How did Hearts do it ? and what can Hibs do about it.

[Zab]

If they don't get through the Champions League qualifier then they drop down to the Europa League group stages.
Whatever happens they will be playing European group stage football till the end of this year.
Basically the same as the huns in the season just past.

They’re not guaranteed group stage football in any of the three European competitions with the way the qualifying path works. They can crash right out if they fail to win a tie, there’s no safety net as they’re not Champions and don’t have the coefficient points of the Huns to land them on the favourable side of the qualifying paths.

They will spend more than any other club in the league in terms of wages and transfer fees, but IMO they will both struggle to bring in the sort of quality they once did.
Even in their search for managers, they will have to lessen their ambitions.
Scottish football, even for Celtic and Rangers, simply does not hold much attraction for top players.
I just have a feeling that the gap has narrowed somewhat in the last year or two.
Might not be quite the return to the status quo that many expect.

Celtic and Rangers can spend more money on one player than another Scottish clubs entire transfer budget, including Hearts.

Celtic, in particular, and Rangers can attract a far higher calibre of manager than Derek McInnes.

The only reason the gap closed is because those two clubs made some very poor decisions - Celtic spent money very poorly last summer then got their managerial replacement appointment all wrong, while Rangers made some decent summer signings but got their initial managerial appointment disastrously wrong.

Hearts put themselves into a position to capitalise on that, but ultimately failed to do so. A 10% uplift in competence from the old firm in terms of summer recruitment and managerial appointment(s) will see them pull clear again, any greater uplift and they’ll leave the rest far behind again.

For all the praise Hearts received, they now have to reckon with the crushing blow of failure at the final hurdle. McInnes isn’t a winner, they don’t have a squad of winners, they now have to regroup all while navigating European qualifiers.

Bringing this back around to Hibernian - we should be seizing the opportunity. We should be looking to get ourselves ready for the season quickly and with a clear plan on recruitment, playing style, especially given we’ve no planned upheaval of manager or sporting director.

I fear we won’t, and we’ll meander through the summer and aim for 4th.

 

[Hammi]

I fear we won’t, and we’ll meander through the summer and aim for 4th.

Cert

 

[connerg]

For all the praise Hearts received, they now have to reckon with the crushing blow of failure at the final hurdle. McInnes isn’t a winner, they don’t have a squad of winners, they now have to regroup all while navigating European qualifiers.

The psychological effect of losing the title will linger for a long time.

 

[Young porty]

Even if they make a decent start the fans will get restless if/when the bigot bros pull away. It was truly their leicester moment and they blew it. Its going to be an awfy long summer for them. Probably like we felt after butchers relegation. That was feckin horrible but this is even more gut wrenching as we can see by so many of us,having suffered months of how great they were to now total silence. They are hurting so badly. Shame really.

 

[Gorgiegreens]

The psychological effect of losing the title will linger for a long time.

I predict 40 yrs.

 

[Smurf]

Marvin Bartley on Open Goal this week was you felt kind of holding back a little bit like his fellow legend Fraser Fyvie who was on a few weeks back.

Fyvie was adamant DG won't change his tactics or formation. Marvin was being very respectful not saying much but Simon Ferry asked a good question "Is Hibs with 30% possession at Falkirk good enough?". Now I suspect it wasn't as low as that and of course we won the game but it was still a good question particularly after Andy Halliday (who is actually always fair towards Hibs highlighted just how far superior Motherwell were to us). Bartley then said he felt over the summer DG will change how we play. I have to say I think it was more through hope rather than genuine expectation.

I thought Marvin Bartley spoke well explaining how he tactically changed things at Livingston and how he managed to improve things despite their pretty much confirmed relegation when getting the gig.

He's looking for a coaching role. He's a personslity full of enthusiasm. I think if DG is to stay on (i wish he wasn't) then he should consider a backroom reshuffle and add the big fella.

 

[Hibs Soldier]

Marvin Bartley on Open Goal this week was you felt kind of holding back a little bit like his fellow legend Fraser Fyvie who was on a few weeks back.

Fyvie was adamant DG won't change his tactics or formation. Marvin was being very respectful not saying much but Simon Ferry asked a good question "Is Hibs with 30% possession at Falkirk good enough?". Now I suspect it wasn't as low as that and of course we won the game but it was still a good question particularly after Andy Halliday (who is actually always fair towards Hibs highlighted just how far superior Motherwell were to us). Bartley then said he felt over the summer DG will change how we play. I have to say I think it was more through hope rather than genuine expectation.

I thought Marvin Bartley spoke well explaining how he tactically changed things at Livingston and how he managed to improve things despite their pretty much confirmed relegation when getting the gig.

He's looking for a coaching role. He's a personslity full of enthusiasm. I think if DG is to stay on (i wish he wasn't) then he should consider a backroom reshuffle and add the big fella.

I wonder how our possession stats stack against last seasons?

 

[Hibee Kev]

Would like to see some transfer activity (or even rumours) from us pretty soon. Another last minute trolley dash round the transfer window reduced items section isn't what we want. To be fair this wasn't the case last summer.

 

[Hibs Soldier]

Would like to see some transfer activity (or even rumours) from us pretty soon. Another last minute trolley dash round the transfer window reduced items section isn't what we want. To be fair this wasn't the case last summer.

Maybe waiting on contracts running out (Usually June 1st) to announce anything.

 

[Young porty]

Would like to see some transfer activity (or even rumours) from us pretty soon. Another last minute trolley dash round the transfer window reduced items section isn't what we want. To be fair this wasn't the case last summer.

Depends if targets are at the world cup. Agents will be hoping their players have a good world cup.

 

[Hammi]

I keep saying this and everyone disagrees with me but "Do Not Sign Players Who Are In Their International Teams" would be close to Criterion #1 of my algorithm.
Considering we seem to believe in the exact opposite, it's maybe not surprising we've not signed anyone.
A lot of players involved in the World Cup will have told their agents, "Take the phone calls, take the emails, but do not bother me until we're out of the World Cup."
Then there's the chance of signing someone in the next fortnight who tears a cruciate while playing for his national team in a warm-up game v Grenada.

For foreign players...
Not going to vanish in international breaks
Experience of physical league
Speaks good English
Experience of shite weather
Culturally similar
Single
Not from a country with rep for "combustible" or "sulky" mentality
No history of serious injuries

I'm still of the view that if a Celtic U18 player is drinking in a Glasgow pub, Celtic will know about it before he's finished his first pint.
If a Rangers U18 player is doing 40 on his scooter on a 30mph section of the A8, Rangers will know about it before the Gatso camera takes a snap.

Aye, there will be players outwith all of those categories who'd turn out to be stars but, operating at our level, our spying & intelligence info will be on a Southampton level.

All good, if you sign a player who's never getting near their national team.. English, french, Brazilian etc.

But someone eligible for Australia and the likes, immediately get recognised once they sign for us.

Can go from a non international to a full international overnight.


Agree with a lot of this though.

 

[Bambino]

Kept the Black Knights for a start and let them guide us.

 

[Bambino]

Depends if targets are at the world cup. Agents will be hoping their players have a good world cup.

We very rarely ever sign players that have just played at the world cup, if ever.

 

[Weehibbydrew]

We very rarely ever sign players that have just played at the world cup, if ever.

Please God, nobody mention Mark Caughey

 

[Smurf]

Please God, nobody mention Mark Caughey

At the time it felt exciting!

 

[Green juventine]

The psychological effect of losing the title will linger for a long time.

In order to lose the title they would have to have won the title which they didn't.

 

[Jack]

Going back to the thread title, its simple ...

We could beat them more regularly. That's as much as we can do.

 

[Doc Shrink]

Going back to the thread title, its simple ...

We could beat them more regularly. That's as much as we can do.

And beat other teams too.

 

[Jack]

And beat other teams too.

If we are set up to beat the gunts then the same set up will see off other teams too.

In my opinion we're giving too many teams too much respect.

 

[Green Sleeves]

There is an argument that Hibs fan base settles for averageness. Settles for Top 5 and scraping into Europe through the back door. Settles for having a club legend as an average but limited manager rather than aiming for the top and getting in someone who wants to win the league. Hibs have a fan base who have no self belief. Hertz fans want to win the league and came within a baw hair, finishing above a team who spent over £40m on players last season, proving that money doesnt guarantee success. The attitude and self belief at Hibs is wrong from top to bottom. Needs a culture shift.

 

[Purple & Green]

Maybe "go for it" every game?
Like the Hunettes did v Glesga City Girlies yesterday

True

That was bizarre dreadful game management.

I can only think they thought we’ll come out flying get ahead and put all the pressure on Hearts.

They didn’t need to do that, all they had to do was win and it’s almost certain that Hibs would be in with a chance of winning as the game went on.

As it was hearts were under no pressure all day and coasted to defeat. Yeah they won the title at Hibs, but not because of anything they done on the day

 

[Sancho Panza]

Mcinnes was another Jamestown Analytics signing apparantly.

Here is a link to a recent podcast that explains some stuff about Jamestown and Bloom. Thats the title of the podcast below, the comments is full of Hertz bams, Its 32 minutes long and does nothing but praise Jamestown, Bloom and Hertz so click on it at your own risk...
The Football Boardroom, Could Hearts Become European Footballs Biggest Success Story

Betteridge's Law of Headlines is an adage stating that any headline ending in a question mark can be answered by the word "no". First popularized by British technology journalist Ian Betteridge in 2009, it operates on the premise that if publishers were confident the answer was "yes," they would state it as a definitive assertion.

 

[Doc Shrink]

My previous post sounds like I'm having a dig at Green Sleeves in particular, which I'm not.

Two of the key elements in the Gunts winning so many games have been McInnes & Shankland.

McInnes was available for 4-&-a-half years. I'd be surprised if Killie paid him as much as we were paying our managers in the 3-&-a-half seasons he was there. Had we appointed McInnes in a summer, the thread on here would've stretched to 50 pages and 90% of posts would have been against the appointment.

Shankland was available a few times, prior to becoming a Gunt. In the 4 years he's been there, which Hibs striker has the lowest number of posts on here pointing out why he's a better player than Shankland?
Most general football fans' version of reality?
If Shankland and our forwards from the last 4 years were horses, running in the Ayr Gold Cup, Squirrel would be getting about 7lbs from him and the rest would be getting at least a stone. Bowie included.

Half the posters on here seem to have a view of Gunts that calls to mind a poem by Green Sleeves' avatar.
"It's from just west of Merchiston, not like us!
And it's bad enough with another race!
But f**k me! A Jambo! From Wardlaw Place?!"

They don't have wands.
Or horns.
Or much of a sense of humour.

We're both playing blackjack, with the house having an edge.
We both got 13.
We then got a 3 and stuck on 16.
The Gunts got a 7. Spawny Gets!
Fortunately, the house, showing 12, got Martin the croupier to turn over a 9.
Not much more to it than that.

McInnes is a boring Gunt.
He plays anti-fitba and there's no chance he'd be supported by Hibs fans. Sir David is seen as negative FFS. McInnes encourages cheating. It brings a modicum of success but it's not what I want to see. And he's an inbred Hun. Sings party songs, and would never be accepted here. Did I mention he's a Hun?

Shankland is a bigot. Sorry I meant to say Bigot with a capital B.
Hibs looked at him (with distaste) in the past and decided he wasn't worth the risk.
Maybe right? Maybe wrong.
I'm happy we didn't sign him.
He's been brilliant. Took the Gorgie Gonads to a millimetre of a league win, before fucking them over royally and shuffling his brogues along the M8 to join their big(ot) brothers.

I don't do poetry really, or blackjack so the rest of you post is ....... I dunno.

 

[Aushib9]

McInnes is a boring Gunt.
He plays anti-fitba and there's no chance he'd be supported by Hibs fans. Sir David is seen as negative FFS. McInnes encourages cheating. It brings a modicum of success but it's not what I want to see. And he's an inbred Hun. Sings party songs, and would never be accepted here. Did I mention he's a Hun?

Shankland is a bigot. Sorry I meant to say Bigot with a capital B.
Hibs looked at him (with distaste) in the past and decided he wasn't worth the risk.
Maybe right? Maybe wrong.
I'm happy we didn't sign him.
He's been brilliant. Took the Gorgie Gonads to a millimetre of a league win, before fucking them over royally and shuffling his brogues along the M8 to join their big(ot) brothers.

I don't do poetry really, or blackjack so the rest of you post is ..... I dunno.

Well said Doc.

 

[FTJT]

It's also a bit academic because even if we'd been interested, neither McInnes nor Shankland would want to ply their trade for a bunch of feenyuns.

 

[Smurf]

There is an argument that Hibs fan base settles for averageness. Settles for Top 5 and scraping into Europe through the back door. Settles for having a club legend as an average but limited manager rather than aiming for the top and getting in someone who wants to win the league. Hibs have a fan base who have no self belief. Hertz fans want to win the league and came within a baw hair, finishing above a team who spent over £40m on players last season, proving that money doesnt guarantee success. The attitude and self belief at Hibs is wrong from top to bottom. Needs a culture shift.

Well said.

If we'd had their season and they'd had ours no chance their manager survives.

And the reality is if our manager had been managing their team they'd have had our season.

 

[G MANSON79]

Who cares how hearts did the won fek all, they had no cup runs no europe so that's probably how they ended up the way it panned out, they chucked it because they ain't good enough!!

Us on the other hand probably started off the season playing some decent football and up against very good European opponents (highlight of the season tbh) but injuries losing late goals and probably selling Bowie cost us for how it ended for us!!

Anyway we only scored 9 goals less than that lot just poor decisions and some luck it could have been a hell of a lot better, we've managed to get european football again if any consolation we can only improve on that and hopefully some decent ball playing players to add success will come!!

Onwards and upwards KEEP THE FAITH GGTTH

 

[Hammi]

Anyway we only scored 9 goals less than that lot just poor decisions and some luck it could have been a hell of a lot better, we've managed to get european football again if any consolation we can only improve on that and hopefully some decent ball playing players to add success will come!!

Conceding 10 more than them too though. 20 goal swing between us.

 

[Greenmachine]

Conceding 10 more than them too though. 20 goal swing between us.

And therein lies where we really need to improve next season.
Hibs have to become more resilient and harder to beat.

 

[Hammi]

And therein lies where we really need to improve next season.
Hibs have to become more resilient and harder to beat.

I wonder how many goals against came from us being ahead in games too.
Kilmarnock right at the start of the season still winds me up, we were so much better than them. Games like that have really hurt us, chucked points.

Worse still I defended them because of Europe and taking their eye off the ball.
Turned out to be a habit

 

[Sancho Panza]

I wonder how many goals against came from us being ahead in games too.
Kilmarnock right at the start of the season still winds me up, we were so much better than them. Games like that have really hurt us, chucked points.

Worse still I defended them because of Europe and taking their eye off the ball.
Turned out to be a habit

Yeah. That game infuriated me. Should have been out of sight in the first half. Instead, lazy defending costs us a goal in stoppage time. They equalise early doors in the second and we're hanging on desperately for the rest of the game. Other managers seem able to change tactics and take the initiative while we never seem to know what to do if teams force their way back into the game. Been the same all season. Fucking frustrating.