Class

[Brainwrong]

This is from 2013 but relevant enough, imo BBC News - Huge survey reveals seven social classes in UK

You can take the test here: BBC News - The Great British class calculator: What class are you?

The new classes are defined as:

• Elite - the most privileged group in the UK, distinct from the other six classes through its wealth. This group has the highest levels of all three capitals

• Established middle class - the second wealthiest, scoring highly on all three capitals. The largest and most gregarious group, scoring second highest for cultural capital

• Technical middle class - a small, distinctive new class group which is prosperous but scores low for social and cultural capital. Distinguished by its social isolation and cultural apathy

• New affluent workers - a young class group which is socially and culturally active, with middling levels of economic capital

• Traditional working class - scores low on all forms of capital, but is not completely deprived. Its members have reasonably high house values, explained by this group having the oldest average age at 66

• Emergent service workers - a new, young, urban group which is relatively poor but has high social and cultural capital

• Precariat, or precarious proletariat - the poorest, most deprived class, scoring low for social and cultural capital

I hear folk on here say class is a meaningless term. But is that not approaching it from it's old meaning of being related to breeding and differing human pedigree and a lack of social mobility?

I think I'm beginning to understand the modern meaning of British class; that it it's related to three things: Income, Social capital and finally Cultural capital.

My understanding before was pretty retarded, to others; from the outside in I would appear to be middle class, but that's not how I saw myself. I identified with Working Class purely due to the household I was brought up in; fuck all cash, dad working all hours god sent and mum at home, dad uber old skool labour and into politics. There wasn't much cultural or social capital. We never went out the country on holiday. The cultural capital we had was the fact my dad was so into politics and philosophy, so there were hunners of books around the house, always and my older sister was given piano lessons. So, as I've grown up and been lucky with what has happened (in my working life), I've held on to that concept & identity because I don't feel like I've changed one bit.

But I have. I left school with no qualifications, I didn't go to uni, I just got one bit of luck after the other, worked hard most of the time (working hard is relative though, I saw what working hard meant for my dad and I'm fucking nowhere near that). The reason I say I've changed is that I have vastly superior social & cultural capital to my parents. What confused me though is that I don't see this as me having changed, I just see myself as having gone through life with the same attitude as I would have had I been digging up gas mains in roads like my dad.

However, I'm coming round to the idea that I was kinda deluded. Not in an affectation kinda way, I mean, I wasn't trying to be a Trustifarian self styled working class hero when my income suggested otherwise, I just couldn't put the dots together because I thought that anything above Working class equated to a Tory, Thatcher, hateful group of people full of sneering snobs.

So, in no way did I want to be associated with that because in the 1980s growing up, it really did feel like an Us / Them situation, certainly in Scotland and probably anywhere North of the Home Counties. To be honest, I don't think anything's changed in that respect which is why I'll be voting Yes, but I digress.

If you can be arsed doing this short test, of the new seven classes listed above; which do you think most closely fits you and if you feel you want to, post what the actual results were.

I'm also interested in how you feel about the 7 new classes. Do they add up?

Are you working class (like my dad was, and I thought I was) but have made things better for your kids, making them shift up a class?

My main problem before was that I was thinking about class these days as purely based on cash. I had no idea of the concepts of social & cultural capital.

I reckon that's why I was confused.

Thoughts?




- - - Updated - - -

For what It's worth, I, as mentioned above, identified with Working Class although knew that I fucking wasn't.

I got the following result:

Result: the class group you most closely match is:
Established middle class
This is the most gregarious and the second wealthiest of all the class groups. According to the Great British Class Survey results, lots of people in this group:

• Enjoy a diverse range of cultural activities
• Went to university
• Are comfortably off, secure and established

This is wrong on a few levels although part of my is annoyed I'm not Elite, ya bas. Purely cause they were the hardest when I was a kid ;)

I'm not established middle class, I'm first generation middle class and in fact only got there around 2005 on a financial level. Although culturally & socially I was well on the way long before that I suppose.

I've never set foot in a uni other than to play cheap pool and drink cheap pints in Teviot.

I'm not secure & established, I live month to month but that's mainly due to my break up with the kids mum, I supposed and some bad life choices.

Anyway, I think it's kinda flawed. But kinda fun too.

I do feel though I'm more likely to go down a class than up one and that's based on two things; Cash & the fact I fucking loath Opera.

 

[egb_hibs]

Technical middle class for me,

I still think it is meaningless nowadays. Once, income, education, etc no doubt correlated quite closely. These days it's all over the place and I don't see the point other than to pigeon hole people. Income is surely what matters these days, in terms of opportunity etc

 

[Brainwrong]

Technical middle class for me,

I still think it is meaningless nowadays. Once, income, education, etc no doubt correlated quite closely. These days it's all over the place and I don't see the point other than to pigeon hole people. Income is surely what matters these days, in terms of opportunity etc

Well, my response to my teacher bint was that I see two strata; the elite and the rest of us. The elite live in another world and the rest of us just have varying degrees of cash.

What I hadn't figured on was the social & cultural aspect which made me miss the point re class entirely.

In the end, I think it all comes down to opportunity. The higher up you are the class system, the more opportunity you have.

I'm endlessly told that I'm the exception to the rule though, leaving school with nowt and not going to uni but still doing well. And I encourage my kids to do well at school and I'll probably encourage them to go to uni because it's getting extremely competitive out there as more kids than ever are getting good grades and degrees.

I reckon you make your own life. I didn't have massive opportunities, I just did a computer course when I was on the dole and that set me up for my working life so far.

Perhaps it's not that easy anymore.

 

[Mickey Harp]

Dad grew up on a council estate in a very working class family and is now a lawyer in Dubai. I have been to state schools, international schools and private schools. What the fuck am I? Bottom line is that the class system is offensive and archaic. It's bullshit.

 

[Dub]

I ended up as;


Traditional working class

This class group scores low for economic, social and cultural factors, but they do have some financial security. According to the Great British Class Survey results, lots of people in this group:

Own their own home
Are older
Tend to mix socially with people similar to themselves

 

[Brainwrong]

Dad grew up on a council estate in a very working class family and is now a lawyer in Dubai. I have been to state schools, international schools and private schools. What the fuck am I? Bottom line is that the class system is offensive and archaic. It's bullshit.

So, what the fuck are you? I'm genuinely interested.

I thought class was offensive until I realised it's not about the old skool way of defining class; it's the three things I mentioned earlier; Economic, Social & Cultural equity.

Those three things combine make in really interesting. Certainly from my perspective where I should definitely not be where I am in the scale.

Being middle class in any sense is anathema to me, or was, until I understood what class means these days and realised it's not a slur. I can be used as such, you get inverted snobbery all the time. But folk like that can GTF as much as the affluent snobs.

 

[Mickey Harp]

So, what the fuck are you? I'm genuinely interested.

I thought class was offensive until I realised it's not about the old skool way of defining class; it's the three things I mentioned earlier; Economic, Social & Cultural equity.

Those three things combine make in really interesting. Certainly from my perspective where I should definitely not be where I am in the scale.

Being middle class in any sense is anathema to me, or was, until I understood what class means these days and realised it's not a slur. I can be used as such, you get inverted snobbery all the time. But folk like that can GTF as much as the affluent snobs.

I honestly have no idea what the fuck I am. Well, apart from a young male with an identity crisis who's paralysed with self-doubt.

 

[Doc Shrink]

Elite.

Possibly I missed a question somewhere.

 

[Brainwrong]

I honestly have no idea what the fuck I am. Well, apart from a young male with an identity crisis who's paralysed with self-doubt.

Snap. ;)

Humour me!

 

[Mickey Harp]

Snap. ;)

Humour me!

I suppose I'm...middle class?

 

[PILTONSTANY]

:hmmm

New affluent workers

This class group is sociable, has lots of cultural interests and is in the middle of all the class groups in terms of wealth. According to the Great British Class Survey results, lots of people in this group:

Are young
Come from a working class background
Own their own home

 

[Kurt]

Could recognise myself fitting into any of those categories. I've done not bad and have had a high level of education luckily but started off with a working class state schooling which was utter shit due largely to the attitude of teachers . I saw this again when briefly doing some teaching in the east of Glasgow. Combined with a perspective on life from working class parents opportunities can be pretty fecking thin on the ground for most people and its a trap now just as it was 60 plus years ago.

 

[egb_hibs]

Well, my response to my teacher bint was that I see two strata; the elite and the rest of us. The elite live in another world and the rest of us just have varying degrees of cash.

What I hadn't figured on was the social & cultural aspect which made me miss the point re class entirely.

In the end, I think it all comes down to opportunity. The higher up you are the class system, the more opportunity you have.

I'm endlessly told that I'm the exception to the rule though, leaving school with nowt and not going to uni but still doing well. And I encourage my kids to do well at school and I'll probably encourage them to go to uni because it's getting extremely competitive out there as more kids than ever are getting good grades and degrees.

I reckon you make your own life. I didn't have massive opportunities, I just did a computer course when I was on the dole and that set me up for my working life so far.

Perhaps it's not that easy anymore.

culture schmulture; when I changed my income on the test it changed me through the classes!

As for opportunity, the rich clearly have it. But the fact is the middle classes of yore succeeded through much derided 'bourgeois values'; hard work, prudence, keeping the family together.

That formula still works today, though other things such as skills affect just how prosperous it will be for given individuals. But it's as unpopular as ever, not least because it's real impact was across generations, it allowed families to gradually improve their position with kids and grand kids benefiting from prior investment then handing that on. Nowadays folk want it all now.

Those values were relentlessly mocked by the upper middle class, thereby encouraging the understandable live for the moment inclination of some of the less affluent. This ensures that over generations they stay that way, and therefore keeps the upper middle class lording it.

The moment I realised that billy Connolly had become a **** was when he was riffing about how great the upper class were because they shared a live for today joi d'vivre with the proles as compared to the stuffy old middle class. As well they might because they can afford to. The stuffy ones were the ones that inched there way upwards through self denial and hard work, and if you're not to the manor born, that's the only reliable way.

And that is what kids should be advised in school rather than filled with the politics of resentment and class, which will keep them down.

- - - Updated - - -

So, what the $#@! are you? I'm genuinely interested.

I thought class was offensive until I realised it's not about the old skool way of defining class; it's the three things I mentioned earlier; Economic, Social & Cultural equity.

Those three things combine make in really interesting. Certainly from my perspective where I should definitely not be where I am in the scale.

Being middle class in any sense is anathema to me, or was, until I understood what class means these days and realised it's not a slur. I can be used as such, you get inverted snobbery all the time. But folk like that can GTF as much as the affluent snobs.

Maybe he's an individual not a category

 

[Brainwrong]

culture schmulture; when I changed my income on the test it changed me through the classes!

As for opportunity, the rich clearly have it. But the fact is the middle classes of yore succeeded through much derided 'bourgeois values'; hard work, prudence, keeping the family together.

That formula still works today, though other things such as skills affect just how prosperous it will be for given individuals. But it's as unpopular as ever, not least because it's real impact was across generations, it allowed families to gradually improve their position with kids and grand kids benefiting from prior investment then handing that on. Nowadays folk want it all now.

Those values were relentlessly mocked by the upper middle class, thereby encouraging the understandable live for the moment inclination of some of the less affluent. This ensures that over generations they stay that way, and therefore keeps the upper middle class lording it.

The moment I realised that billy Connolly had become a **** was when he was riffing about how great the upper class were because they shared a live for today joi d'vivre with the proles as compared to the stuffy old middle class. As well they might because they can afford to. The stuffy ones were the ones that inched there way upwards through self denial and hard work, and if you're not to the manor born, that's the only reliable way.

And that is what kids should be advised in school rather than filled with the politics of resentment and class, which will keep them down.

- - - Updated - - -


Maybe he's an individual not a category

I suspected it was down to cash but didn't bother to re-do the quiz. I will do that thought.

Re Mikey; that's how I saw myself and see myself. But just as I've been confused by the class thing, Mikey seems to be or have been too. Coming from working class backgrounds but then traversing classes really fucks with your head in my experience.

I think I said it above but perhaps not; I just see myself as the same dude no matter where I am and at the end of it all, I'll have had experiences and I'll hopefully pass some good shit on to my kids.

As you can tell, I'm still unsure about the whole thing. But my main issue is, I'm sitting (not right now), but I'm sitting talking with people that are pretty middle class, academics and such, they have a pretty defined view of class, particularly the social sciences professionals, and of how it relates to opportunity and divisions within society etc. All I have is my mind and my experience and my experience is insanely skewed.

Oh and Billy Connolly is a right ****. Pity, he was a top bloke in days of yore. His pussy assed non commitment to a point of view on independence put him even lower on my estimations mountain. Which was an impressive feat.

 

[SlovSam]

I was Elite and I am voting Yes and I have been to every football ground in Scotland including all the deid grounds and I still drink in the "Artful Dodger", "the Silver Wing","The Volley" (as was) and Stratties in Gorgie at 6:00am opening.


Whataloadehshite but thanks for linking.

 

[Greenmachine]

Class is bollox.... The whole idea that somebody sees themselves as a higher "class" than somebody else just because they happen to have a better job or a bigger house or a better car just strikes me as the highest form of arrogance you can possible get in a human being. There is no person any higher or any lower than any other person.

Looking at that list if I had to fall into a category I would be Traditional working class...I was born and brought up in what some would call a "working class" family and I was brought up in a council housing estate in Restalrig/Lochend. I left school at 17 with a few O Grades and highers and started working. I had no intention of ever going to college or university as a) I wasn't bright enough, 2) My family couldn't afford it, and 3) I had absolutely no desire to go as I didn't like school and hated everything to do with classrooms/lectures/exams. As I say though the whole class thing just annoys the hell out of me and I don't believe in it.

 

[GORDONSMITH7]

A follow up on the BBC website a year later about the using survey findings Evolution of the Middle Class...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25744526

and an article based on the above, the original survey and clearly an alternative view of Class... The myth of the Middle Class

http://www.socialist.net/the-myth-of-the-middle-class.htm

BIG G

 

[hibadelic]

Class is bollox.... The whole idea that somebody sees themselves as a higher "class" than somebody else just because they happen to have a better job or a bigger house or a better car just strikes me as the highest form of arrogance you can possible get in a human being. There is no person any higher or any lower than any other person.

Looking at that list if I had to fall into a category I would be Traditional working class...I was born and brought up in what some would call a "working class" family and I was brought up in a council housing estate in Restalrig/Lochend. I left school at 17 with a few O Grades and highers and started working. I had no intention of ever going to college or university as a) I wasn't bright enough, 2) My family couldn't afford it, and 3) I had absolutely no desire to go as I didn't like school and hated everything to do with classrooms/lectures/exams. As I say though the whole class thing just annoys the hell out of me and I don't believe in it.

What group did you actually fall into though?

I think this is an interesting conversation piece but little else. It's heavily weighted towards income as Slovsam pointed out and pays zero attention to family/peers/heritage/background. Not that I'm arguing it should, its just not clear what we're actually trying to judge or measure.

So, in the absence of any actual aims, goals or reasonable metrics with which to measure those non-existent aims or goals. I'd say the game's up the pole.

 

[egb_hibs]

I suspected it was down to cash but didn't bother to re-do the quiz. I will do that thought.

Re Mikey; that's how I saw myself and see myself. But just as I've been confused by the class thing, Mikey seems to be or have been too. Coming from working class backgrounds but then traversing classes really $#@!s with your head in my experience.

I think I said it above but perhaps not; I just see myself as the same dude no matter where I am and at the end of it all, I'll have had experiences and I'll hopefully pass some good $#@! on to my kids.

As you can tell, I'm still unsure about the whole thing. But my main issue is, I'm sitting (not right now), but I'm sitting talking with people that are pretty middle class, academics and such, they have a pretty defined view of class, particularly the social sciences professionals, and of how it relates to opportunity and divisions within society etc. All I have is my mind and my experience and my experience is insanely skewed.

Oh and Billy Connolly is a right ****. Pity, he was a top bloke in days of yore. His pussy assed non commitment to a point of view on independence put him even lower on my estimations mountain. Which was an impressive feat.

the 'class thing' is a way of keeping you in your place.

 

[Greenmachine]

What group did you actually fall into though?

I think this is an interesting conversation piece but little else. It's heavily weighted towards income as Slovsam pointed out and pays zero attention to family/peers/heritage/background. Not that I'm arguing it should, its just not clear what we're actually trying to judge or measure.

So, in the absence of any actual aims, goals or reasonable metrics with which to measure those non-existent aims or goals. I'd say the game's up the pole.

Sorry, I thought I had made that clear in my post. Traditional working class

 

[Kurt]

Has me as elite but the property value and income section are a nonsense for London were. 2 bed flat is over half a million.

Scores change quite a lot if you like art galleries and opera which is another nonsense. Have to say this is crap.

 

[Jack]

I think most folk will know what I think of pigeonholes. I can't see or do the survey on my phone but can obviously see the pigeonholes, no SKII you can't do it for me!

I know many more folk who lie outside these definitions than inside so for that reason I'm out.

Even just taking one element, money, and trying to fit folk in would result in so many different categories. Then you'd have to take in how they got it, how they spend it, is it disposable, what's a liquid asset, what they spend it on and a whole load more.

Is education important when so many leave school with nowt and inherit millions, win millions or make there own millions? More categories! Others leave university and do nowt with their education. Even more categories.

Then social standing ...

With 5.5 million in Scotland we're soon looking at 5.5 million pigeonholes (maybe a pigeonhole for those prone to exaggeration :-) and the same for the rest of the UK. Do other countries and cultures fit in this or do we need even more pigeonholes!

Even thinking about a husband and wife team. Education, background earnings etc. would put them in different categories but how can they be?

It's giving me a headache just thinking about it!

 

[hibadelic]

Sorry, I thought I had made that clear in my post. Traditional working class

You did. Apologies, I can't read. :-)

 

[Brainwrong]

the 'class thing' is a way of keeping you in your place.

However, it's something that quite patently hasn't. In my case.

My original retort has been, through various discussions with my class peers, is that the only thing that differs between folk outside of the elite is varying cash levels. And even the elite, many will be there due to getting themselves there rather than being born into it.

Then my other variable is the Good Guy / Wank formula, which I'm sure you'll understand.

What I'm coming to terms with is I was right all along and my educated pals talk pish.