General Election; not far away....

[jock3]

Not long until the General election, which reminds me I need tae register. Which way will you go? Is it time up for 'Dumb and Dumber' Clegg and Cameron? Have the public had enough of austerity, dismantling the NHS, zero hours contracts, bedroom tax, dodgy foreign policy and... the list is endless! Will Ed Milliband grow a pair and pledge to rebuild the economy, get young people back to work, support the unions, go after the tax dodgers and stop spending on dodgy overseas conflicts? Is the presses love affair with Nigel 'radge' Farage's party's insane ramblings just a smokescreen to take the spotlight off the huge shift of wealth to the super-rich????

I know there will be a lot of SNP supporters on here; guys I love Scotland and miss it like hell being on a 30 year exile.... But the problem is the economic system not Westminster I believe. Mind you there is talk of a Labour/SNP alliance now that would be interesting?

Let the debate begin........

 

[1 Mcnamara]

Whoever gets the yes for no. 10 it will be the same old , same old yet again. Tax breaks for the rich, big business running the country, America dictating our foreign policy and banks getting bailed out. Meanwhile the rank and file will get screwed to the ground at every opportunity , the NHS will get slowly privatised, less policeman, less teachers , less doctors, less bin men ,more nukes, and more fracking, I could go on, and on , and on.

We had our chance to change things here in Scotland last year, 55% decided what we have is great so I'm afraid we are stuck with it , in my lifetime anyway. I will vote SNP but I fear the Tories will rule again. I'm not sure labour want in power. If they did they wouldn't put Milliband up front would they ?

 

[Dub]

Whoever gets the yes for no. 10 it will be the same old , same old yet again. Tax breaks for the rich, big business running the country, America dictating our foreign policy and banks getting bailed out. Meanwhile the rank and file will get screwed to the ground at every opportunity , the NHS will get slowly privatised, less policeman, less teachers , less doctors, less bin men ,more nukes, and more fracking, I could go on, and on , and on.

We had our chance to change things here in Scotland last year, 55% decided what we have is great so I'm afraid we are stuck with it , in my lifetime anyway. I will vote SNP but I fear the Tories will rule again. I'm not sure labour want in power. If they did they wouldn't put Milliband up front would they ?

We know :

 

[1 Mcnamara]

We know :

Ya cheeky c u next Tuesday.

 

[LunaCWsauzee]

After the severe boot tae the baws that September gave me I'll vote SNP in the hope we can get as near to Home Rule (Devo Max in my book) as we can get.

 

[Greenmachine]

Despite what the polls are currently saying I have a feeling that the Tories will win an overall majority in May. I think the threat from UKIP has been overplayed and will ultimately come to nothing once people see through them during the campaign, and I think the thought of Miliband being Prime Minister will be enough to persuade most people in the crucial English marginal seats to vote Tory. I also think Labour will be (deservedly) decimated in Scotland by the SNP.

I voted No in the referendum last year for various reasons, but I will be voting SNP in May. The "vow" was an insult to the intelligence of the Scottish people and the subsequent patronising "reccomendations" from the Smith Commission about what powers the scottish parliament was going to be "allowed" to have has more or less made my mind up.

 

[Desperate Dan]

I will be voting SNP tae remove sheila gilmore in Edinburgh east. One of the worst MP's at representing her constituents, nowt mair than a westmonster gravy train rider. Edinburgh east had the biggest YES vote of any area in Edinburgh, hopefully that vote will translate in tae SNP votes as people are now aware of the kind of MP she is and what that party represents.

 

[StevieC]

I will be voting SNP, and hoping enough people do to give us at least 40 seats.

I have no confidence in Labour/Milliband. They just seem so desperate to get in they are spouting as much nonesense as they can, based on what they think the electorate wants to hear. The "vote labour or get the Tories" line is condescending beyond belief!
To be honest I've lived through enough Tory governments that one more term wouldn't really bother me.

 

[SKII]

I will be voting SNP tae remove sheila gilmore in Edinburgh east. One of the worst MP's at representing her constituents, nowt mair than a westmonster gravy train rider. Edinburgh east had the biggest YES vote of any area in Edinburgh, hopefully that vote will translate in tae SNP votes as people are now aware of the kind of MP she is and what that party represents.

Interestingly, I have had her at my door three times in the last 3 months asking what issues are important to me or my immediate community. Not her canvassers but actually her in person. Has also phoned the house after coming to the door and not getting anyone in. The only other political person who has ever knocked on my door is the Green MSP Maggie Chapman. She has been to the door more than once too.

 

[Jack]

I will be voting SNP, and hoping enough people do to give us at least 40 seats.

I have no confidence in Labour/Milliband. They just seem so desperate to get in they are spouting as much nonesense as they can, based on what they think the electorate wants to hear. The "vote labour or get the Tories" line is condescending beyond belief!
To be honest I've lived through enough Tory governments that one more term wouldn't really bother me.

I think you're right.

Also I think a big SNP presence, perhaps even holding the balance of power, will do more for Scotland and probably the wider UK than this ineffectual Labour are likely to achieve - even if they were in power. They look like the red Torys and there's nothing to suggest that would change if they got power and they achieved the square root of fuck all in opposition.

Have the SNP said they would form a coalition with Labour or would it be on a supportive policy for policy basis? There's been some chat but I'm not sure this has been made clear.

What would be the SNP demands of Labour be to work together to form a government or to bring down a minority Tory government?

How much would Labour sell out, what's left of their soul, for?

 

[Dub]

I think you're right.

Also I think a big SNP presence, perhaps even holding the balance of power, will do more for Scotland and probably the wider UK than this ineffectual Labour are likely to achieve - even if they were in power. They look like the red Torys and there's nothing to suggest that would change if they got power and they achieved the square root of fuck all in opposition.

Have the SNP said they would form a coalition with Labour or would it be on a supportive policy for policy basis? There's been some chat but I'm not sure this has been made clear.

What would be the SNP demands of Labour be to work together to form a government or to bring down a minority Tory government?

How much would Labour sell out, what's left of their soul, for?

They would do anything to get into power, make any promises that needed to be made and then backtrack as much as they could once they were actually in the hot seat.

So, similar to the referendum campaign then :coffee:

 

[StevieC]

Have the SNP said they would form a coalition with Labour

Neither party will talk of coalition at this stage, it would be suicide to do so. They will all be taking the line that they will have a sufficient majority that they will not need a coalition.
Once the votes are all in and counted though, and there's not a clear majority, that's when coalition talk will take centre stage.

 

[Smurf]

I will be voting SNP tae remove sheila gilmore in Edinburgh east. One of the worst MP's at representing her constituents, nowt mair than a westmonster gravy train rider. Edinburgh east had the biggest YES vote of any area in Edinburgh, hopefully that vote will translate in tae SNP votes as people are now aware of the kind of MP she is and what that party represents.

I would love to hear you expand on that giving examples because my experience and of others I know is of a conscientious hard working MP.

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Interestingly, I have had her at my door three times in the last 3 months asking what issues are important to me or my immediate community. Not her canvassers but actually her in person. Has also phoned the house after coming to the door and not getting anyone in. The only other political person who has ever knocked on my door is the Green MSP Maggie Chapman. She has been to the door more than once too.

She's been at my door too. I needed her assistance on something and I was very impressed by how promptly she dealt with things. In London a few years back she got me tickets for PMQ's and asked me to meet her for a coffee that I couldn't make due to other commitments.

The SNP spin machine is in full control of potraying all Labour politicians as lazy, uncaring and liars that have betrayed Scotland.

No doubt that many within The Labour Party in Scotland became complacent but I'm confident that the majority have entered politics with good intentions and with motivations to serve the poorest in particular.

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Neither party will talk of coalition at this stage, it would be suicide to do so. They will all be taking the line that they will have a sufficient majority that they will not need a coalition.
Once the votes are all in and counted though, and there's not a clear majority, that's when coalition talk will take centre stage.

Not a hope in hells chance will the SNP enter into coalition at UK level the year before Holyrood elections where they are heading for a landslide...

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And I will be voting Labour because they offer the best alternative to a Tory Government.

I do laugh at how down south Ed Miliband who I don't particularly rate is potrayed as this most left wing leader since Michael Foot yet up here SNP activists have him as a Tory in disguise...

I think we are heading for;

Tories to get most UK votes
Labour to get more seats than The Tories
Ed Miliband as PM of a minority Labour government with concessions given to small number of Lib Dems and much larger Scottish Nationalists.
Maximum of four UKIP MP's.
Maximum of 25 SNP MP's.

 

[SKII]

She's been at my door too. I needed her assistance on something and I was very impressed by how promptly she dealt with things. In London a few years back she got me tickets for PMQ's and asked me to meet her for a coffee that I couldn't make due to other commitments.

She came canvassing in late Nov/Dec just as I was headed out to the Hibs game. She handed in a leaflet and said "I'll come back at a more convenient time if you want to discuss anything in the leaflet"...which I interpreted as "that'll be the last time we see you before May" (as you do).

Another few weeks went by and she turns up one Friday night when only one of the kids were in. He's old enough to vote but did the usual teen thing saying his folks weren't in, trying to get rid of the political person on the doorstep. She told him she had promised to come back and answer questions and would try again another time. She gave him a card with her email address etc saying we were just to get in touch if there was anything we wanted answered. I thought that would definitely be the end of it but she was as good as her word and ended up on the doorstep again earlier this month.

I did my Andrew Marr bit about two or three "specialist subjects" and she went on her way.

I've lived in this area for nearly 28 years. Never ever saw Gavin Strang. Never saw Susan Deacon either... though I once met her in a professional capacity. Green's Maggie Chapman comes round every pre-election and has done for years. The person I have genuinely seen most of is actually Gilmore. It's a funny old world...

 

[Smurf]

She came canvassing in late Nov/Dec just as I was headed out to the Hibs game. She handed in a leaflet and said "I'll come back at a more convenient time if you want to discuss anything in the leaflet"...which I interpreted as "that'll be the last time we see you before May" (as you do).

Another few weeks went by and she turns up one Friday night when only one of the kids were in. He's old enough to vote but did the usual teen thing saying his folks weren't in, trying to get rid of the political person on the doorstep. She told him she had promised to come back and answer questions and would try again another time. She gave him a card with her email address etc saying we were just to get in touch if there was anything we wanted answered. I thought that would definitely be the end of it but she was as good as her word and ended up on the doorstep again earlier this month.

I did my Andrew Marr bit about two or three "specialist subjects" and she went on her way.

I've lived in this area for nearly 28 years. Never ever saw Gavin Strang. Never saw Susan Deacon either... though I once met her in a professional capacity. Green's Maggie Chapman comes round every pre-election and has done for years. The person I have genuinely seen most of is actually Gilmore. It's a funny old world...

How was she in the Andrew Marr bit?

 

[GORDONSMITH7]

Interestingly, I have had her at my door three times in the last 3 months asking what issues are important to me or my immediate community. Not her canvassers but actually her in person. Has also phoned the house after coming to the door and not getting anyone in. The only other political person who has ever knocked on my door is the Green MSP Maggie Chapman. She has been to the door more than once too.

I have said on here before that she has come to my door several times over the past years and mainly not at election times, always on her tod with a wee backpack on. Probably not what most politicians do.

BIG G

 

[Smurf]

I have said on here before that she has come to my door several times over the past years and mainly not at election times, always on her tod with a wee backpack on. Probably not what most politicians do.

BIG G

Yet apparently she's one of the worst MP's at representing her constituencies.

 

[SKII]

I have said on here before that she has come to my door several times over the past years and mainly not at election times, always on her tod with a wee backpack on. Probably not what most politicians do.

BIG G

Yep, fits the description here too.

How was she in the Andrew Marr bit?

Not bad. Less slippery than some customers. One of my key questions always is from my stongest hand (education) which is a devolved issue but she offered her own thoughts before wanting to also put me in touch with Iain Gray on the last visit. Said she would pass on my concerns or she would put in touch with him directly so I could have a chat with him re my concerns.

 

[Nex]

Certainly I'll be interested in seeing how much attention is given to the UKIP media circus compared to the SNP and Greens here in Scotland. Especially if the final results show UKIP below or only just scraping ahead of the Greens.

As for Labour vs Tories, does it even matter which wins? They are both nigh on identical. They were pretty much identical before but the gap seems to be ever closing.

There are a handful of select subjects which the two disagree on but at the end of the day the major stuff that means the most for people in the UK (and even more so in Scotland specifically) they both read from the same hymn sheet.

 

[Smurf]

Certainly I'll be interested in seeing how much attention is given to the UKIP media circus compared to the SNP and Greens here in Scotland. Especially if the final results show UKIP below or only just scraping ahead of the Greens.

As for Labour vs Tories, does it even matter which wins? They are both nigh on identical. They were pretty much identical before but the gap seems to be ever closing.

There are a handful of select subjects which the two disagree on but at the end of the day the major stuff that means the most for people in the UK (and even more so in Scotland specifically) they both read from the same hymn sheet.

Labour and the Tories identical. Keep saying it and believing in it.

Are you seriously saying that the kind of society Ed Miliband wants to see is the same as David Cameron wants to see?

 

[Desperate Dan]

Interestingly, I have had her at my door three times in the last 3 months asking what issues are important to me or my immediate community. Not her canvassers but actually her in person. Has also phoned the house after coming to the door and not getting anyone in. The only other political person who has ever knocked on my door is the Green MSP Maggie Chapman. She has been to the door more than once too.

Well she's never been tae my door once. I've been in touch with her 3 times about different issues since she's been elected and 3 times I've had a stock reply, maybe the issues didnae suit her.

 

[aggie]

They would do anything to get into power, make any promises that needed to be made and then backtrack as much as they could once they were actually in the hot seat.

So, similar to the referendum campaign then :coffee:

This. Witness Gordon Brown's ultimately empty grandstanding about "federalism" and "home rule".

As for Ed Miliband - do me a favour. About as authoritative and convincing as the president of a student union.

 

[Dub]

This. Witness Gordon Brown's ultimately empty grandstanding about "federalism" and "home rule".

As for Ed Miliband - do me a favour. About as authoritative and convincing as the president of a student union.

For which he allegedly received 350,000.00 but I can't confirm that.

 

[Desperate Dan]

For which he allegedly received 350,000.00 but I can't confirm that.

Tae be fair though, he would have done it for nowt.

 

[MixuDave]

Labour and the Tories identical. Keep saying it and believing in it.

Are you seriously saying that the kind of society Ed Miliband wants to see is the same as David Cameron wants to see?

Voted together on austerity and trident no? Campaigned together for the Union also no?

 

[Smurf]

Voted together on austerity and trident no? Campaigned together for the Union also no?

Your former comment isn't strictly true. On Trident and on the Union yes they agree.

The most left wing government in British history the Clement Atlee one gave us nuclear weapons, necessary austerity and indeed believed in the UK so was that government no different from the Tories?

 

[southfieldhibby]

Your former comment isn't strictly true. On Trident and on the Union yes they agree.

The most left wing government in British history the Clement Atlee one gave us nuclear weapons, necessary austerity and indeed believed in the UK so was that government no different from the Tories?

He also created The NHS.Don't compare possibly the greatest ever PM with any of todays politicians Kenny, it just silly.

Atlee lived at the start of the Cold Cold war, his motives for Nukes were sounder than the ones used today.I'd take a punt his pov on that might be different today.He also oversaw independence for India did he not?

 

[MixuDave]

Your former comment isn't strictly true. On Trident and on the Union yes they agree.

The most left wing government in British history the Clement Atlee one gave us nuclear weapons, necessary austerity and indeed believed in the UK so was that government no different from the Tories?

In what way did they not vote together on austerity? And Mark saved me typing out something similar. To compare the Labour Party of today, with the one the exsists now, is silly beyond belief! Do you think James Keir Hardie would approve of Nu Labour Kenny?

 

[Smurf]

He also created The NHS.Don't compare possibly the greatest ever PM with any of todays politicians Kenny, it just silly.

Atlee lived at the start of the Cold Cold war, his motives for Nukes were sounder than the ones used today.I'd take a punt his pov on that might be different today.He also oversaw independence for India did he not?

Well you kind of made my point for me. He created the NHS. He properly created the Welfare State. He nationalised state industries like coal that were profiteering and shafting workers. He was indeed a remarkable PM.

If he was alive today who knows whether he would in this increasingly uncertain world look to unilaterally give up our nuclear deterrent? I suspect though with Russia flexing her muscles and their planes and submarines ever increasingly encroaching in UK space I doubt it.

My point stands that saying Labour and the Tories are the same is just daft. If they are just the same why won't the SNP rule out propping up a UK Labout government in the way they have the Tories?

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In what way did they not vote together on austerity? And Mark saved me typing out something similar. To compare the Labour Party of today, with the one the exsists now, is silly beyond belief! Do you think James Keir Hardie would approve of Nu Labour Kenny?

The vote was a daft Tory stunt. Most serious political commentators acknowledge that. The Labout Party is essentially no different today. It's always been a mixture of socialists and social democrats. And the Labour Party today is hardly New Labour!

 

[southfieldhibby]

Well you kind of made my point for me. He created the NHS. He properly created the Welfare State. He nationalised state industries like coal that were profiteering and shafting workers. He was indeed a remarkable PM.

If he was alive today who knows whether he would in this increasingly uncertain world look to unilaterally give up our nuclear deterrent? I suspect though with Russia flexing her muscles and their planes and submarines ever increasingly encroaching in UK space I doubt it.

My point stands that saying Labour and the Tories are the same is just daft. If they are just the same why won't the SNP rule out propping up a UK Labout government in the way they have the Tories?

If your point was that Labour bears zero resemblance to the party of 1950 then I did indeed. Todays two main parties are like the American parties, one slightly further right than the other, both backed by big business, one just more so. It's like Democrat vs Republican.They're not the same but at least you can say the the Conservative party are true to the roots of their party, not something Labour can say.

As for the SNP question, that's politiking and fine well you know it.

 

[Jack]

For which he allegedly received 350,000.00 but I can't confirm that.

I look forward to hearing of him donating that to party funds.






Or more likely hearing that he's joined the Scottish Conservatives!

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Your former comment isn't strictly true. On Trident and on the Union yes they agree.

The most left wing government in British history the Clement Atlee one gave us nuclear weapons, necessary austerity and indeed believed in the UK so was that government no different from the Tories?

As others have said and given good examples of other things that was different times and different answers.

The Greeks have come up, or are coming up, with different solutions to the deficit and austerity, as did Iceland (Iceland doing quite nicely now AND they jailed some bankers into the bargain :-).

Can you ever see Labour deviating from the solution currently being pursued by the right wing millionaires row?

 

[broonieboy]

I'll be voting SNP. Local labour liar/MP Graeme Morrice was happily snapped in posed photos with local Orange Lodgers in run up to Indy Ref......absolute trumpet


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[HenryLB]

He also created The NHS.Don't compare possibly the greatest ever PM with any of todays politicians Kenny, it just silly.

Atlee lived at the start of the Cold Cold war, his motives for Nukes were sounder than the ones used today.I'd take a punt his pov on that might be different today.He also oversaw independence for India did he not?

Good point about the nukes, but I think even many tories would be left of most in the Attlee govt on the welfare state and NHS nowadays.

 

[DarrenSQH]

Im voting SNP. I havent voted any other way since I turned 18.

 

[southfieldhibby]

, but I think even many tories would be left of most in the Attlee govt on the welfare state and NHS nowadays.

How so Henry?

 

[Smurf]

I look forward to hearing of him donating that to party funds.






Or more likely hearing that he's joined the Scottish Conservatives!

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As others have said and given good examples of other things that was different times and different answers.

The Greeks have come up, or are coming up, with different solutions to the deficit and austerity, as did Iceland (Iceland doing quite nicely now AND they jailed some bankers into the bargain :-).

Can you ever see Labour deviating from the solution currently being pursued by the right wing millionaires row?

Do you really think that the Greeks are coming up with different solutions? Their debt repayments are definitely unsustainable but if they are forced out of the Euro as is looking likely then economically they could find themselves in a much worse state of affairs.

 

[Jack]

Do you really think that the Greeks are coming up with different solutions? Their debt repayments are definitely unsustainable but if they are forced out of the Euro as is looking likely then economically they could find themselves in a much worse state of affairs.

What about Icelands recovery against all odds, apparently?

There's no ifs or buts there!

As to Greece we'll have to wait and see.

Anyway back to the original question. Would Labour try something different or carry on with the Tory policies that are targeting the weaker elements of society?

 

[HenryLB]

How so Henry?

There's a generally absolute acceptance of a larger and wider-ranging health service. There's also an acceptance that welfare should provide an element of social security rather than just a basic safety net.

In scale and scope both of these operations are several times larger than was envisaged by the post-war Labour party and there isn't a serious appetite to dismantle them. If for example a Tory govt genuinely tried to take welfare back to what Beveridge (who of course was a Liberal) envisaged there would be a revolution. I just think the goalposts have moved a very long way - thankfully!

 

[southfieldhibby]

There's a generally absolute acceptance of a larger and wider-ranging health service. There's also an acceptance that welfare should provide an element of social security rather than just a basic safety net.

In scale and scope both of these operations are several times larger than was envisaged by the post-war Labour party and there isn't a serious appetite to dismantle them. If for example a Tory govt genuinely tried to take welfare back to what Beveridge (who of course was a Liberal) envisaged there would be a revolution. I just think the goalposts have moved a very long way - thankfully!

Sure, but we're suffering for the success of what Beveridge suggested and Bevan implemented.No one would imagine the society we'd create and the complicity we'd all be involved in wrt benefit fraud, obesity and the general wasteful society we've all allowed to grow amongst us, but that's an entirely different argument!

I think there is general acceptance by folk that the entire benefit,social security and pension bloc needs a rejig, but only in tandem with tax loopholes being closed and companies paying full whack taxation.But to politicians it's the 3rd rail...touch it and you're dead.Politics and their own self interest take precedence.

 

[Jack]

There's a generally absolute acceptance of a larger and wider-ranging health service. There's also an acceptance that welfare should provide an element of social security rather than just a basic safety net.

In scale and scope both of these operations are several times larger than was envisaged by the post-war Labour party and there isn't a serious appetite to dismantle them. If for example a Tory govt genuinely tried to take welfare back to what Beveridge (who of course was a Liberal) envisaged there would be a revolution. I just think the goalposts have moved a very long way - thankfully!

What is this larger and wider-ranging health service you speak of?