Help!!! Crisis!!

[Kurt]

Abbott seems to have a problem relating to men. Bit sad really but typical of left wing identity politics. Stereotying and mostly completely wrong.

http://www.demos.co.uk/files/DianeAbbottspeech16May2013.pdf

If you can't be arsed reading all the way through this drivel here's some coverage:-

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jakewallissimons/100217446/diane-abbotts-confused-attack-on-men/

Robert Elms was uite good discussing it on the radio this morning.

What do you reckon. Are there any valid points in there?

Personally, I am very dubious about the whole concept of role models - most especially celebrity and sporting ones.

 

[SKII]

What do you reckon. Are there any valid points in there?

Personally, I am very dubious about the whole concept of role models - most especially celebrity and sporting ones.

Yes. She is right that we need more male teachers. Absolutely spot on the money - needed especially in primary but increasingly in the secondary sector too. An education delivered exclusively by one sex or the other is not healthy or in the interests of our children.

 

[Kurt]

Yes. She is right that we need more male teachers. Absolutely spot on the money - needed especially in primary but increasingly in the secondary sector too. An education delivered exclusively by one sex or the other is not healthy or in the interests of our children.

Yes, well, the debate on equality in the workplace seems to orientate entirely around getting Hoorah Henriettas onto company boards and into the BBC - and that includes from the left where the opportunities for working class women (and men) should be more of a concern.

 

[Brainwrong]

I took the time to read her presentation and, unless I was too inebriated at the time, I totally dug what she was saying and agreed with pretty much everything whe wrote/said.

P.S. No, I'm not pished at work. I read it on Saturday night.

Edit; I think there's a lack of role model, there's a lack of male identity, there's no right way to do shit but there are plenty wrong ways. There are myriad mixed messages. I think, and this is just me, that as we emancipate women and help define that they are not only housewifes or partners or babysitters, we're not at the same time defining what a man is or should be. Because at the same time that we're fighting the stereotypes attributed to women, we're not also redefining male roles which are essentially now taking up the slack of vacant housewife, partner, babysitter roles (that's slightly tongue in cheek!). Don't get me wrong, we need males to be involved, to be good dads, to share the load. But, I think we're in a transitory stage where most males/fathers around my age had dads that were the old skool version of dad/male so you're getting a lot of confused dads/males.

Having said that, there are plenty dads unaffected by this. I should perhaps think less.

 

[Kurt]

I'm not sure why I need to copy someone else. I just do things the way I think best. Isn't that kind of stereotyping rather in the dustbin.

 

[Brainwrong]

I'm not sure why I need to copy someone else. I just do things the way I think best. Isn't that kind of stereotyping rather in the dustbin.

I suppose that depends on whether you believe in nature or nurture. Saying someone copies someone else purely because they've essentially been taught that way is a slightly half arsed summation of the situation. If you don't think male role models or fathers have any effect on sons / men then I'm not surprised you think the bint in the OP is talking abject guff.

 

[MixuDave]

I can see my step fathers influence on me in my relationship with my daughter sometimes, and it is something I work very hard at eradicating tbh. I am very aware of his faults in my late childhood/early adulthood years, and the impact it had/has on me, and through hard work via counselling and sheer desire to ensure my gorgeous Erin never endures what I did, I like to think I do ok and I have a reasonably balanced and intelligent girl who knows and understands how much me and her mum love her, and that no matter what we will always love her and be there for her. So whilst I agree that in most cases a male influence plays a vital role in a young boys life, I for 1 wish I had not had the yin I ended up wie

 

[Brainwrong]

I can see my step fathers influence on me in my relationship with my daughter sometimes, and it is something I work very hard at eradicating tbh. I am very aware of his faults in my late childhood/early adulthood years, and the impact it had/has on me, and through hard work via counselling and sheer desire to ensure my gorgeous Erin never endures what I did, I like to think I do ok and I have a reasonably balanced and intelligent girl who knows and understands how much me and her mum love her, and that no matter what we will always love her and be there for her. So whilst I agree that in most cases a male influence plays a vital role in a young boys life, I for 1 wish I had not had the yin I ended up wie

Exactly and although not having a dad about has it's own set of problems, I think these are far more managabe than being exposed to an aloof or abusive father figure.

Either way, both scenarios effect boys & men immesurably.

 

[mikeythibs]

I'm not sure why I need to copy someone else. I just do things the way I think best. Isn't that kind of stereotyping rather in the dustbin.

So you don't subscribe to nurture? People - men and women - need good role models. We're not born with the inherent capacity to know right from wrong, we get our cues from other people, our parents, teachers, other adults. If we lack good role models we are greatly disadvantaged compared to others with positive role models.

Young men without a positive male role model in life generally do worse than those who have a positive role model in their lives. The stats are out there.

 

[Kurt]

So you don't subscribe to nurture? People - men and women - need good role models. We're not born with the inherent capacity to know right from wrong, we get our cues from other people, our parents, teachers, other adults. If we lack good role models we are greatly disadvantaged compared to others with positive role models.

Young men without a positive male role model in life generally do worse than those who have a positive role model in their lives. The stats are out there.

Of course but the role model concept is more than that, its emulating someone else not just using aspects of their example.

Women rebelled against the straight-jacket of traditional roles. I'm a bit surprised that any men would want to take up similar straight jackets.

 

[Kurt]

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...f-you-believe-what-you-see-on-tv-8654411.html

More knicker twisting from folk that define themselves in relation to the telly. Have to say, I'm super-cynical about this whole line of thinking. It is really of no material importance at all.