CfE just surprised it took so long for this to come up in the MSM...

[SKII]

Two-tier education fear over new exam - Edinburgh Evening News

A fair bit back there were discussions on here about what the new CfE meant for pupils and parents and both Broonieboy and myself made the point that, of all things parents and pupils should do, is go to all of the information meetings their respective schools were holding about the model they intended to run AND the courses they will offer in the senior phase. Education cuts are biting hard. Things are not going to stay the same as you experienced when you were at school yourself.

Looks like the penny has only just dropped in leafy Bruntsfield...

I will say it again...when your child gets to the stage they are going to secondary school or are making their course choices it is imperative you find out about the model of senior phase they are running. All schools have information evenings at primary-secondary transition stage and at the course choice stage - so there is always opportunity to get the information you need and if you can't make them, follow it up with the school - and it is more important than ever that families engage.

Going to the EEN once its too late will not help your child.

Most schools now operate a "3 + 3" model - broad general education until the end of S3 and then course choices. Some still operate a "2 + 2+ 2" system that most adults will have done but there will still be no courses started until S4

Some are operating a 2 + 1+ 1+ 2 model. Just dinnae ask...

 

[Davy]

Two-tier education fear over new exam - Edinburgh Evening News

A fair bit back there were discussions on here about what the new CfE meant for pupils and parents and both Broonieboy and myself made the point that, of all things parents and pupils should do, is go to all of the information meetings their respective schools were holding about the model they intended to run AND the courses they will offer in the senior phase. Education cuts are biting hard. Things are not going to stay the same as you experienced when you were at school yourself.

Looks like the penny has only just dropped in leafy Bruntsfield...

I will say it again...when your child gets to the stage they are going to secondary school or are making their course choices it is imperative you find out about the model of senior phase they are running. All schools have information evenings at primary-secondary transition stage and at the course choice stage - so there is always opportunity to get the information you need and if you can't make them, follow it up with the school - and it is more important than ever that families engage.

Going to the EEN once its too late will not help your child.

Most schools now operate a "3 + 3" model - broad general education until the end of S3 and then course choices. Some still operate a "2 + 2+ 2" system that most adults will have done but there will still be no courses started until S4

Some are operating a 2 + 1+ 1+ 2 model. Just dinnae ask...

Totally confused :phew glad my kids are all grown up

 

[broonieboy]

Two-tier education fear over new exam - Edinburgh Evening News

A fair bit back there were discussions on here about what the new CfE meant for pupils and parents and both Broonieboy and myself made the point that, of all things parents and pupils should do, is go to all of the information meetings their respective schools were holding about the model they intended to run AND the courses they will offer in the senior phase. Education cuts are biting hard. Things are not going to stay the same as you experienced when you were at school yourself.

Looks like the penny has only just dropped in leafy Bruntsfield...

I will say it again...when your child gets to the stage they are going to secondary school or are making their course choices it is imperative you find out about the model of senior phase they are running. All schools have information evenings at primary-secondary transition stage and at the course choice stage - so there is always opportunity to get the information you need and if you can't make them, follow it up with the school - and it is more important than ever that families engage.

Going to the EEN once its too late will not help your child.

Most schools now operate a "3 + 3" model - broad general education until the end of S3 and then course choices. Some still operate a "2 + 2+ 2" system that most adults will have done but there will still be no courses started until S4

Some are operating a 2 + 1+ 1+ 2 model. Just dinnae ask...

Spot on SKII.....what's currently happening at a place you and I both know well is leaving kids and parents fuming re coursing.

For example, kids with Italian ancestry, fluent in the language being told they cannae crash Higher or AH because they've no got a Nat 5 in it! Couldnae make it up!

Needless to say, there is very much a "ma baw, ma game" attitude from schools here. Which could come back to bite them on the erky. More out of catchment requests will fly around as parents and pupils start to try and "shop around" to get into a school with a structure and provision that they want.

Rationale seems to be around depth of an individual's education, rather than breadth. Another argument centres around the fact that you can only do 5 Highers in S5 so why do 8 Nationals in S4? No consideration given to the fact a bairn may just LIKE learning loads of different things.

My summation is that some elements of CfE are good, but most of it is a loadypish. I can't help the restructuring of senior phase is partially driven in schools by finances and it gives HTs a method of paring back staffing.

My eldest hits P1 next August, I'm hoping that by the time he gets to HS they get their act together and offer coursing that both children and parents feel is best, not the school. Education is a service industry, the sooner that schools realise that, the better. I'll never have a school, teacher or HT tell me they know better than me about my child's education and I would not hesitate to take my kid out of one school into another if they chose not to meet his needs re coursing.


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[SKII]

Spot on SKII.....what's currently happening at a place you and I both know well is leaving kids and parents fuming re coursing.

For example, kids with Italian ancestry, fluent in the language being told they cannae crash Higher or AH because they've no got a Nat 5 in it! Couldnae make it up!

Is this a consequence of a "hypothetical new regime"? A young person you and I both know well did 9 exams at the end of S4 because one of the two of us - and it wasn't you - taught them one of their subjects at home and all the school did was enter said young person for the exam. No problems for anyone bar the young person and me - and another shiny, fat "A" pass for said young person that didn't have anything to do with the establishment the young person was taught at. And that young person, as you have said, has lots of friends who did crash courses in music, Italian, other MFLs etc because parents were fluent foreign nationals or the young person was a talented musician.

Needless to say, there is very much a "ma baw, ma game" attitude from schools here. Which could come back to bite them on the erky. More out of catchment requests will fly around as parents and pupils start to try and "shop around" to get into a school with a structure and provision that they want.

Guaranteed to happen. Especially as not all schools will provide all courses in the senior phase any more. Parents and kids need to find out well before the end of S3 whether their school will let the young person do, say, AH Maths, if that is what they want to do - or whether the school has done away with that course in the senior phase. It is too late when they get to making S5 course choices and they find out their school doesn't run the courses the youngster wants to do. It has always happened to some extent but it is widespread and much more of an issue now, as we both know.

Rationale seems to be around depth of an individual's education, rather than breadth. Another argument centres around the fact that you can only do 5 Highers in S5 so why do 8 Nationals in S4? No consideration given to the fact a bairn may just LIKE learning loads of different things.

Here is where the pressures come to bear. Some schools will still feel the need (to satisfy parental demands) to provide the 8 subjects model but, with a one year sprint in S4 now, that is not easy for a school to finance/deliver. A 6 subject model allows them to put more bairns in fewer classes and make them more "cost efficient" but with that comes a massive reduction in choice.

The one thing about this article that shocks me is that I thought the one place parent power/demands would have been most influential would have been the "Meadows Triangle" of JGHS, BHS and StToAHS...

Education is a service industry, the sooner that schools realise that, the better. I'll never have a school, teacher or HT tell me they know better than me about my child's education and I would not hesitate to take my kid out of one school into another if they chose not to meet his needs re coursing.

To be fair, the budget restrictions schools now face are enormous. I can see where the motivation comes from for HTs and DHTs to make some of the decisions they do. Doesn't make it right though. However, the only power in all of this lies with parents. They are the only ones politicians and SMTs are accountable to.

Again, people, you HAVE to find out what your local school is delivering.

 

[broonieboy]

Is this a consequence of a "hypothetical new regime"? A young person you and I both know well did 9 exams at the end of S4 because one of the two of us - and it wasn't you - taught them one of their subjects at home and all the school did was enter said young person for the exam. No problems for anyone bar the young person and me - and another shiny, fat "A" pass for said young person that didn't have anything to do with the establishment the young person was taught at. And that young person, as you have said, has lots of friends who did crash courses in music, Italian, other MFLs etc because parents were fluent foreign nationals or the young person was a talented musician.





Guaranteed to happen. Especially as not all schools will provide all courses in the senior phase any more. Parents and kids need to find out well before the end of S3 whether their school will let the young person do, say, AH Maths, if that is what they want to do - or whether the school has done away with that course in the senior phase. It is too late when they get to making S5 course choices and they find out their school doesn't run the courses the youngster wants to do. It has always happened to some extent but it is widespread and much more of an issue now, as we both know.



Here is where the pressures come to bear. Some schools will still feel the need (to satisfy parental demands) to provide the 8 subjects model but, with a one year sprint in S4 now, that is not easy for a school to finance/deliver. A 6 subject model allows them to put more bairns in fewer classes and make them more "cost efficient" but with that comes a massive reduction in choice.

The one thing about this article that shocks me is that I thought the one place parent power/demands would have been most influential would have been the "Meadows Triangle" of JGHS, BHS and StToAHS...




To be fair, the budget restrictions schools now face are enormous. I can see where the motivation comes from for HTs and DHTs to make some of the decisions they do. Doesn't make it right though. However, the only power in all of this lies with parents. They are the only ones politicians and SMTs are accountable to.

Again, people, you HAVE to find out what your local school is delivering.

When parents go to HTs and are told "ahm the expert, your no" it's never going to end well.





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[SKII]

When parents go to HTs and are told "ahm the expert, your no" it's never going to end well.

Oooyah.

You know, I am struggling to think what general provision has been put in place to support the parents and pupils with all of this now that things are delivered on a school by school basis. There is definitely a need for some impartial advice at a central point. There isn't anything though, is there? Or did I blink and miss it?

 

[broonieboy]

Nowt. Nothing. Nada


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