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I went to Perth Academy in 1971 not long after schooling became Comprehensive in Perth. Prior to that there was very little chance of someone like me going to the Academy. However, I was deemed bright enough even though I lived on a Council Estate to be allowed in.

The only two outdoor winter sports played were Rugby and Hockey. I opted for rugby and played inside centre.

However, football was my love. Me and few mates decided towards the end of the first year that we wanted to play football, so we approached the Sports Master (Ned Hunter) and he basically told us to do one.

Not to be put off we organised a strike! We got most of our mates who played Rugby or Hockey to withdraw from playing until the school relented. It only took about 2 weeks of not being able to fulfil fixtures (a huge embarrassment for the Academy) for them to agree that from the following season we could play football too.

By the time I left school in December 1975 we were the dominant team in Perthshire school’s football and brilliantly coached by a guy called Jock Reid. To be fair the school supported us fully (probably because we were successful)

This also igniting my interest in what could be achieved when people worked together against the establishment. Something that has remained with me all my life.

I love watching International Rugby but that more because I want Scotland to succeed at everything! Especially against England.
 
barney said:
When I went to Leith Academy, there was no fitba team. Only rugger.
The geezer tried to tell me I was a good athlete and this was a great sport.
I declined.
Wasn’t until I moved out to clerie and went to Craigmount High that I had the opportunity to play competitive fitba.
Fuckin ridiculous state of affairs.
It’s led to my hate of rugby and all who sail in it. Which is probably unfair but theme the facts.
I always went with skill over force
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Funny thing. I went to Craigmount too and we never got to play football in PE. Just rugby and cross country running. In winter. Ended up loathing rugby and the people who played it.
 
I grew up in Galashiels in the 60's and 70's and rugby was the working class sport and compulsory at school until about aged 14.
The Scotland national team was full of guys who played for Gala and Hawick.
The school teams always smashed the public schools and the towns teams always smashed their FP teams.
A golden era that is now long gone after the money men came in.

The game allowed for guys of all shapes and sizes to find a place in a team.
Tall and fat guys in the pack and smaller, slighter built guys in the back line.
That's all gone now with all 15 guys massively built athletes.
The daft skeletal creatures are literally smashing each other to pieces.

The wonderful randomness of sport that I remember has been destroyed by money, power and sports science.
Strangely the lack of money to be made in Scottish football has largely saved us from the vagaries of the money men.
 
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