Politics CBI want to further increase student fees

[whiskas]

BBC NEWS | Education | Charge students more, say bosses

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2009/sep/21/cbi-university-fees-funding-crisis

Even ignoring the hypocrisy of a panel of business "fat cats" who no doubt received their University education for free under the old grants system, I think they are falling into the trap that Higher Education is just skilling people up for their (i.e. industry's) benefit.

Call me old-fashioned/ romantic but IMO Higher Education should be as much about learning for learning's sake as it is developing skills for the workplace.

 

[buckie]

bloody students have had it too easy too long, wht should i spend my taxes on them getting pished, taking drugs and buying dungarees and tie-die t-shirts.

long haired louts the lot of them.

 

[KABULHIBBY]

bloody students have had it too easy too long, wht should i spend my taxes on them getting pished, taking drugs and buying dungarees and tie-die t-shirts.

long haired louts the lot of them.

Check list for 1 kid in uni

Getting frequently drunk - Computer says no, the eldest will be in the library most nights until about 10 or 11 pm prepping her dissatation. Closest she and most her year will get to a night out would be a Saturday night at one of the student local haunts.

Drug taking - Computer says no again

Purchase of Dungarees and tie dies - Strike 3, computer concludes you are a no nothing, no mark just spouting off pseudo WVM rhetoric.

Seeing as they will be paying back all their tution fees then it is only fair they get an advance as their taxes will be paying your pension.

 

[jetsam1]

If I was going to University as an undergrad now. I probably wouldn't. Simply because I, and my family couldn't afford it. Because of means testing I had to take out the maximum loan each year, so I have a lot more debt than those who could afford to subsidise their kids. And work.... Lots of work, if you don't work hard you don't pass. A 3rd class degree isn't really worth anything, so a 2.1 or a 1st (which is very hard to get, well it is at the Universities I've attended) are the only worthwhile outcomes.


As it was I got a 2.1 Msci with Honours from a good University. And am now close to finishing my Msc. Which for the record I have saved up for for 2 years to do and bankrupted myself in the process!

So Buckie you would have denied me this opportunity? I think that a lot of people don't realise how important a well qualified workforce is to the country in this day and age. And to be honest the temptation to take my skills and education elsewhere in the world is to be frank.

And I do agree with the first post that their is value in Education for the sake of Education. It is important. A well rounded education and being able to think critically is vital in my opinion. And University is quite a good environment in which to gain a lot of interesting things.......

It just makes me a little angry when people belittle what I've done.

Check list for 1 kid in uni

Getting frequently drunk - Computer says no, the eldest will be in the library most nights until about 10 or 11 pm prepping her dissatation. Closest she and most her year will get to a night out would be a Saturday night at one of the student local haunts.

Drug taking - Computer says no again

Purchase of Dungarees and tie dies - Strike 3, computer concludes you are a no nothing, no mark just spouting off pseudo WVM rhetoric.

Seeing as they will be paying back all their tution fees then it is only fair they get an advance as their taxes will be paying your pension.

Last point is such a valid point! A degree in the right subject still increases earning potential.. and therefore more taxes will be paid! Therefore putting more back into the national pot. Many of my compatriots were doing 24 hour writing sessions to get everything done for the Thesis.

 

[casey1875]

If I was going to University as an undergrad now. I probably wouldn't. Simply because I, and my family couldn't afford it. Because of means testing I had to take out the maximum loan each year, so I have a lot more debt than those who could afford to subsidise their kids. And work.... Lots of work, if you don't work hard you don't pass. A 3rd class degree isn't really worth anything, so a 2.1 or a 1st (which is very hard to get, well it is at the Universities I've attended) are the only worthwhile outcomes.


As it was I got a 2.1 Msci with Honours from a good University. And am now close to finishing my Msc. Which for the record I have saved up for for 2 years to do and bankrupted myself in the process!

So Buckie you would have denied me this opportunity? I think that a lot of people don't realise how important a well qualified workforce is to the country in this day and age. And to be honest the temptation to take my skills and education elsewhere in the world is to be frank.

And I do agree with the first post that their is value in Education for the sake of Education. It is important. A well rounded education and being able to think critically is vital in my opinion. And University is quite a good environment in which to gain a lot of interesting things.......

It just makes me a little angry when people belittle what I've done.



Last point is such a valid point! A degree in the right subject still increases earning potential.. and therefore more taxes will be paid! Therefore putting more back into the national pot. Many of my compatriots were doing 24 hour writing sessions to get everything done for the Thesis.

Yet you will belittle what others have done? As Im just doing my hons now I think it is quite an achievement to get through it with a pass at all, takes a lot of work thats for sure

 

[Forzahibs]

Yet you will belittle what others have done? As Im just doing my hons now I think it is quite an achievement to get through it with a pass at all, takes a lot of work thats for sure

If i had a house worth a million i wouldnt be happy to pay more tax because of that . How many students actually ever pay anything back anyway ?
(Posted fae ma mobile fone)

 

[jetsam1]

Yet you will belittle what others have done? As Im just doing my hons now I think it is quite an achievement to get through it with a pass at all, takes a lot of work thats for sure

Yep, but really from my experience if you can get a 3rd or 2.2, the 2.1 is there for the taking. My Undergrad was quite traditional in outlook with very little in the way of student support from most of the lecturers so it was an issue of self motivation most of the time. Tbh those who got a 3rd in my year got that not from not being bright but because they didn't spend enough time at the coalface. Also some just never got into the subject. As far as I'm concerned it didn't have much to do with relative intellect. I will say though that there is a big gulf between a 2.1 and a 1st in the level of work that is required.

It is true that a 3rd class degree compared to a 2.1 doesn't open the same doors. It's getting more so now. I know of a few companies that have a minimum degree level of a 2.1 or they won't even interview you! It is therefore very much worth putting in the hours and getting that extra few %!

Of course I'm coming from a very narrow academic background in geology, so may be different in your discipline? What are you studying if I can ask? Good luck with it anyway! I didn't mean to offend anyone!

 

[casey1875]

If i had a house worth a million i wouldnt be happy to pay more tax because of that . How many students actually ever pay anything back anyway ?
(Posted fae ma mobile fone)

most because the mojority will get jobs and pay tax not too many will be on the rock and roll i would imagine. Im no givin use any of my money when i graduate im offski!

 

[jetsam1]

If i had a house worth a million i wouldnt be happy to pay more tax because of that . How many students actually ever pay anything back anyway ?
(Posted fae ma mobile fone)

When I was working my Student Loan payments were deducted direct from my pay. So I and everyone who has a loan earning over a certain level will pay it back. Will take most of my working life to do though........

 

[casey1875]

You didnt offend me just being a picky little cntu. Im doing forensic science and you are right a lot of companies wont look at you unless you have a 2-1 especially in my game as there are so few jobs they can just give it to people with a 1st, which unfortunately wont include me, still moan the 2-1. like you said it is just down to how much work you put into it just wish i had helped myself a bit more last year, its left me with more to do now, thats for sure!

 

[buckie]

Check list for 1 kid in uni

Getting frequently drunk - Computer says no, the eldest will be in the library most nights until about 10 or 11 pm prepping her dissatation. Closest she and most her year will get to a night out would be a Saturday night at one of the student local haunts.

Drug taking - Computer says no again

Purchase of Dungarees and tie dies - Strike 3, computer concludes you are a no nothing, no mark just spouting off pseudo WVM rhetoric.

Seeing as they will be paying back all their tution fees then it is only fair they get an advance as their taxes will be paying your pension.

erm i was joking like

I was at UNI many years ago and i was lucky enough to get a grant which i didnt have to pay back and there were no tuition fees then either.

my wife however is saddled with a 20,000 debt from a student loan from her time at University so i know only too well the hardships students endure.

 

[jetsam1]

You didnt offend me just being a picky little cntu. Im doing forensic science and you are right a lot of companies wont look at you unless you have a 2-1 especially in my game as there are so few jobs they can just give it to people with a 1st, which unfortunately wont include me, still moan the 2-1. like you said it is just down to how much work you put into it just wish i had helped myself a bit more last year, its left me with more to do now, thats for sure!

That's cool. Sounds an interesting subject. It can be very frightening the way a lot of the work just sneaks up on you! And deadlines.... Time seems to fly so much more quickly when you have a deadline. Esp when they give you 3 months for a dissertation, over very quickly!

 

[KABULHIBBY]

If I was going to University as an undergrad now. I probably wouldn't. Simply because I, and my family couldn't afford it. Because of means testing I had to take out the maximum loan each year, so I have a lot more debt than those who could afford to subsidise their kids. And work.... Lots of work, if you don't work hard you don't pass. A 3rd class degree isn't really worth anything, so a 2.1 or a 1st (which is very hard to get, well it is at the Universities I've attended) are the only worthwhile outcomes.


As it was I got a 2.1 Msci with Honours from a good University. And am now close to finishing my Msc. Which for the record I have saved up for for 2 years to do and bankrupted myself in the process!

So Buckie you would have denied me this opportunity? I think that a lot of people don't realise how important a well qualified workforce is to the country in this day and age. And to be honest the temptation to take my skills and education elsewhere in the world is to be frank.

And I do agree with the first post that their is value in Education for the sake of Education. It is important. A well rounded education and being able to think critically is vital in my opinion. And University is quite a good environment in which to gain a lot of interesting things.......

It just makes me a little angry when people belittle what I've done.



Last point is such a valid point! A degree in the right subject still increases earning potential.. and therefore more taxes will be paid! Therefore putting more back into the national pot. Many of my compatriots were doing 24 hour writing sessions to get everything done for the Thesis.

Sounds like you're pretty much in the same boat as the eldest mate, she knows she needs minimum of a 2:1 to get anywhere so needs to put the work in to get the required standard, something that most undergrads have understood for the last 10 years or so, IMO of course, which is why a lot of the historical perception of students is now so wide of the mark.

erm i was joking like

I was at UNI many years ago and i was lucky enough to get a grant which i didnt have to pay back and there were no tuition fees then either.

my wife however is saddled with a 20,000 debt from a student loan from her time at University so i know only too well the hardships students endure.

Then the non use of any smilies has meant the post was interepreted differently, IF as you say you were joking then I apologise for the mini rant.

 

[casey1875]

That's cool. Sounds an interesting subject. It can be very frightening the way a lot of the work just sneaks up on you! And deadlines.... Time seems to fly so much more quickly when you have a deadline. Esp when they give you 3 months for a dissertation, over very quickly!

I know especially with 3 subjects all setting them at the same time! Im lookin forward to doing the work for the dissertation should be interesting just not the actual writing of it!

 

[jetsam1]

Sounds like you're pretty much in the same boat as the eldest mate, she knows she needs minimum of a 2:1 to get anywhere so needs to put the work in to get the required standard, something that most undergrads have understood for the last 10 years or so, IMO of course, which is why a lot of the historical perception of students is now so wide of the mark.

I think I was in the last year of students who were relatively relaxed through it. In my 4th year we shared a few field trips and courses with the 3rd years, and they were so much more apparently hardworking than us. Never did anything on the field trips, they all just went to bed.... While us 4th years spent the evening having a few beers with the lecturers! Never seemed to take enough time to switch off from the work though which is also important as when you rely on writing to get you marks, after 10 hours it inevitably drops in quality!

Oh there is still plenty of fun going on, but I think the difference now is that this is only at the start of the academic year and at the end. There are still those who just get carried away totally though. It must be remembered that for a lot of people it is the first time they've ever lived away from home and then find themselves around lots of their peers. THere is a shift in attitude even between when I graduated in 2005 and this year when I've been back around undergrads again.

 

[AngusB]

Im a student and I firmly believe we need to increase fees, yet provide more support for gifted students who cannot afford a higher fee.

1st off, unversities need our money. A university is primarily a source of information, yet the libraries of British universities are massively understocked compared to universities in America. Our facitlities are being shut down or sold to large companies as a means to outsource their own research, meaning that the curriculum of many students becomes tuned to the needs of a 3rd party.

2nd, the deficiencies of the English public school system are finding their way into our universities as we try to provide higher education for all. Our government provides many incentives to go to uni, but the simple truth is that not everyone is cut out for it. While an elitist education system will never be a popular choice, what we are verging on currently is a system of charity that is not conducive to productivity. The value of a university degree has gone down on all levels as students from a poor educational background begin to make up the majority of undergraduates. Couple that with the ever increasing number of unemployed graduates, and a degree is no longer worth the paper its written on.

3rd, and this is where it gets personal for me. I chose to go to university late, at the age of 23. I study a subject that I take an interest in, I work hard and I get good marks. Yet a large part of my learning requires a community of students who can share ideas, influence each others work and provide a reliable partner for collaboration. In a course that has 60 enrolled students, we have no more than 20 who regularly turn up for lectures. Of those, there are only 5 or 6 who take an active roll in discussions. These are the students who have worked hard to come to university. The rest are out pissing your taxes up a wall.

A higher fee will mean that the ones who never show up, the ones who think its all a big joke, can go off and take part in an apprenticeship or something to get to where they want to go in life. If the ones who take it seriously cannot afford a higher fee, then a this is where the government should step in to provide support.

And before anyone thinks otherwise, I could not afford a higher fee if one was to be introduced.

 

[Stirlinghibee]

I was a lucky bassa, as I left school with highers in 1984 and got a job with BP. They sent me on day release through the whole ONC/HNC/GRSC process.

The plus side is obviously no monetary concerns either for the course or for your personal spending. Also, there was none of the lazy bastrds that Ayegudyin describes, as everyone in my class had to get those qualifications or you were "out the door".

The negative side was that you never really felt like a student, four days a week you were working at your job, then for five years ,every wednesday was a 12 hour day at college. The only "studenty" bit I felt was using the matriculation card to get into the cinema cheap!

I would recommend this route into FE for anybody's children. In the end I was treated exactly the same as someone who went to Uni full time.

 

[KABULHIBBY]

I was a lucky bassa, as I left school with highers in 1984 and got a job with BP. They sent me on day release through the whole ONC/HNC/GRSC process.

The plus side is obviously no monetary concerns either for the course or for your personal spending. Also, there was none of the lazy bastrds that Ayegudyin describes, as everyone in my class had to get those qualifications or you were "out the door".

The negative side was that you never really felt like a student, four days a week you were working at your job, then for five years ,every wednesday was a 12 hour day at college. The only "studenty" bit it felt was using the matriculation card to get into the cinema cheap!

I would recommend this route into FE for anybody's children. In the end I was treated exactly the same as someone who went to Uni full time.

That mindset, from an employers POV, seems to be a thing of the past. Most, if not all, will want potential employees to come into the business already qualified, which IMO is a bit shame as they are potentially missing out on a large, fairly cheap workforce.

 

[Stirlinghibee]

That mindset, from an employers POV, seems to be a thing of the past. Most, if not all, will want potential employees to come into the business already qualified, which IMO is a bit shame as they are potentially missing out on a large, fairly cheap workforce.

That's very true. Ineos (BP's successor company in Grangemouth) now have an HNC minimum policy for all their employees.

What was good as well, was that each for qualification you achieved, you got a one off bonus and a pay raise. However, as I said in the previous post, if you "dropped out" or continually failed the exams, then you were expected to "fall on your sword" and , ahem, "further your career outwith the company".

 

[wee 162]

What I'd be in favour of would be re-introducing a grant to some students. Give 7k a year of a grant to the top 10% of grade achievers at every school. And to qualify as part of that 10% you have to live within the school boundaries to stop middle class feckers bussing their bairns in and once again fiddling the system to give their kids better chances than others. Or they can move to Niddrie.

And the grades I would base on how difficult the exams were. If 90% pass a religious education higher with an A, then it isn't as good as a C in chemistry when only 30% have got an a or a b.

 

[jetsam1]

What I'd be in favour of would be re-introducing a grant to some students. Give 7k a year of a grant to the top 10% of grade achievers at every school. And to qualify as part of that 10% you have to live within the school boundaries to stop middle class feckers bussing their bairns in and once again fiddling the system to give their kids better chances than others. Or they can move to Niddrie.

And the grades I would base on how difficult the exams were. If 90% pass a religious education higher with an A, then it isn't as good as a C in chemistry when only 30% have got an a or a b.

I think I'd agree with this, though I think certain subjects at degree level should be given more support. Sciences and Engineering are so important with such declining numbers taking them........

Equality in education should be a basic right. Everyone should have the same opportunities at the start and then as they go through the system go off on different directions etc.

 

[wee 162]

I think I'd agree with this, though I think certain subjects at degree level should be given more support. Sciences and Engineering are so important with such declining numbers taking them........

Equality in education should be a basic right. Everyone should have the same opportunities at the start and then as they go through the system go off on different directions etc.

I would be in favour of abolishing all tuition fees, and giving out scholarships to those who do the difficult degrees tbh.

 

[jetsam1]

It also comes down to the fact that the UK needs scientists and engineers to compete on the international stage as really we should be looking to be world leaders in high technology industries. We can't compete in any other way!

I am concerned about an economy based completely on finance and the service sector....... But if all you produce is art graduates..... ANd there should still be arts degrees, culture is important too, but if as we've just seen there is a big downturn, no-one will be able to afford them as we don't actually produce anything.

I'm not sure if that makes much sense! hahaha!

 

[wee 162]

It also comes down to the fact that the UK needs scientists and engineers to compete on the international stage as really we should be looking to be world leaders in high technology industries. We can't compete in any other way!

I am concerned about an economy based completely on finance and the service sector....... But if all you produce is art graduates..... ANd there should still be arts degrees, culture is important too, but if as we've just seen there is a big downturn, no-one will be able to afford them as we don't actually produce anything.

I'm not sure if that makes much sense! hahaha!

Half the fecking chemistry and physics graduates end up fecking working in the City anyway!

 

[Weststandwanabe]

If i had a house worth a million i wouldnt be happy to pay more tax because of that . How many students actually ever pay anything back anyway ?
(Posted fae ma mobile fone)

My daughter (season ticket holder) completed her university course and has been working for a year and three months ago paid of all she owed by way of student debt and I am quite sure many others do too.

It may be the fact that she studied a subject where it was possible (but still fortunate) to get a job and hence repay the debt as oppossed to studing a subject with no hope of getting a job and therefore no hope or repaying the debt.

Im a student and I firmly believe we need to increase fees, yet provide more support for gifted students who cannot afford a higher fee.

1st off, unversities need our money. A university is primarily a source of information, yet the libraries of British universities are massively understocked compared to universities in America. Our facitlities are being shut down or sold to large companies as a means to outsource their own research, meaning that the curriculum of many students becomes tuned to the needs of a 3rd party.

2nd, the deficiencies of the English public school system are finding their way into our universities as we try to provide higher education for all. Our government provides many incentives to go to uni, but the simple truth is that not everyone is cut out for it. While an elitist education system will never be a popular choice, what we are verging on currently is a system of charity that is not conducive to productivity. The value of a university degree has gone down on all levels as students from a poor educational background begin to make up the majority of undergraduates. Couple that with the ever increasing number of unemployed graduates, and a degree is no longer worth the paper its written on.

3rd, and this is where it gets personal for me. I chose to go to university late, at the age of 23. I study a subject that I take an interest in, I work hard and I get good marks. Yet a large part of my learning requires a community of students who can share ideas, influence each others work and provide a reliable partner for collaboration. In a course that has 60 enrolled students, we have no more than 20 who regularly turn up for lectures. Of those, there are only 5 or 6 who take an active roll in discussions. These are the students who have worked hard to come to university. The rest are out pissing your taxes up a wall.

A higher fee will mean that the ones who never show up, the ones who think its all a big joke, can go off and take part in an apprenticeship or something to get to where they want to go in life. If the ones who take it seriously cannot afford a higher fee, then a this is where the government should step in to provide support.

And before anyone thinks otherwise, I could not afford a higher fee if one was to be introduced.

If you are not studuing politics, you should be !

 

[KABULHIBBY]

Im a student and I firmly believe we need to increase fees, yet provide more support for gifted students who cannot afford a higher fee.

1st off, unversities need our money. A university is primarily a source of information, yet the libraries of British universities are massively understocked compared to universities in America. Our facitlities are being shut down or sold to large companies as a means to outsource their own research, meaning that the curriculum of many students becomes tuned to the needs of a 3rd party.

2nd, the deficiencies of the English public school system are finding their way into our universities as we try to provide higher education for all. Our government provides many incentives to go to uni, but the simple truth is that not everyone is cut out for it. While an elitist education system will never be a popular choice, what we are verging on currently is a system of charity that is not conducive to productivity. The value of a university degree has gone down on all levels as students from a poor educational background begin to make up the majority of undergraduates. Couple that with the ever increasing number of unemployed graduates, and a degree is no longer worth the paper its written on.

3rd, and this is where it gets personal for me. I chose to go to university late, at the age of 23. I study a subject that I take an interest in, I work hard and I get good marks. Yet a large part of my learning requires a community of students who can share ideas, influence each others work and provide a reliable partner for collaboration. In a course that has 60 enrolled students, we have no more than 20 who regularly turn up for lectures. Of those, there are only 5 or 6 who take an active roll in discussions. These are the students who have worked hard to come to university. The rest are out pissing your taxes up a wall.

A higher fee will mean that the ones who never show up, the ones who think its all a big joke, can go off and take part in an apprenticeship or something to get to where they want to go in life. If the ones who take it seriously cannot afford a higher fee, then a this is where the government should step in to provide support.

And before anyone thinks otherwise, I could not afford a higher fee if one was to be introduced.

Where then does this leave certain, now, degree orientated professions such as nursing and teaching. Starting salaries are pretty low (ignore the headlines of average salaries, it takes a good few years of solid employment to get anywhere near those) so you condemn these students to a longer period of repayment, nice way to get recruitment figures up:pullhair:

IF you want to do that then any public sector degree, Social Work, Probation, Nursing (in all it's varients) etc should be fee free provided that a minimum length of service is undertaken, say between 5 and 10 years depending on length and expense of course

 

[AngusB]

Where then does this leave certain, now, degree orientated professions such as nursing and teaching. Starting salaries are pretty low (ignore the headlines of average salaries, it takes a good few years of solid employment to get anywhere near those) so you condemn these students to a longer period of repayment, nice way to get recruitment figures up:pullhair:

IF you want to do that then any public sector degree, Social Work, Probation, Nursing (in all it's varients) etc should be fee free provided that a minimum length of service is undertaken, say between 5 and 10 years depending on length and expense of course

understandable. to be fair my reasoning was focused on one of the other, more 'selfish' degrees - a way into a high paid job. I know that in the US, nurses and doctors come out with hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of debt, however their private healthcare system means that becoming a qualified nurse or doctor is still an attractive prospect. As our healthcare system is funded by taxes, it is only fair that training is also government funded. Remove a large percentage of government spending on higher education (the money currently flooding our universities with unmotivated and uninterested students) and there will be more money to provide the public sector with the training and education it so desperatly needs.

 

[st patrick]

education should always be a right not a privilege (I'm a Modern Studies teacher by the way).

For business to enter its pokey and capitalist nose into education is frankly morally wrong. A student goes to university, has to get a student loan, gets himself into thousands of debt..then basically is scrambling about to get work out of sheer necessity due to the size of his loan. All the while, the banks and such profiteer due to the situation...especially in today's climate where hundred if not thousands of graduates are seeking work. Their loan remain unpaid, the interest goes up and the banks profit further.

I'm with Michael Moore on this one. Huge restraints on the beast that is capitalism has to come about. It is this greed infested culture, a culture of selfishness and individualism that created the so called 'credit-crunch' and this latest proposal is another example of the banks (our banks now!) trying to claw more money out of those least deserving. Mind you, until universities are socially diverse, they generally remain a 'working class' closed shop...perhaps the middle classes should pay more?

 

[Nex]

If a fraction of the money spent to "keep britain safe" from all the evil countries out there was put into extra support for less well off students and indeed increasing university funding it would be a lot less of a problem.

I'm in a pretty poor position university wise, I've got 2 highers and an HNC, I did okay in my first year of university but at the tail end started having problems and became rather ill, unfortunatly I thought I could work through it and pushed on into 2nd year taking extra classes to make up credits...the extra workload totally wiped me out.

So just now I'm 23 with around 1,500 of loan debt, about a years worth of credits from a few rather nightmareish years at uni due to those personal problems. Hopefully I will manage to get myself back together and get back into education and come out with a degree, but I know I am very lucky to have had parents who worked their arses off to be in positions to support me should that be needed.

 

[Dunc89]

It's worrying that the CBI feel they have the right to try to impose their wishes on the way the education system is run, (thankfully) they are not elected representatives.The CBI assumes that the education system exists solely to serve their needs, though Education should always be outwith the sphere of big business influence and exist for it's own sake and for the sake of the individual students first and foremost.

This is complete hypocrisy from these individuals, who, as the OP pointed out, not only would've got their degrees through the grants system, but have recently called for huge cash injections into failing businesses, supporting subsidisation when it suits them.

It is already far more expensive to be a student than it should be, and that's without tuition fees up here. It must be an absolute nightmare in England.

 

[whiskas]

stuff

 

[Nex]

It is already far more expensive to be a student than it should be, and that's without tuition fees up here. It must be an absolute nightmare in England.

That's something I often think. Sure our system isn't perfect, but dear me it's a heck of a lot better than down south, Which makes me think there are other reasons for the Scotland having a lower percentage of lower income people going into further education.

Not an uncommon position to be in unfortunately!

That's something I unfortunatly didn't find out until everything fell appart for me. There is a lot of support out there both within and outside of uni for various problems, some of which may or may not have helped me, but at least it wouldn't have felt like I was totally on my own as things slipped.

I had a really good chat with a guy when it did all kinda come to a head who was very sorry about what had happened and said that it was common in cases like mine for the person to struggle on and unfortunatly make things worse rather than taking time out early and that they are trying their best to be aware of it.

 

[FTJT]

Similar boat to Nex here.

Went to uni in no mindset to succeed - no lack of desire, but a lack of being in a state to cope with it. Figured I'd stumble through.
First year I got through on prior knowledge, bullshit and luck. My end of year exam scores ranged from 75% to 11%.
Second year I continued drinking instead of attending lectures, handed in no coursework and arranged to intercalate at Easter. Should have been seeing a therapist at this point and was given a prescription for Prozac. Didn't go down either path, but I got a summer job and figured if I could do a 9-5 in an office, i could manage at least five hours a day in the library and get a 2:1.
Second year take two: See second year take one. Dropped out fully at Christmas, got scrappy bits of work for the intervening 9 months. Started taking Prozac, didn't get much from it, stopped taking Prozac.

As it stands, I'm working at the moment - part time, and I'm getting to the gym after work. I've told myself I'll see a counsellor and get past the myriad bullshit that had hamstrung me. Remains to be seen if I do.Point is, not everyone making a cock of it at uni is a middle-class dilettante looking for cheap club nights, and if you're not in a great place to start with it can make a mess of your head.

For the record, this was in the English system. Two years of tertiary education has me carrying about 12 grand of debt. I want to try again in one or two years time, but I'll be fucked for cash if I do.

 

[garethni]

If i had a house worth a million i wouldnt be happy to pay more tax because of that . How many students actually ever pay anything back anyway ?
(Posted fae ma mobile fone)

Away and throw shite on yourself.

How many University Students (current/Post-Graduates/Graduates) do you actually know? I pay tax/national insurance just like any other legitimate UK worker, I also pay 50 extra per month towards my loan with the Student Loans Company... furthermore through studying in Scotland I was required to pay 1250 per year (5K) in total for that privilege, this was primarily funded through Summer and Weekend working.

The only students who as you put it "dont pay anything back" are those whom don't work. To tar all students with that brush is a huge insult.