Iran

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Some bam that shot up a bar in Austin Texas last night was apparently sporting Iranian and Islamic paraphernalia.
 
Cavalier said:
So they're gonna bomb Saudi also?
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I think you're missing the point. Nobody is suggesting that this is a part of the world where anyone can openly express themselves whether that's their homosexuality, feminism, opposition to their government, independent press & media or the freedom to protest. But in Israel you can do all of that. You might not like the current Israeli government and one suspects the majority of Israeli's don't, but anyone here in the UK, enjoying the freedoms we do, saying they'd prefer to live in Iran over Israel has seriously lost the plot.
 
Back in the 1950's the Iranians had the audacity to nationalise its own oil! There followed an Anglo-American coup where the corrupt Shah dynasty took over. What could go wrong? The puppet Shah was overthrown in 1979 by an Islamic Fundamentalist movement which has lasted until today. So USA have had a thing for Iran ever since, culminating in the current atrocity.
 
jock3 said:
Back in the 1950's the Iranians had the audacity to nationalise its own oil! There followed an Anglo-American coup where the corrupt Shah dynasty took over. What could go wrong? The puppet Shah was overthrown in 1979 by an Islamic Fundamentalist movement which has lasted until today. So USA have had a thing for Iran ever since, culminating in the current atrocity.
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True and relevant. But also something that wouldn't have happened outside an existential struggle with the evils of communism. And communism wouldn't have happened with out the evils of capitalism and the evils of the French revolution. And capitalism wouldn't have happened without the evils of the Enlightenment and the French revolution, and the French revolution wouldn't have happened without the evils of monarchs, which wouldnt have happened without the fall of the roman empire.

And so on until Cain turned on Abel.

At the end of the day though, a near half century of increasingly apocalyptic islamist dictatorship is what makes the weather in Iran and much of the mddle east. Which wouldn't have happened if the ottoman empire hadn't fallen, which wouldn't have happened if...

We need to be mindful of history but not rewind till we find a bit that suits us.
 
are we agreed the aim here is regime change or is anyone buying the WMD lines? Pretty clear there is no plan on what might come next - I don't think Reza Pahlavi (or Maryam Rajavi for that matter) has the juice? while yes there are plenty Iranians celebrating the moment and I see why that'd be the case, it feels reminiscent of Baghdad in 2003. Trump's actions are reckless and I wonder at his primary motive I don't believe for a minute they are principally motivated by humanitarian concerns or as punishment for state repression & murder of protestors, just as I don't believe the imminent nuclear threat, why the Donald has pressed go may be a very different reason than the one(s) those persuaded him have - interesting to hear farage and badenoch calling for UK to back/more closely ally with the US/Israeli strikes - I for one am glad Starmer has chosen not to - even if his position is one of wibble, we shouldn't be involved in this, interesting and somewhat distressing that the neocons are bac - i wonder at just how influential Bibi has been in this - i'd have thought Iraq/Afghanistan/Libya etc would have buried such notions - the hubris after Venezuela and the first few days of Iranian strikes seems like its all set up to bite someone in the arse - I'd be surprised if there were no significant price for the US somewhere down the line, as with in Iran I'm praying for the innocents - too many have died already
 
Cant quite get my dome around how wanting to visit a country I’ve always had a fascination with results in me supporting any kind of tyrannical regime. A country is far more than the eedjits who rule.
I’m off to America for the WC, can’t wait. I most certainly do no support the actions of their governments.
And smurf I’m pretty sure you mentioned you’ve been to either The UAE or Qatar recently? I’ve been to those places too and I don’t agree with how they treat woman or the LGBTQ 🏳️‍🌈 community either. Or their effective use of the slave trade. Don’t be a hypocrite.
 
southfieldhibby said:
Cant quite get my dome around how wanting to visit a country I’ve always had a fascination with results in me supporting any kind of tyrannical regime. A country is far more than the eedjits who rule.
I’m off to America for the WC, can’t wait. I most certainly do no support the actions of their governments.
And smurf I’m pretty sure you mentioned you’ve been to either The UAE or Qatar recently? I’ve been to those places too and I don’t agree with how they treat woman or the LGBTQ 🏳️‍🌈 community either. Or their effective use of the slave trade. Don’t be a hypocrite.
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Its quite a step from "visiting" to "living in" as you originally said.
I'd love to visit Iran, beautiful country, unfortunately run by religious despots
 
southfieldhibby said:
Cant quite get my dome around how wanting to visit a country I’ve always had a fascination with results in me supporting any kind of tyrannical regime. A country is far more than the eedjits who rule.
I’m off to America for the WC, can’t wait. I most certainly do no support the actions of their governments.
And smurf I’m pretty sure you mentioned you’ve been to either The UAE or Qatar recently? I’ve been to those places too and I don’t agree with how they treat woman or the LGBTQ 🏳️‍🌈 community either. Or their effective use of the slave trade. Don’t be a hypocrite.
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Wow that's a spectacular shifting of the goalposts.... Recently I was indeed in UAE, Qatar and Bahrain. Of course i disagree with how certain groups are treated. However, I'm visiting and when visiting anywhere i don't necessarily agree with everything their government does... I live in Scotland and the UK and don't agree with everything Holyrood or Westminster does... How does that make me a hypocrite to visit these places? You said you'd prefer to live in Iran over Israel.
 
southfieldhibby said:
Cant quite get my dome around how wanting to visit a country I’ve always had a fascination with results in me supporting any kind of tyrannical regime. A country is far more than the eedjits who rule.
I’m off to America for the WC, can’t wait. I most certainly do no support the actions of their governments.
And smurf I’m pretty sure you mentioned you’ve been to either The UAE or Qatar recently? I’ve been to those places too and I don’t agree with how they treat woman or the LGBTQ 🏳️‍🌈 community either. Or their effective use of the slave trade. Don’t be a hypocrite.
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I'd rather holiday in Iran than Benidorm would have been an entirely different post ya chancer :lauff:
 
gun ainm said:
are we agreed the aim here is regime change or is anyone buying the WMD lines?
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Not sure it's an either / or

Its clearly about regime change but I think they want to change the regime because they don't want an apocalyptic cult that believes destroying Israel and others with summon their messiah, from getting nuclear weapons. And because they are behind most of the carnage in the middle East and a fair bit beyond. And because they are now massacring freedom campaigners by the bucket load.
 
On another note, I see the papers are getting all teary eyed about uk expats - Middle East immigrants to be precise, trapped in their millionaire paradises and our government are trying to get them out of harms way.

I’m so looking forward to these leeches coming back to Britain to pay their fucking taxes here and seeing the inside of a jail cell for a good few crooks.
 
Beagle said:
On another note, I see the papers are getting all teary eyed about uk expats - Middle East immigrants to be precise, trapped in their millionaire paradises and our government are trying to get them out of harms way.

I’m so looking forward to these leeches coming back to Britain to pay their fucking taxes here and seeing the inside of a jail cell for a good few crooks.
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You're all heart B
 
Beagle said:
On another note, I see the papers are getting all teary eyed about uk expats - Middle East immigrants to be precise, trapped in their millionaire paradises and our government are trying to get them out of harms way.

I’m so looking forward to these leeches coming back to Britain to pay their fucking taxes here and seeing the inside of a jail cell for a good few crooks.
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What papers are these? Is it not folk overseas on holiday, visiting family or doing work in the area who are UK citizens?
 
Smurf said:
What papers are these? Is it not folk overseas on holiday, visiting family or doing work in the area who are UK citizens?
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I think it’s everyone. Holidaymakers, tax evaders, crooks and political influencers alike
 
Beagle said:
I think it’s everyone. Holidaymakers, tax evaders, crooks and political influencers alike
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I don't think many who have set up permanently over there are frantically looking to get back? Most i know living there feel safe but shocked at events.
 
Smurf said:
I don't think many who have set up permanently over there are frantically looking to get back? Most i know living there feel safe but shocked at events.
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Oh I don’t get the impression they want to come back voluntarily. It’s more a ‘let’s save everyone’ shout from the newspapers. Although I do hope the likes of Richard Tice and his fellow shithouses are losing sleep listening for the drone bombs wondering if one is going to end it all.
 
Beagle said:
Oh I don’t get the impression they want to come back voluntarily. It’s more a ‘let’s save everyone’ shout from the newspapers. Although I do hope the likes of Richard Tice and his fellow shithouses are losing sleep listening for the drone bombs wondering if one is going to end it all.
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It would really be more appropriate if Zack and Jezza could be shipped over there to enjoy the hospitality of their pals. Ach well.
 
gun ainm said:
are we agreed the aim here is regime change or is anyone buying the WMD lines? Pretty clear there is no plan on what might come next - I don't think Reza Pahlavi (or Maryam Rajavi for that matter) has the juice? while yes there are plenty Iranians celebrating the moment and I see why that'd be the case, it feels reminiscent of Baghdad in 2003. Trump's actions are reckless and I wonder at his primary motive I don't believe for a minute they are principally motivated by humanitarian concerns or as punishment for state repression & murder of protestors, just as I don't believe the imminent nuclear threat, why the Donald has pressed go may be a very different reason than the one(s) those persuaded him have - interesting to hear farage and badenoch calling for UK to back/more closely ally with the US/Israeli strikes - I for one am glad Starmer has chosen not to - even if his position is one of wibble, we shouldn't be involved in this, interesting and somewhat distressing that the neocons are bac - i wonder at just how influential Bibi has been in this - i'd have thought Iraq/Afghanistan/Libya etc would have buried such notions - the hubris after Venezuela and the first few days of Iranian strikes seems like its all set up to bite someone in the arse - I'd be surprised if there were no significant price for the US somewhere down the line, as with in Iran I'm praying for the innocents - too many have died already
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Not much that I can disagree with here @gun ainm . This by an American amigo a couple of days before the attack by the US and Israel started is 100% as utterly relevant a couple of days following it.

Trump prepares for war with Iran – down with imperialist aggression!

Once again, the eyes of the world are fixed on every word and gesture of the man in the White House, Donald J. Trump. With one third of the entire American Navy
marxist.com marxist.com

Let's turn to Starmer and with turn being the operative word, I noticed that the statement to national TV last night, conveniently with no press permitted to ask pesky questions, was like those of a two bit defense lawyer and the hopeless Foreign Secretary,Yvette Cooper today bouncing about like a bouncing bomb tying herself in knots confusing offensive action with defensive action. The historical playbook first played out by Blair and Campbell is unfolding before our eyes.

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On a lighter though not really funny note I was watching various US news outlets Fox,CNN and others and all with Military bods, bemusedly questioned Trump and his advisors having any coherent plan or clue at all, pointing out that that Trump had announced that he had names of three potential new leaders of Iran that he could do business with at the cessation of military action, only to state a few hours later that two of them had been killed! Dr Stangelove indeed.

BIG G
 
greencol said:
Time to fill up yer motors.
Get stocked up from Morrisons( other supermarkets are available)
Inflation incoming.
Cant beat a good conflict to generate cash....
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Costco cheapest in town L.
 
gun ainm said:
are we agreed the aim here is regime change or is anyone buying the WMD lines? Pretty clear there is no plan on what might come next - I don't think Reza Pahlavi (or Maryam Rajavi for that matter) has the juice? while yes there are plenty Iranians celebrating the moment and I see why that'd be the case, it feels reminiscent of Baghdad in 2003. Trump's actions are reckless and I wonder at his primary motive I don't believe for a minute they are principally motivated by humanitarian concerns or as punishment for state repression & murder of protestors, just as I don't believe the imminent nuclear threat, why the Donald has pressed go may be a very different reason than the one(s) those persuaded him have - interesting to hear farage and badenoch calling for UK to back/more closely ally with the US/Israeli strikes - I for one am glad Starmer has chosen not to - even if his position is one of wibble, we shouldn't be involved in this, interesting and somewhat distressing that the neocons are bac - i wonder at just how influential Bibi has been in this - i'd have thought Iraq/Afghanistan/Libya etc would have buried such notions - the hubris after Venezuela and the first few days of Iranian strikes seems like its all set up to bite someone in the arse - I'd be surprised if there were no significant price for the US somewhere down the line, as with in Iran I'm praying for the innocents - too many have died already
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He's fucked it sadly.
 
greencol said:
Time to fill up yer motors.
Get stocked up from Morrisons( other supermarkets are available)
Inflation incoming.
Cant beat a good conflict to generate cash....
Click to expand...
I filled up with diesel on Thursday and it had gone up by 3p/ltr by Saturday - profiteering bastards.
 
blue toon hibby said:
Don’t know if they were shot down actually - the one on BBC website just seemed to fall from the sky - unless they use some sort of tech to jam instrumentation or the like?
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Interesting. Ahm not a military buff and I don't know if American planes are like the euro fighter but iirc it is unstable by design (so as to be nimble in dogfights) and where a commercial airliner can glide for miles without fuel, it will drop like a stone if the on board systems fail.
 
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