FIFA.

[greencol]

No poppies to be worn by England & Scotland on 11th November.
Political symbol they say.
Fuck off FIFA, I say.

 

[paigntonhibby]

Should just wear them anyway and pay any fines imposed. F##kin scandalous

 

[Kenny]

So are scotland and england only going to select players they know want to wear poppies?

How does that work with numbering? do they make the shirts up on the day?

 

[southfieldhibby]

Why was there games lats weekend holding minutes silences for this? Bit early, no?

 

[paigntonhibby]

Why was there games lats weekend holding minutes silences for this? Bit early, no?

Apparently the minutes silence last weekend wisnar for remberance

 

[SWH]

The world has gone mad..As a ex servicemen & veteran I wear my poppy with pride and always will do .
The suits at Fifa can go and take a running fuck tae themselves.

Sorry for the rant :agrghh

 

[Chester Perry]

Where were all the complaints about no poppies on tops before they suddenly became a must wear fashion accessory.?

 

[SWH]

Sorry dude but i see no relevance to football and the wearing of poppies.

I respect your opinion but would kindly offer this article about our own club and the greatest sacrifice made by so many players of so many clubs.
you will note our own 1902 captain gave his life .Hope link works mate....We will remember them.

http://www.theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2014/08/hibernian-football-club-in-the-great-war/

 

[SWH]

http://www.theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2014/08/hibernian-football-club-in-the-great-war/

There you go.
I'm afraid I'm of the opinion of Chester on this one. No one gave a hoot about this until about 5 years ago when someone "decided" they should be on fitba shirts.

Poppies are a personal decision to wear IMO. I'm sure a fair few folk would be unhappy if their employer wanted everyone to wear one and you would be frowned upon if you said no.

Thanks for link. I agree it's a personal decision.For me it's about the remembrance of individual sacrifice .For Fifa to say no is taking away the right of individual expression of those who want to be involved on both sides of the border.However I think players , supporters & officials on both sides will not totally adhere to FIFA's ruling.
GGTTH.

 

[brianmc]

I think it's entirely up to each individual, whilst going about their own personal business, to choose whether or not to wear a poppy.
But see whilst you're at your work - it's different rules apply. The Scotland jersey is the uniform these guys wear at work and should be treated accordingly.
Show your respect(or not) in your own time. When you're working, get the gear on and do your job.

 

[Purple & Green]

Red poppy on a pink shirt? Fashion Crime. Fifa are doing us a favour.

 

[paigntonhibby]

In your personal day to day life it should be up to the individual whether tae wear one or no', as an ex serviceman I wear mine with pride, but as representatives of our country the players, IMO, if required, should wear one. Lest we forget

 

[Dub]

In your personal day to day life it should be up to the individual whether tae wear one or no', as an ex serviceman I wear mine with pride, but as representatives of our country the players, IMO, if required, should wear one. Lest we forget

Some people wear poppies, some people don't wear them for whatever reasons. I can visualise a situation where the FA and SFA decided to tell FIFA to do one and put poppies on the shirts and a player said that he didn't want to wear one. He would then be villified for something that is a matter of personal choice as has happened already. Players shouldn't be put under pressure to wear a poppy and they can do that in their own time if they wish.

 

[Purple & Green]

Some people wear poppies, some people don't wear them for whatever reasons. I can visualise a situation where the FA and SFA decided to tell FIFA to do one and put poppies on the shirts and a player said that he didn't want to wear one. He would then be villified for something that is a matter of personal choice as has happened already. Players shouldn't be put under pressure to wear a poppy and they can do that in their own time if they wish.

People gave their lives for the freedoms that allow us to choose to wear poppies, which I happily do. If we ignore those freedoms and attempt to enforce poppies then it really does stand for something much less meaningful. I'm sure FIFA won't stop us having a minutes silence, in which case, what are we really arguing about?

 

[1 Mcnamara]

We truly do live in a fcked up world . It has gone mad.
Surely a poppy is only a sign that we remember people have given the ultimate sacrifice,because their country and laws asked for it.
It's not about right and wrong, it's just a little respect once a year.
That's what a poppy means to me. It's not political or religious , it's a small sign of respect, and if anything reminds us all to stop causing wars.
Just my take on it.

 

[SWH]

In your personal day to day life it should be up to the individual whether tae wear one or no', as an ex serviceman I wear mine with pride, but as representatives of our country the players, IMO, if required, should wear one. Lest we forget

This

 

[Kenny]

Its all about choice - and when the choice becomes needing to choose to opt out rather than choosing to opt in then the meaning is lost.

I cant see how remembrance day can get back the respect it deserves IMO....bullying people into noticing and respecting certainly wont work.

 

[Dub]

People gave their lives for the freedoms that allow us to choose to wear poppies, which I happily do. If we ignore those freedoms and attempt to enforce poppies then it really does stand for something much less meaningful. I'm sure FIFA won't stop us having a minutes silence, in which case, what are we really arguing about?

This is the reason I normally avoid a poppy debate. Yes, people died, brave men and women one and all I'm sure but thousands of them were sent to their deaths needlessly because Haig thought it was a great idea just to keep rushing the enemy guns. Around 20 thousand killed by his tactics at the Somme alone and thousands more wounded and even when the casualties were mounting up he wouldn't agree he got it wrong. It is my belief that when he set the Poppy appeal up at the age of approx 60 he did so to try to salve his own conscience and ensure his 'place in heaven' when he died rather than for altruistic reasons and for that reason I don't wear one. I know I'm in a minority in that belief and many will find it a dreadful way to think, that's their choice.

PS. Blackadder goes forth final episode brilliantly satirised Haig when Blackadder went to see him and he [Haig] was standing at his battle board knocking over rows of toy soldiers.

 

[paigntonhibby]

This is the reason I normally avoid a poppy debate. Yes, people died, brave men and women one and all I'm sure but thousands of them were sent to their deaths needlessly because Haig thought it was a great idea just to keep rushing the enemy guns. Around 20 thousand killed by his tactics at the Somme alone and thousands more wounded and even when the casualties were mounting up he wouldn't agree he got it wrong. It is my belief that when he set the Poppy appeal up at the age of approx 60 he did so to try to salve his own conscience and ensure his 'place in heaven' when he died rather than for altruistic reasons and for that reason I don't wear one. I know I'm in a minority in that belief and many will find it a dreadful way to think, that's their choice.

PS. Blackadder goes forth final episode brilliantly satirised Haig when Blackadder went to see him and he [Haig] was standing at his battle board knocking over rows of toy soldiers.

you're quite right Dub, it was a disaster and i dont find it dreadful that your personal choice is no' tae wear one, personally i wear one to remember those who died, not commemorate those who sent them to their deaths. I do however feel quite strongly that those who are fortunate enough to represent our country,in whatever capacity, shouldnae disrespect the feelings of the majority of our citizens and should wear one, if asked to do so, on the 11th of november

 

[Davy]

The poppy is not glorifying war but remembering all on both sides who fell. FIFA are a disgrace....well we knew that anyway. Fans should take poppies with them and throw them on the pitch at half time...lets the sea of red be a reminder of lives lost

 

[Beagle]

FIFA's stance here is that it is perceived as a political statement and as such is banned under their rules. As the match is a tournament qualifier I assume (haven't looked yet) there are other countries playing similar qualifiers on the same day? Those other countries will have lost their countrymen in war too and will be subject to FIFA rules like everyone else. Has there been a big hoo-ha from other countries wishing to make a display in a similar fashion to those in the British Isles? If not, then the whole episode has been manufactured for political gain (poppy nazis anyone?) in my opinion and therefore backs up FIFA's stance in all this.

 

[Kenny]

FIFA's stance here is that it is perceived as a political statement and as such is banned under their rules. As the match is a tournament qualifier I assume (haven't looked yet) there are other countries playing similar qualifiers on the same day? Those other countries will have lost their countrymen in war too and will be subject to FIFA rules like everyone else. Has there been a big hoo-ha from other countries wishing to make a display in a similar fashion to those in the British Isles? If not, then the whole episode has been manufactured for political gain (poppy nazis anyone?) in my opinion and therefore backs up FIFA's stance in all this.

I don't think people will remember any less because a shirt isn't adorned with a poppy.

 

[Canon Hannan]

Thanks for link. I agree it's a personal decision.For me it's about the remembrance of individual sacrifice .For Fifa to say no is taking away the right of individual expression of those who want to be involved on both sides of the border.However I think players , supporters & officials on both sides will not totally adhere to FIFA's ruling.
GGTTH.

They can wear them on their suits before and after the game if they wish but shouldn't be forced to wear something that is now more a political symbol than a symbol for the fallen off WW1 & WW2.

 

[Beagle]

I don't think people will remember any less because a shirt isn't adorned with a poppy.

Exactly.

The poppy is yet another symbol that has been hijacked in the modern age by people who have their own agendas where one side brands you a national traitor should you choose not to wear it or the other side sneers at you for displaying what they see as a support of British imperialism.

FIFA are only too well aware of this being a form of politics. Why else are the MSM kicking up such a fuss about foreigners making this decision otherwise?

 

[Doc Shrink]

I’ve always worn a poppy at this time of year – in my view it shows respect to those that died in the world wars, in particular WW1. It doesn’t ‘glorify’ war, that’s why it is on 11th November, the day the war ended.
It’s a shame that (in Scottish football context) the Huns and Min-Huns seem to have hijacked the poppy, and indeed Remembrance Day as something more meaningful to them. It doesn’t stop me wearing my poppy but I have no beef with anyone who chooses not to for whatever reason they may have even if it seems daft to others. It’s a personal choice.
I have a bit of sympathy with the view that those representing our country (for instance) should wear a poppy though. It’s a bit like being at a formal dinner and standing for the National Anthem. Courtesy really, and not making an arse of oneself even if not a Royalist, then at least stand. You dinnae have to sing.

 

[DarrenSQH]

Im with fifa on this one.

Is it this weekend club teams will have them in england and James McLean can go back to being public enemy no 1?

 

[aggie]

Some people wear poppies, some people don't wear them for whatever reasons. I can visualise a situation where the FA and SFA decided to tell FIFA to do one and put poppies on the shirts and a player said that he didn't want to wear one. He would then be villified for something that is a matter of personal choice as has happened already. Players shouldn't be put under pressure to wear a poppy and they can do that in their own time if they wish.

This.

That's what a poppy means to me.

Operative word there being "me".

the feelings of the majority of our citizens

Quite a claim.

 

[SWH]

They can wear them on their suits before and after the game if they wish but shouldn't be forced to wear something that is now more a political symbol than a symbol for the fallen off WW1 & WW2.

A poppy to me is a symbol of remembrance and respect for the boys & girls who didn't come home. I don't understand how you perceive it as a political symbol mate I genuinely don't get that ?

 

[paigntonhibby]

This.



Operative word there being "me".



Quite a claim.

dispute it

 

[Jack]

I wear a poppy.

Far from being a political symbol I think it's the opposite. A symbol of the young lives wasted by politicians. I'd also like to think it might be a reminder to them should they need to make that decision again.

 

[aggie]

dispute it

Nae problem:

I dispute that the majority of UK citizens would feel - as you put it - "disrespected" if our national teams' players didn't wear poppies on their strips/armbands. In fact, my counter contention is that the majority of UK citizens don't give two sh!ts whether they do or not. That you may feel disrespected is another thing altogether.

Furthermore, to me the whole poppy racket is of a piece with folk putting French flag overlays on their Facebook profile pictures; and I've no problem with such a public display of sentiment - who would? However, how come no one gets all bent out of shape if people don't "French flag" their profile pics? Simple - because of course everyone knows that not doing so does not preclude the ability to feel sympathy/pay private respects (and I emphasise private)/remember the war dead.

But poppies seem to be a special case, where folk who work in the public eye representing the country they happened to be born in, at the sport they happen to play, have to have this stuff foisted upon them, and effectively be painted into a "damned if you don't" corner as a result, by people who can't seem to separate public remembrance from private display.

Clear enough?

 

[paigntonhibby]

Nae problem:

I dispute that the majority of UK citizens would feel - as you put it - "disrespected" if our national teams' players didn't wear poppies on their strips/armbands. In fact, my counter contention is that the majority of UK citizens don't give two sh!ts whether they do or not. That you may feel disrespected is another thing altogether.

Furthermore, to me the whole poppy racket is of a piece with folk putting French flag overlays on their Facebook profile pictures; and I've no problem with such a public display of sentiment - who would? However, how come no one gets all bent out of shape if people don't "French flag" their profile pics? Simple - because of course everyone knows that not doing so does not preclude the ability to feel sympathy/pay private respects (and I emphasise private)/remember the war dead.

But poppies seem to be a special case, where folk who work in the public eye representing the country they happened to be born in, at the sport they happen to play, have to have this stuff foisted upon them, and effectively be painted into a "damned if you don't" corner as a result, by people who can't seem to separate public remembrance from private display.

Clear enough?

i didnae put would feel disrespected, i said disrespect the feelings, 2 completely different things. i personally widnae feel disrespected if poppies weren't worn on kits but i would think it disrespectful if the SFA decided poppies would be worn and individual players refused. Opinions eh

 

[aggie]

i didnae put would feel disrespected, i said disrespect the feelings, 2 completely different things. i personally widnae feel disrespected if poppies weren't worn on kits but i would think it disrespectful if the SFA decided poppies would be worn and individual players refused. Opinions eh

Eh? Genuinely mystified - what else is there to disrespect, essentially, other than feelings? What you said was: "shouldnae disrespect the feelings of the majority of our citizens and should wear one". Are you saying that if their feelings were disrespected, they wouldn't feel disrespected? I'm baffled, like.

Anyway, I've responded to you asking me to dispute your claim. How about you support what your claim essentially is: that the majority of the population would "feel that their feelings had been disrespected" if the national football teams didn't wear poppies?

 

[SWH]

Eh? Genuinely mystified - what else is there to disrespect, essentially, other than feelings? What you said was: "shouldnae disrespect the feelings of the majority of our citizens and should wear one". Are you saying that if their feelings were disrespected, they wouldn't feel disrespected? I'm baffled, like.

Anyway, I've responded to you asking me to dispute your claim. How about you support what your claim essentially is: that the majority of the population would "feel that their feelings had been disrespected" if the national football teams didn't wear poppies?

In 2015 approx 40 million poppies where sold in the uk. Now that doesn't suggest everyone would feel disrespected if our fitba team don't wear a poppy , but it might cause a ripple or two ?

 

[paigntonhibby]

Eh? Genuinely mystified - what else is there to disrespect, essentially, other than feelings? What you said was: "shouldnae disrespect the feelings of the majority of our citizens and should wear one". Are you saying that if their feelings were disrespected, they wouldn't feel disrespected? I'm baffled, like.

Anyway, I've responded to you asking me to dispute your claim. How about you support what your claim essentially is: that the majority of the population would "feel that their feelings had been disrespected" if the national football teams didn't wear poppies?

shouldnae disrespect bthe feelings o' the majority o' the population of our country if asked to wear one. The majority of our population, IMO,support t6he idea of the poppy and while very few , if any, would feel personally disrespected if a player ,if asked to do so, refused to wear a poppy, many would see it as a show of disrespect. Anyway,i'm entitled to my opinion as you are to yours so i'll wear my poppy with pride and you obviously wont. Life goes on

 

[aggie]

In 2015 approx 40 million poppies where sold in the uk. Now that doesn't suggest everyone would feel disrespected if our fitba team don't wear a poppy , but it might cause a ripple or two ?

shouldnae disrespect bthe feelings o' the majority o' the population of our country if asked to wear one. The majority of our population, IMO,support t6he idea of the poppy and while very few , if any, would feel personally disrespected if a player ,if asked to do so, refused to wear a poppy, many would see it as a show of disrespect. Anyway,i'm entitled to my opinion as you are to yours so i'll wear my poppy with pride and you obviously wont. Life goes on

Just to be clear, I've nothing against poppies. I do, however, take issue with people being compelled to wear them - whether explicitly, or in this case implicitly by being put in a situation in the public eye which comes with an unavoidable and seemingly automatic presumption from some people that not wearing one implies disrespect - ie youse, and others who feel strongly about poppies. Feeling strongly about them is fine, but doesn't give that minority of those who'd feel genuinely aggrieved the right to dictate to people they've never even met.

After all, in the British legion's own words: "Wearing a poppy is a personal choice and reflects individual and personal memories."

I fail to see how that means sports teams should wear them, or otherwise run the risk of disrespecting other folk, memories, or whatever.

 

[GdanskHibee]

I don't think people will remember any less because a shirt isn't adorned with a poppy.

Yeh exactly- folk remember with or without a poppy in their lapel. Personally, I'd love to see them wearing it but at the same time I'm not going to get my knackers in a twist about it, especially when there are so many ways to sidestep the whole issue when it comes to a football match- poppy displays, banners, cards etc etc.

And I don't think FIFA are discriminating or misunderstanding either. They are protecting themselves IMO from setting a precedent which could see other countries demanding to remember their war dead. Serbia anyone? Ukraine? The whole of Africa???

Im with fifa on this one.

Is it this weekend club teams will have them in england and James McLean can go back to being public enemy no 1?

A wee scumbag of the highest order but just cos he loves the attention that much, hopefully not. He must rank right up there with Barry "The Belt" Ferguson when it comes to the most bigoted professional footballers to have disgraced a football pitch.

:pf:

 

[Nex]

Wasn't there "outrage" back in 2011 when the same happened? In the end alternatives were proposed and used.

Minutes silence, laying wreaths before the game, wearing poppies before and after the games and most notable players wearing a black armband with a poppy on it.

Surely all of those options are still available yet apparently to some you can only "respectfully" remember UK military dead if you have a wee flower stitched directly on your top.

I will add that I am not a poppy wearer however so maybe that's why I feel any of the above is enough.

 

[SWH]

Just to be clear, I've nothing against poppies. I do, however, take issue with people being compelled to wear them - whether explicitly, or in this case implicitly by being put in a situation in the public eye which comes with an unavoidable and seemingly automatic presumption from some people that not wearing one implies disrespect - ie youse, and others who feel strongly about poppies. Feeling strongly about them is fine, but doesn't give that minority of those who'd feel genuinely aggrieved the right to dictate to people they've never even met.

After all, in the British legion's own words: "Wearing a poppy is a personal choice and reflects individual and personal memories."

I fail to see how that means sports teams should wear them, or otherwise run the risk of disrespecting other folk, memories, or whatever.

Just to be clear , Ive nothing against people who don't wear a poppy and have never considered it disrespectful or insulting that they dont. I find it disappointing that some don't that I'm happy to accept as a label.
I am concerned as shrink touched on earlier above that because the Huns and mini huns seemed to have hijacked Remembrance day football wise ,that puts others against it for what are in my opinion the wrong reasons.
It would seem both the English and Scottish FA are going to defy FIFA on this and wear armbands a decision I welcome 100%.However if any individual player doesn't want to wear a poppy then that is his right not to do so , not supported by me for sure but not vilified either.

 

[paigntonhibby]

Wasn't there "outrage" back in 2011 when the same happened? In the end alternatives were proposed and used.

Minutes silence, laying wreaths before the game, wearing poppies before and after the games and most notable players wearing a black armband with a poppy on it.

Surely all of those options are still available yet apparently to some you can only "respectfully" remember UK military dead if you have a wee flower stitched directly on your top.

I will add that I am not a poppy wearer however so maybe that's why I feel any of the above is enough.

fortunately nae outrage on here only differences of opinion which is only tae be expected on a forum like this. Nothing wrong wi' any o' the above alternatives by the way, you could have the players just wearing a black armband as long as rememberance day is recognised. tae be fair i dont think anybody has said the poppy has tae be stitched on the top, and its no' just U.K. war dead that are remembered. i dont have anything against antbody that chooses no' tae wear a poppy, it is, and always should be a per.sonal choice. I just feel,and this is my own personal opinion, that in a country that by and large observes rememberance sunday people chosen tae represent that country on that day should , if asked to do so,reflect that. Nae offence, intended or otherwise, tae anybody that has a different opinion