Do you donate

Forums New posts
Nefu

Nefu

Private Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2007
First off I'm not an insensitive barsteward to the many homeless people I see in Edinburgh,I believe certain circumstances ,a twist of fate a few wrong turns could see many off us in similar circumstances
My question is just to gauge how others see the situation is it a problem is it a big problem is it an organised problem.

I do sometimes give ,donate the odd pound buy a cup of tea etc ,but driving around Edinburgh for the last month or so its defo on the increase ,all these wummin that look the same Tescos at Newington ,Top of the Walk , RBS at York Place outside the Caledonian Hotel
( she was moved on pronto ) guys down at The Western General temporary traffic lights jumping in and out of all the cars stopped at the lights selling you those tree freshener things , guys no got any change neither has the seller , guy behind him just wants to get on,
lights change one cars moved because of this prick selling air freshner ,then theres a big barney, seller does a moody chaos is left ,2 mins from Fettes by the way do you need a licence for that ?


I saw a guy sitting at the top of the steps behind the art gallery at the top of The Mound where the piper sometimes play ,just sitting there waiting on the punters coming up the steps they were cattled and gave him a sheckle or 2 while they got their breath back ,which I did chuckle at clever boy I thought,then a piper started playing and he buggered off the reason for my post is I was watching Ross Kemp for 5 mins on gangs in Bulgaria I think it was, gypsies and the art of pickpocketing ,how they are in the UK how its organised how millions are made the corruption goes all the way to the top prostitution etc etc ,and how they bring disabled beggars over to earn a living for their bosses .

In the last week I've walked past McDonalds at the West End daily and this is what I've walked past

Tuesday Man with dog

Wed Man

Thursday Women

Friday Man in bare feet

Monday guy with no legs

I'm expecting to walk past a guy with one leg and a dug wi no tail sometime this week
I remember after a good day at the bookies giving a couple of quid to a guy outside the Theatre Royal carrying on up the town for an hour or so only to go into the same pub later on ,to see the same guy drinking brandy & coke
I suppose if you`ve gave him the cash he can do what he wants with it but it makes you think twice ,
which inevitably hinders the genuine cases .



Who's to blame is there a point where begging has to stop ,should they be entitled to beg ,everybody has things on their minds problems left right and centre, begging on the streets shows me that many want to show the misfortune the find themselves in with an empty coffee cup in hand , where as and organised place to resolve their problems would be better IMHO, but if begging`s your job it doesn't leave you a lot of space to maneuver .

Going to a jobcentre and being asked what your last job was ,you can hardly put down unemployed beggar ,I know its a serious problem and I hope you will excuse my attempt a humour ,but as things get harder and harder will things decline even more with the influx of yet more people who can come to Britain.

Your thoughts please
 
Nefu said:
First off I'm not an insensitive barsteward to the many homeless people I see in Edinburgh,I believe certain circumstances ,a twist of fate a few wrong turns could see many off us in similar circumstances
My question is just to gauge how others see the situation is it a problem is it a big problem is it an organised problem.

I do sometimes give ,donate the odd pound buy a cup of tea etc ,but driving around Edinburgh for the last month or so its defo on the increase ,all these wummin that look the same Tescos at Newington ,Top of the Walk , RBS at York Place outside the Caledonian Hotel
( she was moved on pronto ) guys down at The Western General temporary traffic lights jumping in and out of all the cars stopped at the lights selling you those tree freshener things , guys no got any change neither has the seller , guy behind him just wants to get on,
lights change one cars moved because of this prick selling air freshner ,then theres a big barney, seller does a moody chaos is left ,2 mins from Fettes by the way do you need a licence for that ?


I saw a guy sitting at the top of the steps behind the art gallery at the top of The Mound where the piper sometimes play ,just sitting there waiting on the punters coming up the steps they were cattled and gave him a sheckle or 2 while they got their breath back ,which I did chuckle at clever boy I thought,then a piper started playing and he buggered off the reason for my post is I was watching Ross Kemp for 5 mins on gangs in Bulgaria I think it was, gypsies and the art of pickpocketing ,how they are in the UK how its organised how millions are made the corruption goes all the way to the top prostitution etc etc ,and how they bring disabled beggars over to earn a living for their bosses .

In the last week I've walked past McDonalds at the West End daily and this is what I've walked past

Tuesday Man with dog

Wed Man

Thursday Women

Friday Man in bare feet

Monday guy with no legs

I'm expecting to walk past a guy with one leg and a dug wi no tail sometime this week
I remember after a good day at the bookies giving a couple of quid to a guy outside the Theatre Royal carrying on up the town for an hour or so only to go into the same pub later on ,to see the same guy drinking brandy & coke
I suppose if you`ve gave him the cash he can do what he wants with it but it makes you think twice ,
which inevitably hinders the genuine cases .



Who's to blame is there a point where begging has to stop ,should they be entitled to beg ,everybody has things on their minds problems left right and centre, begging on the streets shows me that many want to show the misfortune the find themselves in with an empty coffee cup in hand , where as and organised place to resolve their problems would be better IMHO, but if begging`s your job it doesn't leave you a lot of space to maneuver .

Going to a jobcentre and being asked what your last job was ,you can hardly put down unemployed beggar ,I know its a serious problem and I hope you will excuse my attempt a humour ,but as things get harder and harder will things decline even more with the influx of yet more people who can come to Britain.

Your thoughts please
Click to expand...

Can't comment on the Edinburgh situation. In Aberdeen, however, you'll see a few "homeless" people begging at weekends who have travelled from Peterhead (30 miles) to do so. You can hear them chatting to each other on their mobile phones and discussing which is the best "pitch" on the day etc. Last I heard it was 10 for a return ticket on the bus - go figure! So no, I have basically stopped giving to these people. Call it tarring everyone with the same brush but that's the way I am nowadays - cynical. I never pass someone collecting for a genuine registered charity however.
 
I donate to them quite a bit but I always swerve the wifies with the Romanian / Bulgarian headscarves as I read something once that has them pegged as a professional gang. I'm sure I'm getting swizzed sometimes but fuck it.
 
Theres a gang of professional beggars operating in the Gorgie area. Im certain some of the money makes its way to Eastern/Central Europe.
 
When I work a right early shift I've seen guys in a white van drop off these Eastern European women around the afore mentioned spots. Give these girls money and you are literally funding slavery.
 
Unless I am being incredibly naive, Do you really need to beg for money to live in 21st Century Scotland? I always assume that somewhere the state or a Charity can give you at least a bit of warmth and soup? So therefore the Gadgies on the street do not want to to use this resource either because they have a habit or they are chancers. Therefore, against my christian judgement, I give them fuck all, as I feel I am just perpetuating things. Feel like a **** at times, but I do give to Charity every month through gift aid.
 
Most, not all beggars are not homeless, I personally would have walked past most in the past and thought they where mostly homeless until I moved around Edinburgh and met people who begged to make money for their habits, alkis and junkies do populate the town, personally wouldn't give any of the beggers money as you don't know who is truly homeless or not.

As for the Romanian gang, often see them raking the buckets in leith, begging in Leith, they also get their kids to do their dirty work, have sat and watched them from my flat.

You also get your genuine homeless folk, Arthur (rasta) in leith was genuinely homeless but rarely accepted much from anybody.
 
A good option for donations to the homeless is the Franciscan mission at the corner of Bristo square. If I can I prefer to give clothes there rather than a charity
Shop as it goes straight on someone's back rather than sold for buttons -

Also the site of the original St Patricks so a vague hibs connection. My mate used to help out in the soup kitchen there which is an option for anyone who really wants to get stuck in
 
I used to buy a copy of the Big Issue from a guy outside the Tesco Express up by Holy Corner. Went up yin day for my lunch, and on the way in notice the guy isnae there, and some woman is in his place. On coming out she ask's if I want a copy, I decline and go to walk on, and she says to me "you can afford fags though eh"!!!!!! That had been a bloke I would have lamped the @@$@ tbh. I now give to no-one.
 
Chester Perry said:
Theres a gang of professional beggars operating in the Gorgie area. Im certain some of the money makes its way to Eastern/Central Europe.
Click to expand...
There's a whole industry of professional beggars operating by phone and post getting paid by UNICEF, Great Ormond Street Hospital, etc for collecting money. Worthwhile causes but no chance of me giving money that disappears in wages and admin.
 
The__Proclaimer said:
When I work a right early shift I've seen guys in a white van drop off these Eastern European women around the afore mentioned spots. Give these girls money and you are literally funding slavery.
Click to expand...

I agree and I don't give money to these girls, but I often think what they go back to if they don't hit their 'target'.I'm sure their slave bosses treat them abysmally either way and I sometimes get them a coffee or tea from greedy guts, but you can see the pain and fear in their eyes.An absolutely horrific life they're forced into.

bigmanandy said:
You also get your genuine homeless folk, Arthur (rasta) in leith was genuinely homeless but rarely accepted much from anybody.
Click to expand...

Arthur has his own reasons for being homeless, it's not down to lack of money or a caring family.I used to speak to him when I worked in John Lewis and he slept under the warm air vents.Difficult to get to know, but his conversation once going is terrific.A gent of a man.

There are a few regular beggars on Junction Street, mostly alcoholics or gas junkies and annoying as fuck.They get told to bolt.
 
Is banned said:
I used to buy a copy of the Big Issue from a guy outside the Tesco Express up by Holy Corner. Went up yin day for my lunch, and on the way in notice the guy isnae there, and some woman is in his place. On coming out she ask's if I want a copy, I decline and go to walk on, and she says to me "you can afford fags though eh"!!!!!! That had been a bloke I would have lamped the @@$@ tbh. I now give to no-one.
Click to expand...
Just tell her you can afford fags as you work for them. The Big Issue is another company that has moved too far from its original purpose.
 
southfieldhibby said:
I agree and I don't give money to these girls, but I often think what they go back to if they don't hit their 'target'.I'm sure their slave bosses treat them abysmally either way and I sometimes get them a coffee or tea from greedy guts, but you can see the pain and fear in their eyes.An absolutely horrific life they're forced into.



Arthur has his own reasons for being homeless, it's not down to lack of money or a caring family.I used to speak to him when I worked in John Lewis and he slept under the warm air vents.Difficult to get to know, but his conversation once going is terrific.A gent of a man.

There are a few regular beggars on Junction Street, mostly alcoholics or gas junkies and annoying as $#@!.They get told to bolt.
Click to expand...

Yup I know a few people that tried to help him out at Christmas, food, clothes etc, which he accepted, eventually. He did look more unwell in the beginning of the year and got taken into hospital and is now as far as I'm aware being cared for, which is probably for the best.

The regulars on Junction Street are a menace, gas cans up their sleeves (not even sligh or that), had a go at one a while back for 'buzzing' in front of my bairn while at the bus stop, disgusting.
 
egb_hibs said:
A good option for donations to the homeless is the Franciscan mission at the corner of Bristo square. If I can I prefer to give clothes there rather than a charity
Shop as it goes straight on someone's back rather than sold for buttons -

Also the site of the original St Patricks so a vague hibs connection. My mate used to help out in the soup kitchen there which is an option for anyone who really wants to get stuck in
Click to expand...

On a related theme, there are often beggars outside the cathedral doors before and after Mass at the cathedral in Nottingham. It feels a bit unfair to be put through this gamut of emotions in such circumstances for obvious reason. This particular church however, supports greatly a local homeless centre/shelter in the city through volunteering and money collected in the congregation etc. and the priest's advice on this is to direct beggars towards this.

- - - Updated - - -

A bit 'wot I rote about it a while back:

http://stuartfrew.wordpress.com/2008/05/19/beggar-man/

Beggar Man

Well, another tale that emanates from a church night once more. It seems to be becoming something of a theme. I was rather taken by a message in the weekly Sunday Message bulletin in Mass last evening at Saint Barnabas Cathedral in Nottingham. It read as follows:
We have got used to people begging around the Cathedral. How do we deal with them?
This is our advice. It is far too easy to give money. The Clergy never give money. We or the sisters, will direct people to Emmanuel House, (local shelter supported by the Cathedral) arrange transport, give food or drink, advise about shelter, light a candle or pray for them, or just listen to their problems. Giving money may subsidise a serious addiction and encourages them to return to the Church to pester others.

A look at the Gospels will confirm that Jesus gave time, energy, advice, food, healing and much more: but he never gave money!

Beggar.jpg

I have to say this is another issue Ive wrestled with for a long time, not just in the context of people begging outside the Cathedral but all over the city. Currently, to my eyes, Nottingham seems almost overrun by people begging with individuals stationed at practically every cashpoint, outside the major stores and just generally roaming the streets. The problem appears of almost epidemic proportions these days and many complain about the situation. At certain periods it seems almost impossible to walk any distance in the city without being accosted, often several times.
I do feel for these people yes even those with their various addictions, for what are we if we cant show some compassion with those in such a miserable and lost state? At the same time I know that some feel intimidated by their presence and occasionally aggressive attitude. More worrying are the organised groups of beggars I have seen operating, on some occasions at the Cathedral but more often elsewhere in the city. Perhaps not an organised racket as such but certainly there seems more than an air of cynicism about them.

23n_Begging,0.jpg
​

To return to Saint Barnabas for a moment, every single week there are people begging at both entrances of the building, before and after Mass. It was always a slight trial for me personally and judging by the Cathedrals message, has been for others too. I dont want to feel that Im some hypocritical and uncaring individual that who, once setting foot outside of Mass, would ignore



those who appear to be in dire need.
beggar.gif
There lies the dilemma, one understands that the people begging are in some ways playing on ones conscience but at the same time ones feel the need to help in some way. It is very hard dealing with a pleading face immediately after the happy and refreshing time we have hopefully had inside the church. Dare I say it can almost spoil the moment and experience of something that is very personal.
I am encouraged by the guidance offered in the Sunday Message. Whats more I believe its really good advice for us all generally, not just those of faith. Thats why I share it here. Id be really interested to hear others attitudes to this problem?
 
There of course are some genuine homeless. However the reasons they are homeless vary. Many have all had tenancies and not paid bills. Most have been in hostels/b&bs, but either the rules did no suit them or they never paid their service charge. A lot have mental difficulties. Most have alcohol/drug issues.

There are places throughout Edinburgh they can get free/cheap food. Clothes can also be accessed, and you wouldn't believe how fussy some become at what to wear.

A lot of genuine disabled also receive benefits accordingly, DLA or the newer benefit, but most or all will receive some kind of benefits, many people from Europe also receive benefits. Some Eastern Europeans are not entitled to benefits but as has been pointed out are usually part of a larger gang voluntarily or co-erced into coming to UK to beg. Think about this for a minute...where do they get the air fare to travel?

There are numerous charities and goverment agencies working with homeless. There have been a lot of people losing their jobs and where accommodation was a part payment of the job they often find themselves between a rock and a hard place, but few of these people are out begging and usually go through hostels until they find employment or accommodation.

Bottom line is if you feel you want to give money then do not question what they will spend the money on, you have given it and thats the end of your entitlement to say what it should be spent on. Otherwise give to a charity as EGB has stated. And even then decide which one is best, ie if you want the money to provide a meal for one day, o if you understand a lot of what you give will be used up on paying staff wages/paying for overheads.

The situation is complex but the answers perhaps lie in lobbying councils/goverment to build more houses. However homelessness will never be totally eradicated as some people choose not to live in a flat or do not have the mental capacity to run one.
 
I never give. It's either funding slavery, organised crime or a habit - even if you buy food/tea it's money they they don't have to spend on these things.

A great story I overheard on a bus was between 2 well off ex Edinburgh Uni student wifies returning for the Festival. One never gave the other did until one the day she spotted the jakie beggar was drinking better, more expensive, wine than she had just bought for herself.

- - - Updated - - -

That was when she was at Uni.
 
Westside Green said:
There's a whole industry of professional beggars operating by phone and post getting paid by UNICEF, Great Ormond Street Hospital, etc for collecting money. Worthwhile causes but no chance of me giving money that disappears in wages and admin.
Click to expand...

Had a bit of a delve into the world of charities ,hey theres some healthy Wonga to be earned if your the top jolly
I looked at 8 charities 4 heid bummers over 120k 1 was over 150K the lowest I found was 60K .
Anyway thanks for the info ,one last thing has Edinburgh always had beggars ,did the 50s 60s and 70s have just as many .?



GGTTH
 
I do. Just seems right. Like EeeGee says, you'll be getting done some of the time. But, you'll be giving something that don't take much for you but translates to something more valuable to someone else. I usually have a brief spraff too, some really appreciate that, some are too gone to care. It if I'm in a smoking period, I'll pass them some fags and a light too.
 
Nefu said:
Had a bit of a delve into the world of charities ,hey theres some healthy Wonga to be earned if your the top jolly
I looked at 8 charities 4 heid bummers over 120k 1 was over 150K the lowest I found was 60K .
Anyway thanks for the info ,one last thing has Edinburgh always had beggars ,did the 50s 60s and 70s have just as many .?



GGTTH
Click to expand...
Not as many beggars in years gone by but I can remember seeing a few in the 70's and 80's.
 
The old air freshener jay walking sales at traffic lights can be seen regularly these days at the crossroads between Easter Road and London Road. Whether the folks involved are Romanian or not I can't be sure but they could well be. Usually women, they waiting till the lights go red in any one direction then walk up and down the cars on the white lines between the respective sides of the road. They often appear to forget that folk drive on the LHS here given the number of times they nearly lose an elbow on a passing wing mirror of a car on the other side. They are increasingly forward in their sales pitch.

It is the first time I have seen this happening here. Seen it in America, Portugal and other places but never in the UK. The police won't have the resources to deal with it no matter how dangerous a practice it is.

Re the suspected Big Issue racket...I recall the Scotsman/EEN journos running a piece exposing the guy who deposits the women in and around Edinburgh after a tip off from local Big Issue sellers who were being priced out of the market. They alleged that the gang could make enough money to buy up most of the Big Issues for selling, leaving none for the small turnover genuinely homeless folks it was intended for. :dunno: The women are most certainly being exploited. One of them - not going to say which "pitch" she gets dropped at just in case - has been brave enough to ask people to get her soap powder or bread or coffee instead of buying her Big Issue. She hides the staple supplies in a manner that suggests she is keeping it from whoever her task master is.
 
On the back of a "homeless" lad launching a 12" margarita at my head after I bought 2 pizzas at a takeaway in forest Rd once, I've never given a beggar money since.
Also, a boy I know did jail time for smacking a beggar who spat in his face. So on the back of these 2 experiences I'm not inclined to go near them.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2
 
I mentioned in a thread a few weeks ago, when I was in Salzburg, just how much that beautiful city has been invaded by East European beggars in the space of a year since I was last there. The locals tell me they're brought in by the busload daily by gangmasters and it's getting worse. The whole city centre is getting overrun by them
 
Beagle said:
I mentioned in a thread a few weeks ago, when I was in Salzburg, just how much that beautiful city has been invaded by East European beggars in the space of a year since I was last there. The locals tell me they're brought in by the busload daily by gangmasters and it's getting worse. The whole city centre is getting overrun by them
Click to expand...

I was in Prague a few years back and witnessed a 'shift change' with a new beggar arriving and swapping places with one huddled in a doorway. The outgoing beggar handed over various 'tools of the trade' including notably his canine begging companion.

I don't donate.
 
I was in Auld Reekie at theweekend and was taken aback at the number of beggars. More than I have seen elsewhere.

i do not give them anything as my friend works with the homeless and tells me how much assistance they get and how much they make on the scrounge.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
  • Menu
  • Home
  • Hibs Chat
  • New Posts
  • Just Back
  • Chatroom