David Cameron

[Stirlinghibee]

David Cameron: Cutting the cost of politics - Yahoo! News UK

Hmm. Easy to talk about "I want to make clear: under a Conservative government, far from politicians being exempt from the age of austerity, they must show leadership." When your are a millionaire, this "age of Austerity" must be hard , Dave? Cutting back on the Champer's are we?:chers:

And as for reducing the number of MP's at Westminster from 650 to 585, well, I know a very easy solution for you to do this!

Apart from that, a clever speech by Cameron. He knows the mood is anti-politician , so he is positioning himself as the great reformer. The ****s slimeyer than Blair..

 

[wee 162]

David Cameron: Cutting the cost of politics - Yahoo! News UK

Hmm. Easy to talk about "I want to make clear: under a Conservative government, far from politicians being exempt from the age of austerity, they must show leadership." When your are a millionaire, this "age of Austerity" must be hard , Dave? Cutting back on the Champer's are we?:chers:

And as for reducing the number of MP's at Westminster from 650 to 585, well, I know a very easy solution for you to do this!

Apart from that, a clever speech by Cameron. He knows the mood is anti-politician , so he is positioning himself as the great reformer. The ****s slimeyer than Blair..

In a general election, those whose main priority is Scottish independence would be well advised to vote tory because that would see a huge increase in the support level for independence....

 

[Stirlinghibee]

In a general election, those whose main priority is Scottish independence would be well advised to vote tory because that would see a huge increase in the support level for independence....

You go too far!



If the boy David really believes all the shite about the Scots "costing" England so much, then maybe part of his great path back to the workhouse is English Independence, so he doesnt have to "fund" the Barratt formula?

 

[SoarAlba]

In a general election, those whose main priority is Scottish independence would be well advised to vote tory because that would see a huge increase in the support level for independence....

I see the psychology at play in your thinking, but I feel those of us who desire the independence of oor country should just stick to voting SNP! I dread te think what the tories will get upto if they get in! They will cut the powers at Holyrood for starters. If we thought the Labour party was sneaky, MY GOD, we've no seen nothing yet!

I fear for the stability of oor country under another conservative regime and I fear for the fragile peace in the North Of Ireland! We have achieved a level of national belief in Scotland I have never known in my 32 years, more and more of us are falling away from that Westminster lie that we are incapable as a people of running oor own affairs, which in its very essence undermines ever Scots sense of self worth at a subconscious level!

I genuinely fear a conservative government in the way the French fear another extreme right wing German ruling party! The things they will do by slight of hand and with a slap will shudder oor new found sense of Scotland to its core! They will do everything they can to destroy the dream of independence!

 

[Smurf]

You go too far!



If the boy David really believes all the shite about the Scots "costing" England so much, then maybe part of his great path back to the workhouse is English Independence, so he doesnt have to "fund" the Barratt formula?

The Barnett Formula is most certainly under threat. And that must make Salmond's bedsheets soiled in the morning...

I think we (UK) are in for a shock once these nice new Tory types are returned to office. First thing i think we'll see is the Tory One Nation types booted into touch. So thanks Ken Clarke etc but GTF we're planning some radical cuts that will hit hard those at the bottom end of society.

Yes there will be cuts regardless to whoever wins next year but anyone who thinks it then makes no difference to whoever wins is in for a shock....

My household has experienced a low income these past 4 years and thank the lord for Childrens Tax Credit and Working Family Tax Credit. Tories will scrap them as they believe they somehow make folk dependant on the state...

I'm pissed off with Gordon Brown. He has to go. He's going to lead Labour to a defeat of such epic proportions that The Tories will think they've been given a mandate to really turn the screw.

Labour MP's are gutless feckers for not ditching this entirely unelected leader.

I read this last week from Jackie Ashkey and she sums it up pretty well.

Let me take you by the hand and lead you to a very different Britain, one that's perhaps not more than half a year away. It's a country convulsed over its future in the European Union, one in which welfare is being slashed and new prisons are the only public investment still growing. Bodies set up to make life fairer and safer are disappearing in a "bonfire of the quangos".

The BBC is being dismantled and a Fox News-style Murdoch broadcasting agenda is ripping ahead. A rightwing Conservative parliamentary party is in power and sees little chance of opposition for a decade. Labour is a shattered shell of a party nobody cares about who becomes its leader and the future of opposition politics seems to lie with the Lib Dems.

Much of this will be, at least for a while, very popular. Not everything will change. The unpopular Afghan war will grind bloodily on, and taxes will have to rise. Unemployment will stay high. The recovery will be patchy and uneven.

But the country will be seen to have taken a strong and decisive move to the right. David Cameron's period of soft-Blairite reassurance will be a half-forgotten footnote. Look at the most powerful thinking among today's Tories on the alleged iniquity of the EU, or the need to slash the size of the state. An important article by the former BBC staffer Dennis Sewell in the Spectator calls for a slaughter of "sinister" quangos stuffed with Labour supporters, members and fellow travellers to prevent "a guerrilla insurgency" against the new Tory rule. Welcome to the new world.

After the failures and disappointments of recent years, many people will be pleased. Democracy requires, from time to time, a major clearout and a fresh start. What is baffling is that the Labour government itself appears to be quietly reconciled to a change that may destroy the party as a major player for 10 or 20 years perhaps forever.

At cabinet last week, held away from Westminster at the new Olympic park, there was general enthusiasm for the building works there and the progress being made, combined with rueful reflections that the Tories will reap the glory from the London Olympics in 2012. But when asked whether there was any discussion of a new beginning or an autumn offensive, one cabinet minister just shrugged and said "nothing".

Defeatism is working like a corroding acid. We have got used to Gordon Brown's caution about defending his patch. The Libyan fiasco was just another example. He seems bloodied and wearied. Will there be a coup against him after the party conference? Will he finally decide to step aside? I hear the usual rumours but frankly, I counsel scepticism. It would take Alistair Darling, Jack Straw, David Miliband and Peter Mandelson to act decisively together to make Brown go; so far they have shown no sign of being ready.

No, the likelier outcome is nothing much. A semi-stunned amble to the slaughterhouse. Not everyone is completely shell-shocked. Jon Cruddas will tell the Compass pressure group tomorrow that the party seems paralysed, afraid and "meekly accepting defeat, unable to show what we believe in".

If so, things are worse for Labour now than they were for John Major's Conservatives before 1997. It should not be this way. Cameron, talented though he is, does not measure up to Blair in his heyday. The Tories in the 1990s were ideologically divided, which Labour is not. Yet right up to the end ministers such as Ken Clarke and Michael Heseltine were out there punching hard, and even landing some blows.

Where has the current government gone? Let's not talk about Brown. Let's talk about the rest of them David and Ed Miliband, Ed Balls, Jack Straw, Alan Johnson, Andy Burnham, Douglas Alexander, Ben Bradshaw, Yvette Cooper? Some ministers, I know, have already turned their thoughts to life outside parliament. They may find it harder and colder than they think, with quangos culled and companies finding it rather less useful to have a former Labour minister on the board. But what of those who hope to hold their seats?

It is as if ministers have gone on a collective go-slow. They will come out and talk about their departmental responsibilities or defend themselves over particular issues. They will turn up to conference and do the minimum, going through the motions.

But where's the fire? The enthusiasm for the big picture? The aggression? How many of them are fighting to get onto the Today programme or Newsnight to make the case for Labour's record, and to attack the increasingly rightwing Conservative agenda? Muttering "it's all Gordon's fault" and going on mic-strike may feel self-righteous, but the effect will be to drive Labour's vote down to somewhere so appalling that there may be no coming back.

So the younger Labour ministers and MPs, if nobody else, should start to focus on their likely future. It may mean a decade, or more, in the wilderness, with only a fragment of a local party to sustain them; with no real media interest and without the money to run research groups, campaigns or conferences. They won't be invited much on to the international circuit. They will find extra-parliamentary jobs with commissions, trusts and authorities very thin on the ground. At a purely personal level, it will be very grim.


Even now, there is an alternative. Labour politicians do have a story to tell. It's the story of underfunded public services being built up again, of health workers being paid decently, of a big expansion in further education, public investment in transport and of success in containing terrorism. It's about the emergence of a more tolerant country. It's about relative peace in Northern Ireland and democracy in Scotland and Wales.

It's about reminding people that, despite the ups and downs of the business cycle, most of them had 10 good years: even if unemployment is bad now, and house prices lower, millions did very well for a long time. It wasn't all an accident. It wasn't all wasted or meaningless just because the thunderclouds rolled back again.

For every positive one can find a negative failures, mistaken wars, breaches of faith. But it isn't all black. A Tory government will do things people on the centre left will hate. If ministers and other Labour MPs have an ounce of spirit, or even self-interest, it's time to point these things out. They can't prevent defeat. They could halt catastrophe.

 

[grunt]

mistaken wars

Well I suppose that's one way of putting it! Oops, we started a war by mistake!

The ****s slimeyer than Blair..

Now you're going too far!

 

[Red_and_Green]

I'll miss the general election by about 3 months, if it does go ahead in June and not beforehand. I don't know a lot about politics, but I don't think this Labour Government is the answer.

Saying that though, I certainly don't think the Tories are the answer either and I wouldn't trust them. I'd much prefer seeing the Lib Dems in power, as I think they're the best of the three right now, but that won't happen unfortunately.

 

[wee 162]

I see the psychology at play in your thinking, but I feel those of us who desire the independence of oor country should just stick to voting SNP! I dread te think what the tories will get upto if they get in! They will cut the powers at Holyrood for starters. If we thought the Labour party was sneaky, MY GOD, we've no seen nothing yet!

I fear for the stability of oor country under another conservative regime and I fear for the fragile peace in the North Of Ireland! We have achieved a level of national belief in Scotland I have never known in my 32 years, more and more of us are falling away from that Westminster lie that we are incapable as a people of running oor own affairs, which in its very essence undermines ever Scots sense of self worth at a subconscious level!

I genuinely fear a conservative government in the way the French fear another extreme right wing German ruling party! The things they will do by slight of hand and with a slap will shudder oor new found sense of Scotland to its core! They will do everything they can to destroy the dream of independence!

I want independence, but I won't vote SNP for the exact same reason I won't vote tory. Which is that I don't support their policies.

I would vote yes to independence in a referendum, I won't vote SNP to get me to that stage.

My point wasn't meant to be that smart arsed a one btw. I honestly think that if a tory government gets into power, support in Scotland for independence would explode. And I do genuinely think that if you want independence more than any other thing your best bet would be to vote tory. If the SNP manage to hold a referendum it would be after a general election. The SNP winning a few extra seats at Westminster doesn't make any material difference to the prospect of independence, having a wildly unpopular (in Scotland) UK government would.

 

[Weststandwanabe]

In a general election, those whose main priority is Scottish independence would be well advised to vote tory because that would see a huge increase in the support level for independence....

Do you mean as oppossed to voting S.N.P ?

You go too far!



If the boy David really believes all the shite about the Scots "costing" England so much, then maybe part of his great path back to the workhouse is English Independence, so he doesnt have to "fund" the Barratt formula?

It is the Barnett Formulae but a fair point !

 

[Weststandwanabe]

I want independence, but I won't vote SNP for the exact same reason I won't vote tory. Which is that I don't support their policies.

I would vote yes to independence in a referendum, I won't vote SNP to get me to that stage.

My point wasn't meant to be that smart arsed a one btw. I honestly think that if a tory government gets into power, support in Scotland for independence would explode. And I do genuinely think that if you want independence more than any other thing your best bet would be to vote tory. If the SNP manage to hold a referendum it would be after a general election. The SNP winning a few extra seats at Westminster doesn't make any material difference to the prospect of independence, having a wildly unpopular (in Scotland) UK government would.

Are you having a laugh ?

Best way to Independance is to vote Tory, the party originally known as the Conservative and Unionist Party !

Let me remind you there is only one party advocating a referendum and voting Tory - who are against a referendum - is no way of getting a referendum.

Get a grip or are you a closet unionist ?

 

[Stirlinghibee]

Wee162 is absolutely correct about a Cameron government being the best recruiting agent for the re-establishment of a Scottish state. All you have to do is look at Smurf's reply (who we all know is no friend of the SNP) to see this. ( I know you still not gonnae vote yes, Kenny!!).

However, I dont think anyone in Scotland needs to vote Tory at a Westminster election for this to happen. Brown is utterly despised in England , and the Tories riding high in the polls is more to do with an anti-Labour vote then pro-Tory. The Tories are only where they are by "saying nothing" (Copied from the Blair 1997 model), letting the Government dig it's own hole.

The thing the Tories must be worried about is an election time economic upturn (which, due to Qualitative easing, is the financial equivalent of a dose of red bull, which will soon wear off!) and a new labour leader who resonates with "Middle England" (called Johnson!).

This is a good indication of the "state of play".

"The survey, for the Independent newspaper, gave the Conservative Party support from 40 per cent of voters, with Labour on 24 per cent, the Lib Dems on 21 per cent and other parties on 15 per cent.

However, 53 per cent of respondents said they may change their mind about how they will vote at the next general election.

ComRes polled 1,005 British adults between September 4 and 6."

 

[Smurf]

Wee162 is absolutely correct about a Cameron government being the best recruiting agent for the re-establishment of a Scottish state. All you have to do is look at Smurf's reply (who we all know is no friend of the SNP) to see this. ( I know you still not gonnae vote yes, Kenny!!).

However, I dont think anyone in Scotland needs to vote Tory at a Westminster election for this to happen. Brown is utterly despised in England , and the Tories riding high in the polls is more to do with an anti-Labour vote then pro-Tory. The Tories are only where they are by "saying nothing" (Copied from the Blair 1997 model), letting the Government dig it's own hole.

The thing the Tories must be worried about is an election time economic upturn (which, due to Qualitative easing, is the financial equivalent of a dose of red bull, which will soon wear off!) and a new labour leader who resonates with "Middle England" (called Johnson!).

This is a good indication of the "state of play".

"The survey, for the Independent newspaper, gave the Conservative Party support from 40 per cent of voters, with Labour on 24 per cent, the Lib Dems on 21 per cent and other parties on 15 per cent.

However, 53 per cent of respondents said they may change their mind about how they will vote at the next general election.

ComRes polled 1,005 British adults between September 4 and 6."

If these gutless Labour MP's had balls they'd ditch Brown. Surely they won't find it so terribly difficult to terminate a 'Leader' rollfloor) who was neither elected by the public or by his own party?

I think they won't as they are a gutless lot but IF Darling, Straw, Milliband (absolute coward), Mandelsohn (could he???!!!) or Johnson were to move it could still happen.

I'm hoping (clinging onto something...) that Labour MP's thought earlier on in the year that by leaving the termination until October they'd a, Give Brown more time to establish his 'Leadership' rollfloor) and more importantly b, Think that the public could be put off an immediare election as one is coming early next year anyway...

IF Brown was ditched it will still be uphill but i wouldn't rule out a hung parliament. And if Labour could get more votes or seats than the Tories i suspect the Lib Dems would do a deal with Labour.

The next election is perhaps perceived as one not to win by many but i think Labour MP's are missing a trick in just accepting defeat with Brown.... Should the Tories not win under Cameron then i really believe that they will implode. 4 election defeats... I think they are really only going along with this cuddly version of the Tory Party to get power. Should they not get it then the gloves will be off.

As whatever i think of the Tory Party and the Labour Party one thing is for sure. It's not the party that i support (with much reluctance these days...) that has the balls.

 

[Stirlinghibee]

If these gutless Labour MP's had balls they'd ditch Brown. Surely they won't find it so terribly difficult to terminate a 'Leader' rollfloor) who was neither elected by the public or by his own party?

I think they won't as they are a gutless lot but IF Darling, Straw, Milliband (absolute coward), Mandelsohn (could he???!!!) or Johnson were to move it could still happen.

I'm hoping (clinging onto something...) that Labour MP's thought earlier on in the year that by leaving the termination until October they'd a, Give Brown more time to establish his 'Leadership' rollfloor) and more importantly b, Think that the public could be put off an immediare election as one is coming early next year anyway...

IF Brown was ditched it will still be uphill but i wouldn't rule out a hung parliament. And if Labour could get more votes or seats than the Tories i suspect the Lib Dems would do a deal with Labour.

The next election is perhaps perceived as one not to win by many but i think Labour MP's are missing a trick in just accepting defeat with Brown.... Should the Tories not win under Cameron then i really believe that they will implode. 4 election defeats... I think they are really only going along with this cuddly version of the Tory Party to get power. Should they not get it then the gloves will be off.

As whatever i think of the Tory Party and the Labour Party one thing is for sure. It's not the party that i support (with much reluctance these days...) that has the balls.

Another thing that might "do" for Brown is the fact that the traditional election season is now over. Hence, the jibe that "we must have an election if we have another unelected Prime minister" is muted by the fact that GE 's arnt held over the winter months , and by the time the traditional election season comes around again, the GE would have to take place anyway.

So Alan Johnson can easily replace Brown at the/ or shortly after next Labour conference, and embed himself for six months. Expect lots of briefings to this effect from Labour MP's in the next few weeks.

 

[Smurf]

Another thing that might "do" for Brown is the fact that the traditional election season is now over. Hence, the jibe that "we must have an election if we have another unelected Prime minister" is muted by the fact that GE 's arnt held over the winter months , and by the time the traditional election season comes around again, the GE would have to take place anyway.

So Alan Johnson can easily replace Brown at the/ or shortly after next Labour conference, and embed himself for six months. Expect lots of briefings to this effect from Labour MP's in the next few weeks.

Aye that's what i alluded to in my post (point b) you replied to!

I think Brown has really been the most terrible PM. I really can't respect a man who so many times and on so many issues refuses to give his actual opinion....

We can all think what we think of the Thatcher's and Blair's as PM's but at least you knew where you were with them. They provided leadership regardless to what you thought of it...