HMV bust

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arthurduncan

arthurduncan

Nijinsky Radge
Private Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2002
it's been on the cards but following Jessops at the weekend, HMV goes into administration tomorrow apparently. Once I taught myself it wasn't a record shop then I came to quite like pissing about on latest tech, buying the occasional bluray etc. I am not sure if that means Waterstone's too?
 
Carnage on the High Street.

The coalition are doing their best - its just not fucking good enough, not even close.

I'd still like the Union to be beyond 10 years, this and all the other shit makes me think otherwise.
 
Quite upsetting to hear this....God only knows how many CD's, DVD's and vinyl albums I have bought out of that store since I was a bairn. Always a great store. Online shopping and downloading of music has fecked it good and proper, Christmas sales will have sounded it's death knell.

I don't know...for me there is still something special about going into a record store and walking out with a CD/album in your hand which can't be beaten by just a few clicks on a mouse on your PC. In fact, i've never really been into downloading music...suppose i'd better get used to it now.

Sad days...:sadwalk:
 
someone just reminded me HMV bought Fopp. Now that's a total fcukin disaster.
 
Greenmachine said:
Quite upsetting to hear this....God only knows how many CD's, DVD's and vinyl albums I have bought out of that store since I was a bairn. Always a great store. Online shopping and downloading of music has fecked it good and proper, Christmas sales will have sounded it's death knell.

I don't know...for me there is still something special about going into a record store and walking out with a CD/album in your hand which can't be beaten by just a few clicks on a mouse on your PC. In fact, i've never really been into downloading music...suppose i'd better get used to it now.

Sad days...:sadwalk:
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It is indeed old boy. I always thought that hmv would survive because of it being the last of the "record" shops where teenage boys and girls could meet and talk about music, a nice subject of shared interest to get the conversation started.

Bring back the 70s !
 
Just thinking about it - does that mean there is nowhere for a mainstream punter to buy a CD in the town? (I know there are some specialist shops still).

What an incredible turnaround since HMV and Virgin were side by side and John Menzies and WH Smiths just a little bit along.

I agree with Greenmachine it's quite sad looking back to formative years spent in these shops. But I'm part of the problem - it's all click and download for me now.

And on one level I have no sympathy; apple and amazon are doing to these guys what they did to neighbourhood record and book shops.

There's maybe a bigger question arising though; what is a 'high street' for?
 
Jack said:
Carnage on the High Street.

The coalition are doing their best - its just not fucking good enough, not even close.

I'd still like the Union to be beyond 10 years, this and all the other shit makes me think otherwise.
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Eh?

What do you want them to do? Block Amazon and iTunes web addresses?
 
The games up the pole. More and more of these niche companies will be folding in the next few years. Most people are shopping online, and with Amazon. Have a wee look at the HMV website, and compare the prices to Amazon. You can get it delivered to the house, cheaper than buying it in the shops. Nae bus fares, or parking tickets either.

The big books stores will be next, and then the game stores. I don't think its good for society, or the economy, but there's nothing that can stop the huge online giants.
 
egb_hibs said:
Eh?

What do you want them to do? Block Amazon and iTunes web addresses?
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The amount of money being removed from peoples pockets, by the coalition, and I don't mean the triers or whatever quaint name someone from the media made up, is astonishing.

Westminster has loyally fucked up the country, eeg while you blame Gordie for the world recession and I'm not going to argue the toss about that, the coalition made it difficult to trade and now near impossible.

The folk that would shop in Jessops, JJB, and now HMV don't have the money in their pockets. Its been moved to the folk who already have and made millions. Simplistic but while 100 folk with a spare 25 in their pockets buy 100 albums some rich dude with 2,500 will only buy one album too, you know what I mean.

The coalition have it horribly wrong, the balance has gone way further than they anticipated, its out of control and they don't know what to do other than take even more money out the pockets of the hundreds that spend lots of little amounts giving it to the few that have lots but are spending little amounts. Breathe.

Its not a very good advert for the Westminster self serving arrogant shits.

Difficult to think anyone could do worse.

And now the pensioners are having what they've paid into for 30 odd years are having their money sooked out their pockets. Yes there are winners but as its just said on the news - its a net loss for the punters. No change there then.

Do you think it will affect millionaires row?

12,000 jobs gone from the high street in the last 6 weeks.

No problem with traders who trade fairly.
 
Jack said:
The amount of money being removed from peoples pockets, by the coalition, and I don't mean the triers or whatever quaint name someone from the media made up, is astonishing.
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Do you mean they should reduce tax?

Westminster has loyally fucked up the country, eeg while you blame Gordie for the world recession and I'm not going to argue the toss about that, the coalition made it difficult to trade and now near impossible.
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It's remarkable we aren't in a lot worse mess given what Gordie bequeathed. What specifically should the coalition be doing that they aren't? If you do mean cutting taxes, that's one thing that could be tried, but I doubt they could get away with it politically. Is that what you meant?

The folk that would shop in Jessops, JJB, and now HMV don't have the money in their pockets. Its been moved to the folk who already have and made millions. Simplistic but while 100 folk with a spare 25 in their pockets buy 100 albums some rich dude with 2,500 will only buy one album too, you know what I mean.
Click to expand...
The recession may have been the straw that broke the camels back, but the rest of the load was amazon and iTunes, and in jessops case, digital photography.

The coalition have it horribly wrong, the balance has gone way further than they anticipated, its out of control and they don't know what to do other than take even more money out the pockets of the hundreds that spend lots of little amounts giving it to the few that have lots but are spending little amounts. Breathe.

Its not a very good advert for the Westminster self serving arrogant shits.

Difficult to think anyone could do worse.

And now the pensioners are having what they've paid into for 30 odd years are having their money sooked out their pockets. Yes there are winners but as its just said on the news - its a net loss for the punters. No change there then.

Do you think it will affect millionaires row?

12,000 jobs gone from the high street in the last 6 weeks.

No problem with traders who trade fairly.
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Well I gather the private sector has been creating jobs faster than the public sector has been shedding them. But the game is still a bogey. Unbreaking humpty dumpty is never going to be straightforward. Labour fucked the economy good and proper, blazing a trail in a world wide pattern of big banks and big governments - there's a very real prospect that things will never be the same again.

But while we can do this one to death again, it's still not the main thing that killed these particular shops. The real issue here is much more interesting - even if only cos we haven't done it so many times. i.e. the internet is rendering the traditional high street redundant.

I don't know about you, but the idea of venturing into town to buy a cd or book, navigating all the traffic carnage and paying through the nose for parking, is just not something I'm gonna do when I can download things in an instant and get referred stuff I would never otherwise have found.
 
It's supermarkets that have done the most damage to music and book stores.

No long til it's only supermarkets,bookies,coffee and charity shops left.
 
I think clothes ships will survive due to the benefit of trying stuff on, same to a lesser extent with shoes, jewellery and accessories - but it's hard to see how media and technology has a chance or anything else which doesn't depend on being up close to evaluate and is not perishable
 
Nobody buys CDs or DVDs anymore. The majority of people are downloading music, and subscribing to Netflix, and LoveFilms.
 
egb_hibs said:
Do you mean they should reduce tax?

It's remarkable we aren't in a lot worse mess given what Gordie bequeathed. What specifically should the coalition be doing that they aren't? If you do mean cutting taxes, that's one thing that could be tried, but I doubt they could get away with it politically. Is that what you meant?

The recession may have been the straw that broke the camels back, but the rest of the load was amazon and iTunes, and in jessops case, digital photography.

Well I gather the private sector has been creating jobs faster than the public sector has been shedding them. But the game is still a bogey. Unbreaking humpty dumpty is never going to be straightforward. Labour fucked the economy good and proper, blazing a trail in a world wide pattern of big banks and big governments - there's a very real prospect that things will never be the same again.

But while we can do this one to death again, it's still not the main thing that killed these particular shops. The real issue here is much more interesting - even if only cos we haven't done it so many times. i.e. the internet is rendering the traditional high street redundant.

I don't know about you, but the idea of venturing into town to buy a cd or book, navigating all the traffic carnage and paying through the nose for parking, is just not something I'm gonna do when I can download things in an instant and get referred stuff I would never otherwise have found.
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I don't disagree with you totally but in essence we will have to agree to disagree, or go over auld ground, which neither of us really have the will nor the time to endure.
 
egb_hibs said:
I don't know about you, but the idea of venturing into town to buy a cd or book, navigating all the traffic carnage and paying through the nose for parking, is just not something I'm gonna do when I can download things in an instant and get referred stuff I would never otherwise have found.
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is it really such an effort to go to a record shop or a book shop? first thing i do whenever i visit another city.

spend a fair bit of time browsing and shopping in edinburghs fine selection of independent record and book shops and enjoy doin so, there's at least three or four within walkin distance of my house in leith.

have never used amazon and wouldn't go near them.

havin said that admittedly i buy records which not so many folk do these days..
 
It's not an effort if I'm in town anyway - but to go for that purpose alone? Yes I'm afraid it is. Much more to the point amazon has exposed me to books of never have found in the celeb biography / Richard and judy book club fare at water stones

My problem with music is more profound - nothing I want to listen to which is a big hole as I used to love music
 
The one positive is that small record shops may actually prosper from this, as visiting a music shop to look through the albums before making a purchase will form part of vintage culture; creating a niche market.
 
A couple of years ago I went to a talk by Graham Jones, a man who has worked around record retailing for most of his life and wrote the book 'Last Shop Standing' detailing the huge loss of independent record stores. Seem to recall that the summer before last he was saying that HMV was definitely on shaky ground and that when they went through it might pretty well herald the final end of the CD. Interesting stuff.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Last-Shop-Standing-Whatever-Happened/dp/0956121209/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1358206828&sr=1-1
 
The end of shopping for physical goods may very soon be only a decade away. The future is 3d printing at home from a downloadable catalogue and "streaming" of every form of entertainment. I know, I have been to the trade fairs!
 
@EGB There was the The Other record shop a way along at the east end as well.

I remember the opening of HMV there was the Thompson twins and The Alarm signing autographs and Tiger Tim from The Untied Shoelaces Show doing competitions and stuff for the fowk queing up. That was the days when you had to go through a turnstile to get into Virgin.

These days are passed now...
 
Stu said:
A couple of years ago I went to a talk by Graham Jones, a man who has worked around record retailing for most of his life and wrote the book 'Last Shop Standing' detailing the huge loss of independent record stores. Seem to recall that the summer before last he was saying that HMV was definitely on shaky ground and that when they went through it might pretty well herald the final end of the CD. Interesting stuff.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Last-Shop-Standing-Whatever-Happened/dp/0956121209/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1358206828&sr=1-1
Click to expand...

Cheers for that, Stu. Could be useful research for something I'm working on.
 
Stirlinghibee said:
The end of shopping for physical goods may very soon be only a decade away. The future is 3d printing at home from a downloadable catalogue and "streaming" of every form of entertainment. I know, I have been to the trade fairs!
Click to expand...

Its going that way, and it's sad. Society is losing touch with each other, and everything is done by text, and email.
 
SuperTortolano said:
Its going that way, and it's sad. Society is losing touch with each other, and everything is done by text, and email.
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I'm not sure there's that much to regret here. There was a lot more to regret in the passing of local and specialist shops which respectively were hubs for geographic and interest-based communities.

They were killed by the temples of capitalism that are on the ropes now themselves. I'm not sure consumerism was ever going to be a durable basis for civic society, nor a desirable one. Other than regretting individuals loss of jobs I really find it hard to give a fuck here. The task before us is more interesting; what is the post capitalist high street and city?

We may even get more folk coming back to the football instead of the shops.
 
Stirlinghibee said:
It is indeed old boy. I always thought that hmv would survive because of it being the last of the "record" shops where teenage boys and girls could meet and talk about music, a nice subject of shared interest to get the conversation started.

Bring back the 70s !
Click to expand...

Really with all those problems ?

Jack said:
Carnage on the High Street.

The coalition are doing their best - its just not fucking good enough, not even close.

I'd still like the Union to be beyond 10 years, this and all the other shit makes me think otherwise.
Click to expand...

What have you been drinking ?

Dr Shrink said:
Best years of my life.

grandpa
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Me too bloody marvellous it was.

Carluke_Hibee said:
HMV and the rest of the music industry ripped us all off for long enough.
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So true.

Highland Hibby said:
@EGB There was the The Other record shop a way along at the east end as well.

I remember the opening of HMV there was the Thompson twins and The Alarm signing autographs and Tiger Tim from The Untied Shoelaces Show doing competitions and stuff for the fowk queing up. That was the days when you had to go through a turnstile to get into Virgin.

These days are passed now...
Click to expand...

That was owned by a Derek Wren and went bust a long time ago when he tried to take on Mr. Branson.
 
egb_hibs said:
Just thinking about it - does that mean there is nowhere for a mainstream punter to buy a CD in the town? (I know there are some specialist shops still).

What an incredible turnaround since HMV and Virgin were side by side and John Menzies and WH Smiths just a little bit along.

I agree with Greenmachine it's quite sad looking back to formative years spent in these shops. But I'm part of the problem - it's all click and download for me now.

And on one level I have no sympathy; apple and amazon are doing to these guys what they did to neighbourhood record and book shops.
Click to expand...

Agree. HMV and Virgin killed off the likes of Ards and Bandparts grandpa. Now downloading, supermarkets and Amazon are killing them off.

I still get much more enjoyment browsing through a record shop than buying online just as I get more pleasure reading a traditional book than on a kindle.

But HMVs stock particularly in recent years was very poor and hugely overpriced compared to Amazon.

End of an era. Will be interesting to see how Waterstones fare ?
 
PILTONSTANY said:
It's supermarkets that have done the most damage to music and book stores.

No long til it's only supermarkets,bookies,coffee and charity shops left.
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And Wetherspoons.

It's sad in lots of ways...Bonnyrigg High street has nothing that you would stop by for, other than a Greggs and a chemist and the pubs are decimated. Newtongrange is even worse - aside from a post office and a chemist - I'd never visit it in daylight hours.

Perhaps these towns are more susceptible because of their proximity to Edinburgh in general, and 24 hour superstores in particular. If you move further afield you see the same pattern evolving and local independents being wiped out. Sure, they are up in in arms initially when eg a Tesco Express moves in, but they all then use it.

About five years ago, the wife and I had a trip to Perth and what struck us about the High street was that you could have been anywhere in the UK as the shops were all the same chains, selling the same products. It makes for a grim experience.

However, the flip is that because of the internet you can buy almost anything and don't have to settle for what you can find in the shops. You want a purple tie? Great google it, and you'll find somewhere that will sell it. You don't have to settle for the green tie you find on the high street ergo, you don't bother going to the high street in the first place.

And now, you don't even have to leave your house for your weekly food shop.
 
Simple demand and supply. Survival of the fittest. Markets ALWAYS find a way. Thats the beauty of the econimic systems we use in the west.

As others in the thread have mentioned, this may actually be very good news for independant small shops. It matters not a jot to us consumers that the likes of HMV sink as they are too expensive - amazon etc are only doing to them what they did to others.

Amazon, apple etc get too wide or expensive? then others will take their place as market leads.

Cheaper prices for the consumer - which is what we all want.

EGB makes a very valid point re the future of the high street - whats it for?
 
Not sure anyone has mentioned the loophole Amazon et al exploit regarding postage from the Channel Islands etc. I understand this will not last, therefore pushing prices back up
 
Stu said:
Not sure anyone has mentioned the loophole Amazon et al exploit regarding postage from the Channel Islands etc. I understand this will not last, therefore pushing prices back up
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I did wonder what was going on, I know the physical cost of posting out a book is for example 1.30 if it's small enough and amazon just seem to absorb this. I noted they are pushing one day delivery to a collection point for 1.99 - I guessed that at some point the loophole/subsidising would stop.
 
Purple & Green said:
I did wonder what was going on, I know the physical cost of posting out a book is for example 1.30 if it's small enough and amazon just seem to absorb this. I noted they are pushing one day delivery to a collection point for 1.99 - I guessed that at some point the loophole/subsidising would stop.
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Seems like it's already in motion, Bobby.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/jan/09/play-closes-retail-business-vat-loophole

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/mar/15/vat-loophole-on-cds-closed
 
There are things that certainly need reformed - prices of ebooks and music need to come down to reflect lack of physical overheads.

Moreover the author / artist should be getting a bigger cut with the middlemen out of the loop - this is not happening due to amazon and apple strangleholds - and there is no one more ruthless than hippies in power.

But those will not stay monopolies forever and I'm optimistic it will happen. Likewise the challenge is thee to make city centres social rather than commercial hubs.

There is plenty upside here - at least potentially. There again there is an open question as to whether we have a shared culture beyond shopping these days. But that is not amazons problem or doing.
 
The mp3 itself killed HMV.

With the progress from vinyl to CD, sales were driven every year by people upgrading their collections to the new format. Who has paid cash for mp3 versions of all their favourite albums they have on CD except pensioners who only have half an idea about how their ipod works?
Mp3's have also made compilation albums redundant. Why buy a 15 compilation containing songs you may not even like when you can make a playlist?
Why buy the 3rd single from an album anymore? Over a million folk paid 4 to buy the 'Wonderwall' single 15 year ago, months after they already had the album. People were willing to shell out cos we like to collect physical objects plus it was the only place to hear 'Masterplan', can you name even one bside released since 2006 when downloads were counted in the chart?
Why buy a 'Best Of' when you already have the entire back catalogue of songs and can arrange them in any fashion you like. It was only 10 year ago The Beatles sold 25 million copies of a one disk singles collection. That'll be the last time a Greatest Hits gets anywhere near that total.

Its a great shame for HMV and a tragedy for Fopp but sometimes we've got to accept technoligical 'progress' always creates victims of the old gaurd.
 
What surprised me is that HMV as a business didn't adapt. Even an old fud like me could see where the industry was going. And with its market presence and brand HMV would have been ideally placed to take a lead in on-line sales and downloads if it had been prepared to move with the times, invest in new technologies and business solutions.

Business are going under in this recession -- eh, duh -- but HMV was going under sometime whatever the economic climate.

It will be interesting to see what happens with Argos over the next few years. They have taken some bold decisions on how they are going to retail and are dropping some of the practices that have served them well in the past. Gone are the catalogues and lots of the high street shops. They are now increasingly marketeing themselves as an on-line trader.

It's adapt or die.
 
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