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Goverment costs and our future

Davy

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Having worked for many years in social care, I got to wondering how the government can/will be able to afford to pay everything they currently pay. After all it is estimated we will soon have a population where the majority of people are over 50. Think for a minute about what the government cover through taxes

Military, hospitals, (NHS as a whole) schools, prisons, prescriptions, civil servants, care homes, care in community. Roads, bridges, all forms of benefits including housing benefit, customs, coastguard, Parliament, Police, expenses, Royalty etc etc and I have probably only scratched the surface

Now if we achieved independence we might be able to slash military and Royalty spending: however we still have an ageing population and quite a hefty NHS bill due to bad health and drug/alcohol abuse, and medication for depression also costs millions a year.

I will also say at this point councils are quite adept at wasting money. For example having worked in a homeless hostel, one example of waste saw was a guy who had a house fire in his council tenement flat. A year later at a cost of almost £1k a week he was still living in the hostel awaiting the council to fix the smoke damage to his flat. They could have built a brand new house for the money used to keep him in a bedroom! I know of many people who have been on Methadone for over 20 years.. where is the programme to get them drug free? Care in the community involves on average 4 health visitors for every 4-5 clients as they work shift patterns. Sadly aa lot of the people visited are living very lonely and isolated lives and would actually benefit from being in care homes, but that is a different debate.

Scotland unlike England also give out free prescriptions and do not take tolls for bridges, but these costs are simply raised through taxes. In 2012 it cost on average £92 per day to hold one prisoner..more than double our European counterparts. This based on 6k prison population of Scotland equates to £190.5m a year.

Anyway the point is, going forward, despite the fact we hear the government saying they will find an extra billion or so for various projects...are we going bust ?
 
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southfieldhibby

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We need more immigrants and folk to have kids to save the country,easy as that.
True, but also as a nation we're unhealthy to the extremes. Fags/bevvy/illegal drugs cost loads in health and social care. Changing an entire nations attitude towards getting fucked up is also a big challenge.

More immigration, more kids, higher wages, maybe stop getting everything for 'free', legalise drugs, reduce alcohol and fag consumption and we're barry.
 

Jack

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The government needs to work smarter and get more bang for its buck, or less bang from nuclear weapons.

The care in the community you spoke of are people at the high end of being dependent on care. What needs to happen is those further down the chain only get care when its needed (although that impacts on the social element verses interference and your care home debate). Great strides have been made in Scotland reducing the length of time people are dependent on care and it's intensity at the end of their lives. Some of that comes from cheap (for the NHS and free on prescription) heart and cholesterol busting pills meaning very expensive heart attack and stroke hospital and recovery care and time is much reduced.

The increasing use of telehealth and telecare is another example in healthcare. The old fashioned way was for carers and 'community nurses' to go round all the clients/patients, most were fine, some more upset by the constant intrusion. Lets say that's around 25/30 patients (can't remember proper figures). With the effective use of telehealth and telecare this can be increased to over 130! Home visits and GP/hospital consultations being carried out via a video link where practical would save huge amounts of time all round. There are hundreds of possibilities.
 

Ryan69

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And still also pay £1 billion a month to the EU.

All because parliament didnt like the democratic choice.
 

Purple & Green

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Some things surprise you. Apparently the youth of today drink a significant amount less of alcohol than my generation did. This is good.

Areas of Scotland suffer from depopulation primarily due to a lack of work I'd opine. We need to address that, but the government is running things for the benefit of the fifth country of the UK - the south east and London. So we aren't able to do things that would allow us to compete with the rest of the UK on a level playing field. Or the rest of the world.

Can we afford it? Probably, but there will be hard choices. The choices will be different if they aren't taken by a conservative government in London, for sure.
 

Green juventine

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True, but also as a nation we're unhealthy to the extremes. Fags/bevvy/illegal drugs cost loads in health and social care. Changing an entire nations attitude towards getting fucked up is also a big challenge.

More immigration, more kids, higher wages, maybe stop getting everything for 'free', legalise drugs, reduce alcohol and fag consumption and we're barry.
Don't forget supporting Hibs, that's not good for your health at the moment. :cryy:
 

Westside Green

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A junkie told me Methadone and little bits of this and that was nearly as good as smack. Why would he want to find the money to fund his habit when he could have a state sponsored one? I've seen 3 generation families in getting their medicine, maybe it's cost effective and keeps them under control but it's certainly not about getting them drug free.
 

Rocky

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Having worked for many years in social care, I got to wondering how the government can/will be able to afford to pay everything they currently pay. After all it is estimated we will soon have a population where the majority of people are over 50. Think for a minute about what the government cover through taxes

Military, hospitals, (NHS as a whole) schools, prisons, prescriptions, civil servants, care homes, care in community. Roads, bridges, all forms of benefits including housing benefit, customs, coastguard, Parliament, Police, expenses, Royalty etc etc and I have probably only scratched the surface

Now if we achieved independence we might be able to slash military and Royalty spending: however we still have an ageing population and quite a hefty NHS bill due to bad health and drug/alcohol abuse, and medication for depression also costs millions a year.

I will also say at this point councils are quite adept at wasting money. For example having worked in a homeless hostel, one example of waste saw was a guy who had a house fire in his council tenement flat. A year later at a cost of almost £1k a week he was still living in the hostel awaiting the council to fix the smoke damage to his flat. They could have built a brand new house for the money used to keep him in a bedroom! I know of many people who have been on Methadone for over 20 years.. where is the programme to get them drug free? Care in the community involves on average 4 health visitors for every 4-5 clients as they work shift patterns. Sadly aa lot of the people visited are living very lonely and isolated lives and would actually benefit from being in care homes, but that is a different debate.

Scotland unlike England also give out free prescriptions and do not take tolls for bridges, but these costs are simply raised through taxes. In 2012 it cost on average £92 per day to hold one prisoner..more than double our European counterparts. This based on 6k prison population of Scotland equates to £190.5m a year.

Anyway the point is, going forward, despite the fact we hear the government saying they will find an extra billion or so for various projects...are we going bust ?
I think you raise some very valid points and how I wish this was the national debate instead of fecking brexit. I'm dubious about a couple of your facts though, can you substantiate them? I'm not saying they're wrong, just like to do a little fact checking in the current climate of utter nonsense being passed off as facts. In particular, a grand a week to stay in a hostel? And a (more or less) one to one relationship between care workers and clients?

Regardless of those the point is still valid and an imbalance in population demographic is something of a time bomb. If I were a politician I'd set two criteria for economic success:
- a pensioner should be able to retire with an average of 20% of average life expectancy left on 50% of average salary
- someone on average salary should be able to afford to buy a three bed semi

Everything else is just noise imo. I'm not a full on commie. I'm fine with people who win life's lottery having bigger and nicer houses, and those who lose having their kids sharing bedrooms. And make no mistake it is a lottery, if you're born with intelligence, a good upbringing and a solid work ethic you'll do ok. That's just luck though, it doesn't mean you're superior to anyone else.

Anyway, the point is that if you set objectives like I suggest, then your economic policies follow suit. So yes, as life expectancy increases, so should retirement age (gradually!) And if house prices go crazy you need policies that bring them down. Do that and you free up income to put towards savings, improving retirement income. And so on

Tbh I only came on to query your facts but appear to have made up a manifesto in the process.
 

Chester Perry

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Well the way Trump, Putin and Bawjaws are conducting their pissing contest, overpopulation might not be an issue much longer.
Think between them Rees Mogg and Boris have over 10 kids. Trump, he’s got a few, including a daughter/wife.
 

Nex

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Things like not spending 8 billion of Scottish money and rising on mishandled highspeed rail projects for South and Middle England for one?
 

Davy

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Not got time for big reply as I am tired and off to bed in a min. Couple of things though I will try to respond to. Yes I do think we need immigration as most families seem to be having 2 kids or less...yes some have more but I think the old average of 2.4 has plummeted. Not only that many Brits and/or Scots move abroad, both my Sister and Nephew have moved to New Zealand with their respective partners, after they got their training for Doctor and Nursing here. So as many many move abroad then yes we need incomers. Of course we would all prefer incomers who will work here and help keep the economy flowing. However I don't know that it will solve all our problems as much as tackling the key questions of health, diet etc.

Methadone indeed gets few people drug free...I always thought it was supposed to be part of a recovery programme but perhaps I was wrong. This article vaguely points to a recovery programme Effects of Methadone
It does seem one council is having a go at changing peoples views by making the supplier financially responsible Council wants new drug service to reduce city's 900 methadone users However it appears to be more about cutting budgets than looking for a genuine recovery effort.

The cost of prison was from various websites such as this one https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/563326/costs-per-place-cost-per-prisoner-2015-16.pdf

Or this one which stated that the average cost is £30k per year per prisoner, equating at £82 per day if my maths are correct, and more if they are in Strangeways.

As to price of hostels, well they vary depending on the service provided and perhaps I overshot the actual figure. I worked in a hostel which provides meal and general support. The rent and money from supporting people came to around £550 per week per person. I can find out the exact figure. Many of those homeless of course received a wide variance of benefits, the lowest being jobseekers allowance of around £70 per week. Extreme cases of some receiving between £700-£1000 a month for the highest disability benefits. They would receive that even if they had their own homes.

Yes it is pretty obvious why the goverment wish to put up retirement age, though that shouldn't get them off the hook for messing up pensions.

Perhaps the Tram project will bring us huge financial benefits :S
 

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