Bravery

[egb_hibs]

I'm in a 'what is it' mood tonight; so, what is it?

I've done things that some people would think brave to the point of insanity.

But I consider myself essentially a coward. All the 'brave' things I've done are because I'm more scared of living with not having done it than the perils of doing it. Which, logically (at least I think, is technically cowardice).


What do others think - especially interested in the views of those who have been at war. In this context, heroism in all it's complexity must come to the fore more than is common.

If we can step past sentimentality - is bravery something that proceeds from a cowardice like my own, from being a nutter, or is it a genuine denial of self?

Because that's what I think real bravery is. I've stepped between the stabbed and the stabber through sheer cowardice; I couldn't have lived with myself otherwise.

But I'm not sure I'm brave enough to act or deny myself from acting, where doing so would be harder to live with for me, versus the greater good. Which for me is real bravery.

 

[FTJT]

could you give some examples of things where you couldn't have lived with yourself that conflict notably with the greater good?

I ask because I've been trying to think of some, and they would all involve a degree of emotional detachment and general treachery, which doesn't seem like a good tradeoff.

 

[egb_hibs]

could you give some examples of things where you couldn't have lived with yourself that conflict notably with the greater good?

I ask because I've been trying to think of some, and they would all involve a degree of emotional detachment and general treachery, which doesn't seem like a good tradeoff.

I don't want to go into too much detail; but for example - an incident I alluded to. Someone getting stabbed; what do you do?

I have in the past intervened, with very nearly disastrous (for me) consequences. But i do not consider it brave; for a complex and indeed absurd set of reasons (i was a young un, and one of those 'reasons' was - and i shit you not - 'hibs never run' despite this being nothing to do with football) it was something i had to do.

different now; with kids to bring up i'm not sure what i'd do now. do the same and risk leaving them fatherless, or do it anyway because it would be better for them to have that example.

But my point, my point - where have i mentioned the victim? i haven't - because really it's all about me.

and thus, i think, not bravery, but cowardice.

 

[Westside Green]

Bravery or stupidity?
Standing outside the bookies and a battle erupts. Over the road from me a boy, I vaguely know, gets battered to the ground and his head jumped on. I run over smack a few of them, drag a few off with the help of a couple of plain clothes. One of the polis said you better gtf before you end up like him, we've got it now. I actually thought i'd saw somebody getting killed.

 

[Dub]

I don't want to go into too much detail; but for example - an incident I alluded to. Someone getting stabbed; what do you do?

I have in the past intervened, with very nearly disastrous (for me) consequences. But i do not consider it brave; for a complex and indeed absurd set of reasons (i was a young un, and one of those 'reasons' was - and i shit you not - 'hibs never run' despite this being nothing to do with football) it was something i had to do.

different now; with kids to bring up i'm not sure what i'd do now. do the same and risk leaving them fatherless, or do it anyway because it would be better for them to have that example.

But my point, my point - where have i mentioned the victim? i haven't - because really it's all about me.

and thus, i think, not bravery, but cowardice.

But was that from instinct or bravery. Adrenalin rush would perhaps account for it.

Serious question now that I've said that - would adrenalin bolster your bravery however slight that might be [the bravery not the adrenalin].

 

[Bannox]

This is the bravest man i have ever heard of, what he done takes exceptional courage, he plays it down saying he thought he may lose a limb.......

bollocks he expected to Die to save his buddies

This should have been a VC

Royal Marine who jumped on grenade awarded George Cross - Telegraph

 

[egb_hibs]

But was that from instinct or bravery. Adrenalin rush would perhaps account for it.

Serious question now that I've said that - would adrenalin bolster your bravery however slight that might be [the bravery not the adrenalin].

Not sure. I really really didn't want to do it. But I really really really didn't want to live with myself if I didn't.

I've certainly been in situations where adrenalin renders one fearless. But knives have always had a sobering effect I've found!

 

[Westside Green]

Not sure. I really really didn't want to do it. But I really really really didn't want to live with myself if I didn't.

I've certainly been in situations where adrenalin renders one fearless. But knives have always had a sobering effect I've found!

Big sticks give you the upper hand.

 

[Robert Barone]

I'd say it's purely subjective based on the circumstances. Sounds obvious but you'd never get a consensus on a "brave act".

I've done things in the past that I viewed as brave..for what I thought at the time were noble reasons..ie people I loved, mates but you reflect now and have a completely different perspective.

Unselfish acts for the benefit of others in the face of known danger is the best definition I could think of.

 

[Brainwrong]

I don't want to go into too much detail; but for example - an incident I alluded to. Someone getting stabbed; what do you do?

I have in the past intervened, with very nearly disastrous (for me) consequences. But i do not consider it brave; for a complex and indeed absurd set of reasons (i was a young un, and one of those 'reasons' was - and i shit you not - 'hibs never run' despite this being nothing to do with football) it was something i had to do.

different now; with kids to bring up i'm not sure what i'd do now. do the same and risk leaving them fatherless, or do it anyway because it would be better for them to have that example.

But my point, my point - where have i mentioned the victim? i haven't - because really it's all about me.

and thus, i think, not bravery, but cowardice.

That's exceptionally warped. Protection is usually my motive, not that I often do brave things but when I have helped folk it's been down to me sensing injustice, seeing a bully etc.

At least that's how it seems to me. Maybe I subconsciously want some kinda glory. Pretty sure it's all instinct though, gut reaction.

 

[egb_hibs]

That's exceptionally warped. Protection is usually my motive, not that I often do brave things but when I have helped folk it's been down to me sensing injustice, seeing a bully etc.

At least that's how it seems to me. Maybe I subconsciously want some kinda glory. Pretty sure it's all instinct though, gut reaction.

you've misunderstood what i'm saying. my instinct is also to protect / defend. but when that involves confronting danger, I am questioning if overcoming that - on my part anyway - involves bravery, when the greater fear is of not acting.

i'm not talking about glory boy stuff; though that may come into for some people

 

[Brainwrong]

you've misunderstood what i'm saying. my instinct is also to protect / defend. but when that involves confronting danger, I am questioning if overcoming that - on my part anyway - involves bravery, when the greater fear is of not acting.

i'm not talking about glory boy stuff; though that may come into for some people

I understood you I just thought it was an unnecessary retrospective summation of your motives. So, you're disturbed that you're doing things for the wrong reasons, sounds like you're doing them for the right reasons to me. All that afterthought seems pointless.

 

[Haruki]

I'm in a 'what is it' mood tonight; so, what is it?

I've done things that some people would think brave to the point of insanity.

But I consider myself essentially a coward. All the 'brave' things I've done are because I'm more scared of living with not having done it than the perils of doing it. Which, logically (at least I think, is technically cowardice).


What do others think - especially interested in the views of those who have been at war. In this context, heroism in all it's complexity must come to the fore more than is common.

If we can step past sentimentality - is bravery something that proceeds from a cowardice like my own, from being a nutter, or is it a genuine denial of self?

Because that's what I think real bravery is. I've stepped between the stabbed and the stabber through sheer cowardice; I couldn't have lived with myself otherwise.

But I'm not sure I'm brave enough to act or deny myself from acting, where doing so would be harder to live with for me, versus the greater good. Which for me is real bravery.

Honesty and truthfullness.

Altruism.

Open-ness of mind.

I consider few capable of this "braveness". A precious few.

Not knocking OP's situ, but to stand up to violence can, at times, take little more than a lack of imagination.

 

[Haruki]

I'm in a 'what is it' mood tonight; so, what is it?

I've done things that some people would think brave to the point of insanity.

But I consider myself essentially a coward. All the 'brave' things I've done are because I'm more scared of living with not having done it than the perils of doing it. Which, logically (at least I think, is technically cowardice).


What do others think - especially interested in the views of those who have been at war. In this context, heroism in all it's complexity must come to the fore more than is common.

If we can step past sentimentality - is bravery something that proceeds from a cowardice like my own, from being a nutter, or is it a genuine denial of self?

Because that's what I think real bravery is. I've stepped between the stabbed and the stabber through sheer cowardice; I couldn't have lived with myself otherwise.

But I'm not sure I'm brave enough to act or deny myself from acting, where doing so would be harder to live with for me, versus the greater good. Which for me is real bravery.

Ironically, a brave comment in my scewered opinion.

 

[roorky]

This is the bravest man i have ever heard of, what he done takes exceptional courage, he plays it down saying he thought he may lose a limb.......

bollocks he expected to Die to save his buddies

This should have been a VC

Royal Marine who jumped on grenade awarded George Cross - Telegraph

Now that is true bravery.
I don't get how he never got a VC? surely having a grenade lobbed at you and your buddies constitutes "in the face of the enemy".
I am no combat or army expert but it makes me wonder are the guidelines for these awards now outdated due to modern weapons and they way wars are fought nowadays?

If he had lost a limb or his life do you think they would have awarded him a VC?.


I watched a programme about army veterans in an army retirement place, and they took some medals from an old guy because he didn't actually meet the requirements to have these medals. I cant remember the exact reason but it was a fairly minor requirement that he had not filled IIRC.