Headers

[moathibby]

Maybe get rid of them out the game?It would change the game fundamentally but it might save lives.

 

[Hammi]

Hard to argue when you see the evidence all these years later.

But, its such a big part of the game.

I dunno what we do

 

[greencol]

Thought it was a thread about Ryan.....

 

[Greenmachine]

Hard to argue when you see the evidence all these years later.

But, its such a big part of the game.

I dunno what we do

Exactly.
Cutting back on the amount of heading the ball at training is a start, but that is only going to have minimal effect in the long run....unless it's stopped completely at training sessions. I think that will happen sooner or later.

 

[paigntonhibby]

Hard to argue when you see the evidence all these years later.

But, its such a big part of the game.

I dunno what we do

Be like banning tackling in rugby,it would finish the game

 

[MeanwoodHibee]

I think heading could gradually be phased out and that wouldn't be a bad thing. Anyone who's played five asides where the ball isn't allowed to go above shoulder height has already played a header-free version of football. In kids' football there is very little heading as their natural reaction is to duck out of the way of the ball rather than voluntarily receive a heavy blow to head. Also the better juvenile clubs encourage teams to play the ball out from the back on the ground instead of the keeper restarting with a mighty punt downfield. I'd like to see a gradual ban starting with the younger age groups and steadily taking in older players as generations come through who've played the game without heading.

 

[WeeCountyHFC]

If they ban heading, whats to stop teams punting the ball all game knowing the defence cant head it... also they are no longer heading a half tonne soggy leather baw

 

[SuperTortolano]

I'd give up watching the game if they change it any more. Hate the softness of the game, hate VAR and this would just be the end for me.

 

[paigntonhibby]

Is there a way of finding out what % of footballers have suffered from dementia. Is it as bad as they say or is just because a few famous names have been diagnosed, I'm in no way trying to trivialise the effect it has on individual families.
And will current footballers suffer as much when they get older? taking into account how much lighter the ball is these days

 

[moathibby]

At least we're talking about it.

 

[Purple & Green]

Maybe get rid of them out the game?It would change the game fundamentally but it might save lives.

It becomes a foul to use your arm or head?

Probably not hard to adjust rules, but it feels the game as a spectacle would be very different.

Hard to argue with the research.

 

[moathibby]

After all it is called 'football'.Many's a time I've watched a midfield battle of 'head tennis' and thought 'for fuck sake bring it down on the ground'.

 

[Hammi]

After all it is called 'football'.Many's a time I've watched a midfield battle of 'head tennis' and thought 'for fuck sake bring it down on the ground'.

How many times have we seen wonderful headed goals?

It really would kill the game, hoofers would still have an upper hand because defenders can't deal with a hoof.

At grass roots and schoolboy stuff, definitely drop headers.
But once it starts getting more competitive, they're gonna need to learn to use their head.
It's one of the first things I remember being taught, eyes open, forehead through the ball.
Lose that and you're endangering yourself when you do challenge for a header, guarantee the eyes get shut and then you get a real head injury.

It's not up to the game to change, the precautions taken are what needs to be addressed.
I still think head knocks aren't taken serious enough, never mind contact with the ball.

 

[Norwayhibs]

How many times have we seen wonderful headed goals?

It really would kill the game, hoofers would still have an upper hand because defenders can't deal with a hoof.

At grass roots and schoolboy stuff, definitely drop headers.
But once it starts getting more competitive, they're gonna need to learn to use their head.
It's one of the first things I remember being taught, eyes open, forehead through the ball.
Lose that and you're endangering yourself when you do challenge for a header, guarantee the eyes get shut and then you get a real head injury.

It's not up to the game to change, the precautions taken are what needs to be addressed.
I still think head knocks aren't taken serious enough, never mind contact with the ball.

Sir David’s being the most wonderful

 

[Zab]

Hard to argue when you see the evidence all these years later.

But, its such a big part of the game.

I dunno what we do

Indeed. However surely a lot of things have changed about the game since those who are affected now played? The ball for one thing is completely different, the type of training has evolved over the years.

The steps they’ve taken to remove headed training sessions either side of a match day make sense. I’m not sure it needs to go any further than that, certainly not in respect to removing it from the game.

 

[Hammi]

Indeed. However surely a lot of things have changed about the game since those who are affected now played? The ball for one thing is completely different, the type of training has evolved over the years.

The steps they’ve taken to remove headed training sessions either side of a match day make sense. I’m not sure it needs to go any further than that, certainly not in respect to removing it from the game.

You'll see my other post too, I'm not looking or ever want to see it removed.
Huge part of the game.

I read an article a while back about the ball being different, while the ball itself is less dense, the speeds at which players connecting with the newer balls is still an issue. Heading a ball in full flight can be upwards of 70mph.
Thats a serious connection, even if its cushioned.

You're right though, the aftercare and awareness is where we need to improve.

 

[Jack K]

When I played as a defender in the late 70's and early 80's I used to hate having to head the opposition keepers kick outs. It was like a brick landing on your heid. How much lighter is the modern day match ball compared to the Mitre ball I played with?

 

[Hammi]

When I played as a defender in the late 70's and early 80's I used to hate having to head the opposition keepers kick outs. It was like a brick landing on your heid. How much lighter is the modern day match ball compared to the Mitre ball I played with?

An Enduring Football Myth: The Weight of the Ball – More Than Mind Games

www.morethanmindgames.com

According to this... Not much

 

[Norwayhibs]

You'll see my other post too, I'm not looking or ever want to see it removed.
Huge part of the game.

I read an article a while back about the ball being different, while the ball itself is less dense, the speeds at which players connecting with the newer balls is still an issue. Heading a ball in full flight can be upwards of 70mph.
Thats a serious connection, even if its cushioned.

You're right though, the aftercare and awareness is where we need to improve.

Last nights England v Wales game Neco Williams took a sore one to the head after getting in the way of a shot. He was absolutely poleaxed and tried to play on but had to be substituted. Protecting your goal , that’s what players do. Take that away from the game and it won’t be the same.

Awareness and aftercare is the road we need to go down

 

[Greenmachine]

When I played for my school team, various boys clubs, and with my mates when I was in my teens and early 20's I never mastered the art of heading the ball. It's one of the reasons I so admire players who can head the ball well and defenders who are brave in the air. I could just never do it. What made it worse was that all the coaches would think because I am a big guy (6ft 2") that I would automatically be good in the air (and they would give me a hard time because of it), but it was the exact opposite for me. I always hated the ball coming off my head. Your head being hit by a solid moving object regularly is not good at all. Look how many boxers have ended up with Alzeimers and other dementia related illnesses in later life.

Something has to be done given the medical evidence, and this move is a start. Like others have said though, I don't think heading the ball will ever be removed from the game as it is such a big part of what makes football so enthralling. I do think heading the ball in training could be eliminated though, or very much reduced in the years to come.

 

[Jack K]

An Enduring Football Myth: The Weight of the Ball – More Than Mind Games

www.morethanmindgames.com

According to this... Not much

Only upside on weight is the modern ball takes on less water.

 

[Zab]

Last nights England v Wales game Neco Williams took a sore one to the head after getting in the way of a shot. He was absolutely poleaxed and tried to play on but had to be substituted. Protecting your goal , that’s what players do. Take that away from the game and it won’t be the same.

Awareness and aftercare is the road we need to go down

Football really needs to introduce a proper concussion protocol. Any player with a head injury should have to be removed from the pitch for at least 10 minutes to get properly assessed, with a temporary substitute allowed.

That may be open to abuse from the more “streetwise” managers out there, but it would also stop players faking head injuries as they’d have to go off.

More importantly it reduces the risk of a concussed player remaining on the park.

 

[Bangkokhibby]

Football really needs to introduce a proper concussion protocol. Any player with a head should have to be removed from the pitch for at least 10 minutes to get properly assessed, with a temporary substitute allowed.

That may be open to abuse from the more “streetwise” managers out there, but it would also stop players faking head injuries as they’d have to go off.

More importantly it reduces the risk of a concussed player remaining on the park.

Great post. We can't afford to miss any possible concussions or real head injuries so get them all off the pitch for 10 minutes as you say. Stop the cheating at a stroke (pardon the pun)

 

[moathibby]

Remember this is a game where guy's used to wear caps, baggie pants and big heavy boots.It's an evolving sport.We're going to have to take on VAR,like it or lump it,we wound find some way of taking on the game without headers.

 

[Rocky]

I would have thought that the biggest risk comes from the balls that have been shelled up into the atmosphere then the centre half has to go for it as it whacks off his napper at terminal velocity. I wonder if there might be an option to only allow headers where the ball has been played backwards (eg from a corner or bye-line cross). The downside is that that would also rule out headers from balls which have been whipped in from the 18 yard line but it might be a compromise.

 

[Jack K]

Football really needs to introduce a proper concussion protocol. Any player with a head injury should have to be removed from the pitch for at least 10 minutes to get properly assessed, with a temporary substitute allowed.

That may be open to abuse from the more “streetwise” managers out there, but it would also stop players faking head injuries as they’d have to go off.

More importantly it reduces the risk of a concussed player remaining on the park.

It's another use for VAR.
It's no substitute for a medical assessment but it would show the level of contact.
There have been some hellish head clashes in the Wotld Cup where players have played on before having to go off.
Looking at the replays with VAR could see a decision to enforce a 10 minute assessment time out.
The VAR footage could then be send to the medical team on the touchline so they can see the collision which would help inform their physical assessment.

 

[Jack K]

I would have thought that the biggest risk comes from the balls that have been shelled up into the atmosphere then the centre half has to go for it as it whacks off his napper at terminal velocity. I wonder if there might be an option to only allow headers where the ball has been played backwards (eg from a corner or bye-line cross). The downside is that that would also rule out headers from balls which have been whipped in from the 18 yard line but it might be a compromise.

That's interesting.
What about the goalkeeper not being allowed to shell the ball from hand or from a byekick
That would eliminate a high percentage of the out the sky stuff.

 

[Rocky]

That's interesting.
What about the goalkeeper not being allowed to shell the ball from hand or from a byekick
That would eliminate a high percentage of the out the sky stuff.

I think that would be my preference, I'm just not sure how you could write a clear enough rule on it (same issue with permitting the keeper to shell it but not allowing the first touch on a shelled ball to be a header). Plus I do think the long ball has its place as a counterattacking move.

 

[Zab]

It's another use for VAR.
It's no substitute for a medical assessment but it would show the level of contact.
There have been some hellish head clashes in the Wotld Cup where players have played on before having to go off.
Looking at the replays with VAR could see a decision to enforce a 10 minute assessment time out.
The VAR footage could then be send to the medical team on the touchline so they can see the collision which would help inform their physical assessment.

Absolutely not. They can’t get simple penalty decisions correct with VAR, never mind assessing something that could potentially put someone’s life in danger.

Just have a proper concussion protocol, off the pitch immediately with a temporary substitute. It’s really not hard

 

[Hammi]

I would have thought that the biggest risk comes from the balls that have been shelled up into the atmosphere then the centre half has to go for it as it whacks off his napper at terminal velocity. I wonder if there might be an option to only allow headers where the ball has been played backwards (eg from a corner or bye-line cross). The downside is that that would also rule out headers from balls which have been whipped in from the 18 yard line but it might be a compromise.

I dont think a ball falling would reach those speeds.
Not from any kickable height at least.

 

[Jack K]

Absolutely not. They can’t get simple penalty decisions correct with VAR, never mind assessing something that could potentially put someone’s life in danger.

Just have a proper concussion protocol, off the pitch immediately with a temporary substitute. It’s really not hard

That's why I said VAR is no substitute for a medical assessment but it can provide useful footage to the medical teams on the ground who are treating a player by allowing them to see the collision. It could form part of best practice aspect of a concussion protocol.

 

[Zab]

That's why I said VAR is no substitute for a medical assessment but it can provide useful footage to the medical teams on the ground who are treating a player by allowing them to see the collision. It could form part of best practice aspect of a concussion protocol.

I wouldn’t muddy the waters with VAR, it doesn’t work properly in a sporting context. It’s not just top level football that need a concussion protocol, should be all the way down to grassroots.