How do we resurrect a manufacturing sector?

[egb_hibs]

We've touched on similar subjects before but I think this is a particularly pressing subject given the failure of Labour's credit based economy.

But it's one that I think is as intractable as ever.

Put simply, how can we compete with cheaper labour costs overseas?

It seems to me we can only do that if;

...we had a large enough internal market to enable it; we don't

...we had mineral resources which could be exploited; other than coal, which is now an unfashionable product, we do not (AFAIK) and I'm not sure it would be economical either

...we had various markets cornered where people were prepared to pay a premium for british goods (like they will with, say, swiss watches, regional wines, or whatever). But we don't have much if any of that, and are too big an economy for this to be a central factor in any case.

I just don't see how we can do it. We may have mostly got rid of militant unionism that was a problem for heavy industry in the past. But the overheads of reentering such markets is massive, and surely not affordable.

The one area where there is real opportunity I think - as wee162 has pointed out - is precision engineering. But our education system is orientated wholly in the wrong direction for success in this area, and by definition it's not going to provide mass employment.

So what do we do?

 

[southfieldhibby]

By and large manufacturing in The UK is done, the game is a bogey.We cannot compete on large scale production with the likes of The Indian sub-continent or Asia.There will always be some,but thats only because of tax breaks given govt to big-business to base itself in The UK, or because financially it makes sense to build some cars ( for example) here rather than build them 8,000 miles away and ship them over.

How many people on here or how many people do you know that are working in IT?feckin plenty is the answer, a whole sector of work unthought of 10-15 years ago.Thats the route to go down, IT,silicon valley,engineering.Re-train and re-gear education towards it.That and being a joiner or a plumber or a spark.The aim for kids should be to be well trained and employed, not going to university for a worthless degree in English lit.

 

[Frenchman]

We've touched on similar subjects before but I think this is a particularly pressing subject given the failure of Labour's credit based economy.

But it's one that I think is as intractable as ever.

Put simply, how can we compete with cheaper labour costs overseas?

It seems to me we can only do that if;

...we had a large enough internal market to enable it; we don't

...we had mineral resources which could be exploited; other than coal, which is now an unfashionable product, we do not (AFAIK) and I'm not sure it would be economical either

...we had various markets cornered where people were prepared to pay a premium for british goods (like they will with, say, swiss watches, regional wines, or whatever). But we don't have much if any of that, and are too big an economy for this to be a central factor in any case.

I just don't see how we can do it. We may have mostly got rid of militant unionism that was a problem for heavy industry in the past. But the overheads of reentering such markets is massive, and surely not affordable.

The one area where there is real opportunity I think - as wee162 has pointed out - is precision engineering. But our education system is orientated wholly in the wrong direction for success in this area, and by definition it's not going to provide mass employment.

So what do we do?

I find this a very interesting post. I cannot, however, come up with much in the way of answers. Our only way forward, it seems to me, is through quality, in whatever field we are able to develop. 'Deutsche Qualitat' has always been their sales pitch, and even in the face of Japanese and Asiatic Rim competition, Audi Volkswagen has been able to maintain its position. Sadly, many of our producers of quality goods have been taken over or have gone to the wall in the face of cheaper alternatives.

Incidentally, I agree with you about militant trade unionism. But let us not forget why trade unions found their origin. Unfortunately they, like the agencies which caused their naissance, became too exploitatively powerful.

I am not sure I have given any kind of satisfactory reply to your interesting question.

 

[egb_hibs]

By and large manufacturing in The UK is done, the game is a bogey.We cannot compete on large scale production with the likes of The Indian sub-continent or Asia.There will always be some,but thats only because of tax breaks given govt to big-business to base itself in The UK, or because financially it makes sense to build some cars ( for example) here rather than build them 8,000 miles away and ship them over.

How many people on here or how many people do you know that are working in IT?feckin plenty is the answer, a whole sector of work unthought of 10-15 years ago.Thats the route to go down, IT,silicon valley,engineering.Re-train and re-gear education towards it.That and being a joiner or a plumber or a spark.The aim for kids should be to be well trained and employed, not going to university for a worthless degree in English lit.

IT will be mostly over in India and Asia in 20 years. Trades will indeed be a mainstay, but they surely depend on industries that create national wealth, so that there is a domestic customer base for their services.

 

[Stirlinghibee]

We've touched on similar subjects before but I think this is a particularly pressing subject given the failure of Labour's credit based economy.

But it's one that I think is as intractable as ever.

Put simply, how can we compete with cheaper labour costs overseas?

It seems to me we can only do that if;

...we had a large enough internal market to enable it; we don't

...we had mineral resources which could be exploited; other than coal, which is now an unfashionable product, we do not (AFAIK) and I'm not sure it would be economical either

...we had various markets cornered where people were prepared to pay a premium for british goods (like they will with, say, swiss watches, regional wines, or whatever). But we don't have much if any of that, and are too big an economy for this to be a central factor in any case.

I just don't see how we can do it. We may have mostly got rid of militant unionism that was a problem for heavy industry in the past. But the overheads of reentering such markets is massive, and surely not affordable.

The one area where there is real opportunity I think - as wee162 has pointed out - is precision engineering. But our education system is orientated wholly in the wrong direction for success in this area, and by definition it's not going to provide mass employment.

So what do we do?

1. Scotland is the "Saudi Arabia" of renewables. We focus our manufacturing industry to support this (Nigg Bay, Methil etc). Over time would'nt it be great that all the electric car batteries were sent to Scotland for recharging, or we supplied the power over huge power lines for the rest of Europe.

2. We develop materials that give added value outwith mass production. (I suppose that's my job at present!). Making customised lots of small volume that give added properties , sold at a premium. a) Labour costs are insignificant to unit costs and b) Why bother waiting to get the material in such small volumes from the Far east?? .

3. Embrace Space (in the long term). The resourses we could be mining are beyond belief.

 

[Hampden_Hibby]

Britain has fantastic natural and human resources

Scotland has fantastic natural resources, let's not make the oil mistake again. Winds and waves constantly battering in from the Atlantic and numerous deep, well filled lochs suitable for hydroelectrics.

The west coast wind, rain and rugged terrain could be the making of this country. Just look at the Whitelee Wind Farm operation.

 

[Dub]

I find this a very interesting post. I cannot, however, come up with much in the way of answers. Our only way forward, it seems to me, is through quality, in whatever field we are able to develop. 'Deutsche Qualitat' has always been their sales pitch, and even in the face of Japanese and Asiatic Rim competition, Audi Volkswagen has been able to maintain its position. Sadly, many of our producers of quality goods have been taken over or have gone to the wall in the face of cheaper alternatives.

Incidentally, I agree with you about militant trade unionism. But let us not forget why trade unions found their origin. Unfortunately they, like the agencies which caused their naissance, became too exploitatively powerful.I am not sure I have given any kind of satisfactory reply to your interesting question.

Aint that a fact. Unions would down tools at any opportunity it seemed. Were they just flexing their muscles.

 

[snoots]

Scotland has fantastic natural resources, let's not make the oil mistake again. Winds and waves constantly battering in from the Atlantic and numerous deep, well filled lochs suitable for hydroelectrics.

The west coast wind, rain and rugged terrain could be the making of this country. Just look at the Whitelee Wind Farm operation.

That is one answer. In general to promote manufacturing we'd need new unique ideas, real investment and people with balls to make it a goer.

If we could bottle and sell PC-penpusher-rhetoric the country would rolling in cash.