Bin Laden has a bit of a cheek mumping on about crusaders

[egb_hibs]

Been doing a bit of googling following an exchange on the crusades on another thread. On the back of this, I think I am right in saying that there hasn't been a single century (prior to this one) since the birth of Islam where the armies of some Caliph or other, haven't been kicking off somewhere on the soil of Christendom, then Europe.

Makes the period of counterattack that was the crusades seem a bit pissant in comparison.

 

[emerald green]

Been doing a bit of googling following an exchange on the crusades on another thread. On the back of this, I think I am right in saying that there hasn't been a single century (prior to this one) since the birth of Islam where the armies of some Caliph or other, haven't been kicking off somewhere on the soil of Christendom, then Europe.

Makes the period of counterattack that was the crusades seem a bit pissant in comparison.

hmmm. I have a book, read years ago gathering dust somewhere in the house. "God of Battles" its called. Explains very well the aggressive nature of Islam and its duty to expand.

Though I'd say a few times in those centuries you allude to them mohammedians were retaliating

 

[egb_hibs]

hmmm. I have a book, read years ago gathering dust somewhere in the house. "God of Battles" its called. Explains very well the aggressive nature of Islam and its duty to expand.

Though I'd say a few times in those centuries you allude to them mohammedians were retaliating

Retaliating on someone else's soil? Unless you count putting down uprisings from the previously conquered?

 

[Greenman]

 

[am_moroccan]

hmmm. I have a book, read years ago gathering dust somewhere in the house. "God of Battles" its called. Explains very well the aggressive nature of Islam and its duty to expand.

Though I'd say a few times in those centuries you allude to them mohammedians were retaliating:detective:

The book itself explains the aggressive way of spreading hatred and false history, Another big lie in the hand of haters, Islam reached many different places by word not by sword, for example northern Africa, Asia (by the way Islam ruled India for about a thousand years .They had the power to forcibly convert each and every non-Muslim of India to Islam. Today more than 80% of the population of India is non-Muslim. All these non-Muslim Indians are bearing witness to the fact that Islam was not spread by the sword. It also reaches many other south eastern Asia countries, the whole Africa and you even find now muslims in South America and so on.

there is a verse in the Quran which says : "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error" [Al-Qur'an 2:256]

Muslim should not force Islam on others.

 

[egb_hibs]

The book itself explains the aggressive way of spreading hatred and false history, Another big lie in the hand of haters, Islam reached many different places by word not by sword, for example northern Africa, Asia (by the way Islam ruled India for about a thousand years .They had the power to forcibly convert each and every non-Muslim of India to Islam. Today more than 80% of the population of India is non-Muslim. All these non-Muslim Indians are bearing witness to the fact that Islam was not spread by the sword. It also reaches many other south eastern Asia countries, the whole Africa and you even find now muslims in South America and so on.

there is a verse in the Quran which says : "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error" [Al-Qur'an 2:256]

Muslim should not force Islam on others.

Those are good sentiments Ab and Muslim rulers have at times been quite benevolent for their era. But it's absolute nonsense to suggest that Islam was not, to a very significant extent, spread by the sword.

It's rapid spread in it's early years was very closely tied to conquest, including in the places you mention.

As for India, opinions vary, but most point to the massacre of millions of Indians, with some interpretations having it as the single biggest massacre in human history.

 

[shandongreen]

Those are good sentiments Ab and Muslim rulers have at times been quite benevolent for their era. But it's absolute nonsense to suggest that Islam was not, to a very significant extent, spread by the sword.

It's rapid spread in it's early years was very closely tied to conquest, including in the places you mention.

As for India, opinions vary, but most point to the massacre of millions of Indians, with some interpretations having it as the single biggest massacre in human history.

It's all lies made up by hater, itcwas mass suicide in India to make islamists look bad .

I've visited Moorish castles in both Spain and Portugal and they don't look like they were built to be places of love and friendship.

But then Ab may tell me the truth why such things were built when spreading the love was all that ever happened.

 

[egb_hibs]

It's all lies made up by hater, itcwas mass suicide in India to make islamists look bad .

I've visited Moorish castles in both Spain and Portugal and they don't look like they were built to be places of love and friendship.

But then Ab may tell me the truth why such things were built when spreading the love was all that ever happened.

What I find interesting in a way, is that Ab has rather a 'too good to be true' version of his own cultural history whereas in Britain it's the opposite; people are indoctrinated with ideas that we are always the bad guy.

The crusades are an example; almost comically, many in the west have been indoctrinated that the history of islam and the west is one of western aggression. In fact, Islamic caliphs have staged an almost constant assault on Christendom / Europe from the get go; it's almost defined our borders in fact, with much of what is the mediterranean Islamic world, having been territory that was conquered and held, while europe's eastern borders run up to turkey where the eastern roman empire was overrun.

Rights or wrongs to one side, you have to thing that the future belongs to societies that big themselves up, more than it does to those that demonise themselves.

 

[shandongreen]

What I find interesting in a way, is that Ab has rather a 'too good to be true' version of his own cultural history whereas in Britain it's the opposite; people are indoctrinated with ideas that we are always the bad guy.

The crusades are an example; almost comically, many in the west have been indoctrinated that the history of islam and the west is one of western aggression. In fact, Islamic caliphs have staged an almost constant assault on Christendom / Europe from the get go; it's almost defined our borders in fact, with much of what is the mediterranean Islamic world, having been territory that was conquered and held, while europe's eastern borders run up to turkey where the eastern roman empire was overrun.

Rights or wrongs to one side, you have to thing that the future belongs to societies that big themselves up, more than it does to those that demonise themselves.

And this is where Islam stands alone, for people like Ab, it is everything he wishes for and more , and the flip side being that atrocities can be carried out in the name of Allah, with the West being always to blame even in the eyes of peaceful Muslims like Ab.

I think there is no wrong in Islam, only a reason for it.

 

[gun ainm]

I thought we were all agreed that it wasnt religion that cause wars, rather it was people who used religion to justify wars that are really about power, resources and wealth?

I wonder if there has been a century since the birth of christianity (including this one) when some nominally christian (or perhaps even devout) king/emperor/politician hasnt invaded someone elses territory?

how do we think the 'soil of christendom' got defined in the first place....?

 

[am_moroccan]

And this is where Islam stands alone, for people like Ab, it is everything he wishes for and more , and the flip side being that atrocities can be carried out in the name of Allah, with the West being always to blame even in the eyes of peaceful Muslims like Ab.

I think there is no wrong in Islam, only a reason for it.

Islam, the west ... what you try to compare here Geographic sites or religions?

Christians in spain were treated so well and it s not me who says this but the historians. it would be better saying a thankful word for what Muslims brought to Europe in that period of history when your men came from England to get knowledges and sciences from Spain. you have visited spain and portugal and didnt they show you what Christians did to Muslims and Jews?

If I am blaming the west as you said then it s because there is the good and the bad everywhere and the west is not a perfect place/society. just recently, a priest tried to burn th Quran in 9/11, In spain they build a night club which looks like a mosque and naming it Macca. is this not something to be blamed for?. I am here to stand for my thoughts.

fair point from gun ainm above.

 

[snoots]

I think all Ab is doing is providing a balance. As egb states there were benevolent aspects to Islam as well. Science in the West would be centuries behind if it weren't for 10th Century Muslim/Spain.

Threads packed with Islam/Christianity are aggressive religions aren't much good without some balance being there.

Christians defend their history as well.

 

[emerald green]

The book itself explains the aggressive way of spreading hatred and false history, Another big lie in the hand of haters, Islam reached many different places by word not by sword, for example northern Africa, Asia (by the way Islam ruled India for about a thousand years .They had the power to forcibly convert each and every non-Muslim of India to Islam. Today more than 80% of the population of India is non-Muslim. All these non-Muslim Indians are bearing witness to the fact that Islam was not spread by the sword. It also reaches many other south eastern Asia countries, the whole Africa and you even find now muslims in South America and so on.

there is a verse in the Quran which says : "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error" [Al-Qur'an 2:256]

Muslim should not force Islam on others.

oh?, you've read it?

I'm sure you'll find that it was not written by a "hater" at all.

Its a factual book you see, and I'm unsure as to how facts can be construed this way. Egb is bang on the money I'm afraid. Islam, especially in the first couple of centuries is, most definately spread by the sword. To deny this would be folly.

 

[emerald green]

Islam, the west ... what you try to compare here Geographic sites or religions?

Christians in spain were treated so well and it s not me who says this but the historians. it would be better saying a thankful word for what Muslims brought to Europe in that period of history when your men came from England to get knowledges and sciences from Spain. you have visited spain and portugal and didnt they show you what Christians did to Muslims and Jews?

If I am blaming the west as you said then it s because there is the good and the bad everywhere and the west is not a perfect place/society. just recently, a priest tried to burn th Quran in 9/11, In spain they build a night club which looks like a mosque and naming it Macca. is this not something to be blamed for?. I am here to stand for my thoughts.

fair point from gun ainm above.

Why is it offensive to muslims if someone on the other side of the globe burns a religious book? Can't muslims be content that jahannam awaits them, a nasty chastisement! ?

 

[am_moroccan]

Why is it offensive to muslims if someone on the other side of the globe burns a religious book? Can't muslims be content that jahannam awaits them, a nasty chastisement! ?

would you allow someone to burn your house as long as you know the prison awaits him?

the answer to your question is that the Quran is a HOLY book, it s the word of God who they worship every day and night. It s a book they love more than any other thing.

 

[am_moroccan]

oh?, you've read it?

I'm sure you'll find that it was not written by a "hater" at all.

Its a factual book you see, and I'm unsure as to how facts can be construed this way. Egb is bang on the money I'm afraid. Islam, especially in the first couple of centuries is, most definately spread by the sword. To deny this would be folly.

Go ahead and prove it, to be folly is to believe whaterver dropped on our minds.

 

[egb_hibs]

I thought we were all agreed that it wasnt religion that cause wars, rather it was people who used religion to justify wars that are really about power, resources and wealth?

Speaking personally I am careful to say - or mostly, sometimes I fall into the trap - that this is the case with christianity rather than religion as an undifferentiated blob. A bizarre product of PC is that people get uncomfortable with precision in this area, but I try to limit my claims mostly because i don't know the history of other parts of the world as well.

Christianity and Islam are profoundly different in their basics; the former was founded by a pacifist, the latter by a warrior. That said, I very strongly suspect Islam has been a net reducer of violence overall; a brake on man's innate appetites. However, it's fundamentals don't provide such a ready made brake on warfare as Christianity's do. It also provided the basis for a civilisation; and civilisations are more militarily capable than pagan nomadic tribes. This can't be held against it though.

I wonder if there has been a century since the birth of christianity (including this one) when some nominally christian (or perhaps even devout) king/emperor/politician hasnt invaded someone elses territory?

Yes, but in the west, regimes were all secular. There is no such line in the Islamic caliphates of history; Islam was spread by conquest from the beginning and the line between that and secular invasions is blurrier. Moreover, wars within the west, didn't really extend the purview of an alternative civilisation; Europe's borders are, in a very real sense (as Tony B used to say), defined by where they meet Islam's. And the borders are where they are now, because parts of what previously was Christendom, (and would have become europe) were conquered and stayed conquered, unlike the Iberian peninsula and swathes of eastern europe.

how do we think the 'soil of christendom' got defined in the first place....?

By the conversion of the natives through missionaries mostly (though, the times being what they were, this would sometimes mean by the conversion of the king or whatever). The early histories of Christianity and Islam are entirely different.

 

[egb_hibs]

I think all Ab is doing is providing a balance. As egb states there were benevolent aspects to Islam as well. Science in the West would be centuries behind if it weren't for 10th Century Muslim/Spain.

Threads packed with Islam/Christianity are aggressive religions aren't much good without some balance being there.

Christians defend their history as well.

The muslim contribution to science is indeed laudable and makes an idiot out of ignoramuses like Kilroy Silk. However, I also think it's overplayed due to the 'western cringe' that likes to flagellate ourselves and big up everyone else.

Averroes work didn't really embed in Muslim soil, it was in Christendom that his ball was picked up and run with. And the whole Al Andaluz thing was a bit fleeting and had it's dark sides as well, including hareems full of young boys.

But your essential point I couldn't agree with more; balance is always required.

 

[egb_hibs]

Islam, the west ... what you try to compare here Geographic sites or religions?

The west was not a religious empire the way caliphates were. However in my posts - and I realise you are not replying to me - I have used the expression Christendom, then europe / the west, because the 'west' did start as an area defined by common religion, and but then became a much more secularly defined entity.

Christians in spain were treated so well and it s not me who says this but the historians.

Western historians love to emphasis the good in others and the bad in ourselves. It would be hard for you to grasp Ab, and I dont blame you if it is - because it's mad.

In actual fact, the fate of Dhimmis in Al Andaluz was a lot less pleasant than it is sometimes cracked up to be. That said, a lot less bad than the fate of jews and muslims under christian regimes elsewhere, and indeed a lot less bad than the fate of jews, christians and pagans under muslim regimes elsewhere.

Moreover there are bad comparisons made here; a mature Al Andaluz is compared to the formative crusader kingdom of Outremer. By the time that was established, the various religions also lived in peace. Equally, at the time islamic armies initially arrived in places, generally their was a bloodbath (don't know if this was the case in spain, and it's so far back we may not have a good picture).

If I am blaming the west as you said then it s because there is the good and the bad everywhere and the west is not a perfect place/society. just recently, a priest tried to burn th Quran in 9/11,

If you are talking about that mad pastor, he is not a priest, and he got lots of abuse for it and called it off. Much less attention was given to an atheist who went ahead and did it mind you (he burned a bible as well)

In spain they build a night club which looks like a mosque and naming it Macca. is this not something to be blamed for?. I am here to stand for my thoughts.

I don't know the club in question, but I doubt that was intended to be offensive. I suspect it's not intended to be a mosque so much as an arabic building. You get that in the west Ab - you probably get it in Morocco - people set up 'theme' bars or clubs, which are based on different places or contexts. I doubt it was intended maliciously.

 

[am_moroccan]

If you are talking about that mad pastor, he is not a priest, and he got lots of abuse for it and called it off. Much less attention was given to an atheist who went ahead and did it mind you (he burned a bible as well) I don't know the club in question, but I doubt that was intended to be offensive. I suspect it's not intended to be a mosque so much as an arabic building. You get that in the west Ab - you probably get it in Morocco - people set up 'theme' bars or clubs, which are based on different places or contexts. I doubt it was intended maliciously.

I find no reason for making a night club looks like a mosque , and this happened in Murcia in spain, this is an obvious insult to us, Muslims were protesting and a moroccan hacker has hacked their website, after weeks of pressure and discussion they finally accepted to change the shape and the name of the club. I only found these photos, there has been plenty of them in FB but all deleted by now. unfortunately this happens in a world where we look for living in peace all together.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waMQ3m5N4eI&feature=related

 

[BurbankHibee]

I find no reason for making a night club looks like a mosque , and this happened in Murcia in spain, this is an obvious insult to us,

Don't you think you are being a tad oversensitive ?

Muslims were protesting

A favorite pastime in the muslim world.

after weeks of pressure and discussion they finally accepted to change the shape and the name of the club.

By discussion don't you mean threats, intimidation, stamping of feet (and of course hacking their website) ?


I swear I sometimes think you are somebody on the wind up doing a parody.

 

[Greenman]

I would just like to know what I have to do to get my Virgins can any of the prophets on this thread help me here

 

[am_moroccan]

Don't you think you are being a tad oversensitive ?


A favorite pastime in the muslim world.


By discussion don't you mean threats, intimidation, stamping of feet (and of course hacking their website) ?


I swear I sometimes think you are somebody on the wind up doing a parody.

You have nothing to say except this, but Hey I know your way of dealing with issues like this

Yes man it was by dialogue and negotiation. All ambassadors of muslim countries and the muslim community representatives in Spain were sitting to discuss the issue with the night club owners and they finally decided to change it.

"We thought the name was just a minor detail, but for (the Muslims) it was a really big thing," said Pedro Morata, one of the owners of the establishment.

I would never expect to see such thing made in a shape of a church in a muslim country. this wouldnt be allowed by the state anyway.

why dont you say a word of justice and condemn this... but i know why you wont ...


have you read this?

"A hacker even broke into the website of the establishment, threatening with "a war between Spain and the people of Islam".
I have seen the the message the hacker put in the website and there is nothing that says "threatening with war ..." that s ridiculous and makes me laugh, the hacker said I wont let the website back till you change the name of the night club... but people like you BurbankHibee would beileve every thing you read on the net.

 

[Greenman]

What never ceases to amaze me is here we have people protesting about a night club in Spain being built to resemble a mosque yet the same people could not give two flying fcuks about the abuse of women.

Women are being abused, even mutilated IN THE NAME OF ISLAM


FFS :doh

 

[Zitellis Heid]

What never ceases to amaze me is here we have people protesting about a night club in Spain being built to resemble a mosque yet the same people could not give two flying fcuks about the abuse of women.

Women are being abused, even mutilated IN THE NAME OF ISLAM


FFS :doh

That, my friend, is a link so cheap, it`s not really worth the retort.

Abdel tries to educate, and understand, and still, cheap shots like this are accepted.

Try reversing the google search, I`m sure you will find it to be just as cutting.

You will scoff, and I know you will, but when I post Christian abhorrations of the mass-murder of Muslims.(yes, even to this day) I also know that you won`t even CONSIDER opening the link. ("It`s from an Islamic site")

Take the blinkers off son.

All religions are guilty. Read both sides? Will you fuck. :sad

 

[am_moroccan]

What never ceases to amaze me is here we have people protesting about a night club in Spain being built to resemble a mosque yet the same people could not give two flying fcuks about the abuse of women.

Women are being abused, even mutilated IN THE NAME OF ISLAM


FFS :doh

Abusing a woman is not because of faith but because of individual actions, and have a look on stats about how many women are being abused every min or hour in your democratic west. If Islam is abusing women you wouldnt see more and more women converting to it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHxF3tbK8EY


building a night club as a mosque shape is a responsibility of the state, thousands and thousands of muslims are living in spain and an official building like this allowed by the state is just unaccepted matter. as I said I would never expect my state to let such thing happens here .

I think you heard of Ayaan Hirsi Ali and how did she lie to the dutch authorities just to live in Netherlands. many Muslims have tried to appear as victims of Islam just to gain the west protection.

 

[Zitellis Heid]

So loaded stats are here........

BBC News - Muslim woman 'abused' over dress by Christian hotelier

BBC by the bye. :coffee:

Also interesting.......names of the accusers.

Always the victims? Of course.

 

[snoots]

The muslim contribution to science is indeed laudable and makes an idiot out of ignoramuses like Kilroy Silk. However, I also think it's overplayed due to the 'western cringe' that likes to flagellate ourselves and big up everyone else.

Averroes work didn't really embed in Muslim soil, it was in Christendom that his ball was picked up and run with. And the whole Al Andaluz thing was a bit fleeting and had it's dark sides as well, including hareems full of young boys.

But your essential point I couldn't agree with more; balance is always required.

I wasn't really referring to just one person but the culture as a whole. While Libraries were being maintained in Andalus, Baghdad and muslim sicily they were wasted or worse burned in the west. A lot of Greek and Latin works only came down to the Renaissance because they were kept in the Caliphates' and re-translated when they worked their way back west (usually by reconquest of land and capture of the libraries, the Spanish capturing Anadalus and the Normans Sicily - some works came via the refugees of the vanquished Constantinople but they had originally came from Muslim translations themselves).

If those Libraries hadn't kept those works the Dark Ages and Medieval times would be stretched by centuries.

 

[egb_hibs]

So loaded stats are here........

BBC News - Muslim woman 'abused' over dress by Christian hotelier

BBC by the bye. :coffee:

Also interesting.......names of the accusers.

Always the victims? Of course.

The ultimate self hater arrives.

Tell you what Z; no defending the pillocks involved here; but compared to women being murdered for dressing 'inappropriately' I know which civilisation I'm happier in. Maybe



you....



should

think about

...that


...random and vague conspiracy theory remark

 

[Greenman]

That, my friend, is a link so cheap, it`s not really worth the retort.

Abdel tries to educate, and understand, and still, cheap shots like this are accepted.

Try reversing the google search, I`m sure you will find it to be just as cutting.

You will scoff, and I know you will, but when I post Christian abhorrations of the mass-murder of Muslims.(yes, even to this day) I also know that you won`t even CONSIDER opening the link. ("It`s from an Islamic site")

Take the blinkers off son.

All religions are guilty. Read both sides? Will you fuck. :sad

You post away about christian abhorrations who gives a fcuk, and your spot on I dont give two fcuks about reading both sides. I know which side I'm on and the blinkers are staying on bye Greetin about a disco that looks like a mosque and your asking me to take the blinkers off FFS ye couldny make it up.

You keep tossin the hand grenades bud ah feckin love it. Oh and bye the way as for religion and churches the last time I was in one some canute tried tae drown me.

In fact why dont you start another thread about the big bad admins. :smug::smug:

 

[egb_hibs]

That, my friend, is a link so cheap, it`s not really worth the retort.

Silly Paddy; only iranian agit prop is legit.

Abdel tries to educate, and understand, and still, cheap shots like this are accepted.

IIII'm ZH and folks, ah'll be here all week

Try reversing the google search, I`m sure you will find it to be just as cutting.

Nope. False equivalence is for sixth form twats; yer too old bud.

You will scoff, and I know you will, but when I post Christian abhorrations of the mass-murder of Muslims.(yes, even to this day) I also know that you won`t even CONSIDER opening the link. ("It`s from an Islamic site")

Do you wear tin foil on your head Z? Nothing remarkable btw about christians abhorring mass murder; don't we all?

Take the blinkers off son.

Lol.

All religions are guilty. Read both sides? Will you fuck. :sad

All, all. So comforting, is the blanket statement. So meaningless. Father, absolve us of the need to think.

I in your base killing all your dude, lamer.

 

[Greenman]

The ultimate self hater arrives.

Tell you what Z; no defending the pillocks involved here; but compared to women being murdered for dressing 'inappropriately' I know which civilisation I'm happier in. Maybe



you....



should

think about

...that


...random and vague conspiracy theory remark

For all we know Mr Vogelenzang might be paid up member of the mossad

 

[shandongreen]

That, my friend, is a link so cheap, it`s not really worth the retort.


All religions are guilty. Read both sides? Will you fuck. :sad

Can't believe you called an admin a fuck after what happened to Buckie,oopsi just called him Billy when I met him at the petrol station earlier lol

 

[Greenman]

Can't believe you called an admin a fuck after what happened to Buckie,oopsi just called him Billy when I met him at the petrol station earlier lol

Its terrible ah want ma fiver back

 

[Zitellis Heid]

Sooo......O.K....

Let me get this right........"Stished" posting is not recommended.........having re-read the above, I`m inclined to agree.

Damn it! Now I gotta expain it all again tomorrow, (and cringe a bit) :yawning:

No one is on my astral plain, that is clear.

However, religious point-scoring (or not, if you read Abdels posts) is a wee bit crass.

I am neither Muslim nor Christian,or Jewish. And as far as my Bhuddist thoughts lead me, nor am I Shintoist.

Point-scoring is indeed just that........ pointless.

Shit, this stuff still ain`t worn off yet, sorry, I love my fellow man, and all that he strives for. Whatever his leanings.

However (and there always is one) Google is not always your friend.

Sometimes, if you dig deeper, other friends emerge. Not always agreeing with your own philosophy.

You only find what you`re looking for though.

Bollox to this, I`m only two balloons away from take-off right now.

Later. Yah bams. :bye

 

[Zitellis Heid]

Can't believe you called an admin a fuck after what happened to Buckie,oopsi just called him Billy when I met him at the petrol station earlier lol

And you can shut yer gub tae. :coffee:

 

[Zitellis Heid]

Where`s Haruki when ye want some easy poker money?

 

[BurbankHibee]

Christians in spain were treated so well and it s not me who says this but the historians.

Hardly. Just "google" "Christian Martyrs in Spain" and things start to unravel.

it would be better saying a thankful word for what Muslims brought to Europe in that period of history when your men came from England to get knowledges and sciences from Spain.

What did "muslims" bring exactly that requires us to kiss the backsides of muslims for ever more ?

 

[Zitellis Heid]

You post away about christian abhorrations who gives a fcuk, and your spot on I dont give two fcuks about reading both sides. I know which side I'm on and the blinkers are staying on bye Greetin about a disco that looks like a mosque and your asking me to take the blinkers off FFS ye couldny make it up.

You keep tossin the hand grenades bud ah feckin love it. Oh and bye the way as for religion and churches the last time I was in one some canute tried tae drown me.

In fact why dont you start another thread about the big bad admins. :smug::smug:

Don`t remember that one.

 

[Zitellis Heid]

The ultimate self hater arrives.

Tell you what Z; no defending the pillocks involved here; but compared to women being murdered for dressing 'inappropriately' I know which civilisation I'm happier in. Maybe



you....



should

think about

...that


...random and vague conspiracy theory remark

And maybe you could question why our troops are being picked off (on an almost daily basis) due to their involvement in an illegal war? :115: