Benefit Reforms

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Jack

Jack

Private Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Canny believe they've not had a mention here today!

I suspect the loony right are only just dipping their toe in the water and there's much worse to come.

If IDS, I didn't know he was an Edinburgh laddie, gets away with this someone much harder line than he will be slipped in to complete the genocide.
 
Jack said:
Canny believe they've not had a mention here today!

I suspect the loony right are only just dipping their toe in the water and there's much worse to come.

If IDS, I didn't know he was an Edinburgh laddie, gets away with this someone much harder line than he will be slipped in to complete the genocide.
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Onto a loser Jack. All scrounging bastards. Even those with birth defects. Bastards in another life, obviously.

I predict tears. :tuttut:
 
I am all for reforming the welfare system because its laden with problems, but the process has to have a vision on how it'll improve society (and that doesn't necessarily mean more expense) rather than merely be driven by a cost cutting exercise. I don't see anything other than cuts for cost's sake in this crap. I wonder at what point we get 'proper' social unrest as the wealth gap widens and society polarises?
 
Jack said:
Canny believe they've not had a mention here today!

I suspect the loony right are only just dipping their toe in the water and there's much worse to come.

If IDS, I didn't know he was an Edinburgh laddie, gets away with this someone much harder line than he will be slipped in to complete the genocide.
Click to expand...
Genocide?! The lesson remains as ever: don't ever allow labour to be elected again. The very mild trimming going on here compared to elsewhere on the continent which had been less badly governed than we were by labour is painful enough. If we were to bear the real cost of it then heaven knows where we'd be. The destroyers should never govern again.
 
egb_hibs said:
Genocide?! The lesson remains as ever: don't ever allow labour to be elected again. The very mild trimming going on here compared to elsewhere on the continent which had been less badly governed than we were by labour is painful enough. If we were to bear the real cost of it then heaven knows where we'd be. The destroyers should never govern again.
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"Very mild trimming" :rollfloor

You know, sometimes I wonder how long the Tories would have to be in government until it stopped being "all Labour's fault" for you. How long after 1997, by your reckoning, were labour busy undoing the fuckups of the Tories' previous 18 years before their policies became their own?

The parliamentary blame-game is just tedious. "If we were to bear the real cost of it"?! It'd be a sight less painful if everyone was involved in bearing the cost, rather than just starting at the bottom and swinging axes until there's nothing left to take, while life at the top carries on as if nothing ever happened.
 
Jack said:
Canny believe they've not had a mention here today!

I suspect the loony right are only just dipping their toe in the water and there's much worse to come.

If IDS, I didn't know he was an Edinburgh laddie, gets away with this someone much harder line than he will be slipped in to complete the genocide.
Click to expand...

Its beggar thy neighbour economic from the Tories. They only exist to maintain the position of the elite and dribble little enough down to the Daily Mail reading classes who they have managed to convince are middle class. The current economic crisis has allowed them to go in with the boot up for the under-privileged but also slash at middle England as well. Unless you're in the top few percent the Tories have no regard for you.
 
aggie said:
"Very mild trimming" :rollfloor

You know, sometimes I wonder how long the Tories would have to be in government until it stopped being "all Labour's fault" for you. How long after 1997, by your reckoning, were labour busy undoing the fuckups of the Tories' previous 18 years before their policies became their own?

The parliamentary blame-game is just tedious. "If we were to bear the real cost of it"?! It'd be a sight less painful if everyone was involved in bearing the cost, rather than just starting at the bottom and swinging axes until there's nothing left to take, while life at the top carries on as if nothing ever happened.
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Oh how wrong you are aggie. The rich just havent continued as before, their wealth and accumulation of wealth has increased dramatically.

That banker on the telly set out quite clearly why things are not getting better - because its not in his/their interest.
 
aggie said:
"Very mild trimming" :rollfloor

You know, sometimes I wonder how long the Tories would have to be in government until it stopped being "all Labour's fault" for you. How long after 1997, by your reckoning, were labour busy undoing the fuckups of the Tories' previous 18 years before their policies became their own?

The parliamentary blame-game is just tedious. "If we were to bear the real cost of it"?! It'd be a sight less painful if everyone was involved in bearing the cost, rather than just starting at the bottom and swinging axes until there's nothing left to take, while life at the top carries on as if nothing ever happened.
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Yes, slight trimming. Government spending is at record heights and all the Tories have done is marginally reduce the alarming trajectory at which it is growing. Compare to the apocalyptic cuts in countries that were less badly governed and get some perspective.

As to the second point - labours carnage can almost directly be dated to the point they abandoned initial commitment to stick to Tory plans and did their own thing.

Complaining about the blame game is usually loudest on the part of those (or their supporters) who categorically caused a mess. It can't just be waved away - there is after all every chance labour will hey back in in a couple of years to resume the madness. Meanwhile the coalition cannot really tackle the problem due to the fickle and irresponsible way in which the system discourages us from recognising what caused this, what is required in response and other realities.
 
Jack said:
Oh how wrong you are aggie. The rich just havent continued as before, their wealth and accumulation of wealth has increased dramatically.

That banker on the telly set out quite clearly why things are not getting better - because its not in his/their interest.
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Absolutely - and yet people complain when I point out labour are the establishment party.

How loud, I wonder, do these guys laugh when the victims of
It all bend over backwards to argue for the system that created this?
 
egb_hibs said:
Yes, slight trimming. Government spending is at record heights and all the Tories have done is marginally reduce the alarming trajectory at which it is growing. Compare to the apocalyptic cuts in countries that were less badly governed and get some perspective.

As to the second point - labours carnage can almost directly be dated to the point they abandoned initial commitment to stick to Tory plans and did their own thing.

Complaining about the blame game is usually loudest on the part of those (or their supporters) who categorically caused a mess. It can't just be waved away - there is after all every chance labour will hey back in in a couple of years to resume the madness. Meanwhile the coalition cannot really tackle the problem due to the fickle and irresponsible way in which the system discourages us from recognising what caused this, what is required in response and other realities.
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While an independent Scotland start a new dawn........:banana:
 
Dr Shrink said:
He is indeed.

Let's see it then




That's a wee link there...:lookaround:
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As i read earlier, it is not the fact of living off 53 a week, it is the lost hope, the never ending despair.
Different ball game living off that amount when you know deep down, everything is going to be back to great wealth soon
 
hattrick baker said:
As i read earlier, it is not the fact of living off 53 a week, it is the lost hope, the never ending despair.
Different ball game living off that amount when you know deep down, everything is going to be back to great wealth soon
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Spot on.
:approve:

But sign the petition anyway and make the fcuker squirm.
:Sparkle_Cool:
 
I literally did not think it possible but the Daily Mail just jumped the shark

BG4Kd1xCEAA_Q0K.jpg:large
 
All this "it's labours fault, it's the Tories fault" is a crock of shite
Anybody over 40 realises that they both spout the same shite , just in different dialect

It's always some bodies other fault, and the opposition always have the answers but never the solutions

Labour were in power during a global high. They fucked up, like the rest of Europe. I doubt very much the Tories would have done much different , better or worse
 
tayside hibee said:
All this "it's labours fault, it's the Tories fault" is a crock of shite
Anybody over 40 realises that they both spout the same shite , just in different dialect

It's always some bodies other fault, and the opposition always have the answers but never the solutions

Labour were in power during a global high. They fucked up, like the rest of Europe. I doubt very much the Tories would have done much different , better or worse
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:applause:
 
tayside hibee said:
All this "it's labours fault, it's the Tories fault" is a crock of shite
Anybody over 40 realises that they both spout the same shite , just in different dialect

It's always some bodies other fault, and the opposition always have the answers but never the solutions

Labour were in power during a global high. They fucked up, like the rest of Europe. I doubt very much the Tories would have done much different , better or worse
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Maybe so. It's a whole social model that has failed. But as well as labour being the ones who literally took a hatchet to the economy during their period in office, it is the the wider set of values which new labour represent which have really done for us. All the insane state borrowing necessitated by social breakdown nurtured by metro liberal values, the mercenary selfishness and brutal rationalism that the 60a generation introduced to commerce, all the nihilistic obsession with meeee and the scorning of the future just as previously the past was scorned ... All of it a seamless garment, all of it the product of a world view politically embodied in new labour (though present in the metro liberal now running the Tories)

All of this - and it still has miles to run - is the realisation of a Programme and it will not do to give it they're all the same. I marvel at the efforts to smudge things in this way. Perhaps because the implications go a lot further than Westminster and are too painful to contemplate ?
 
arthurduncan said:
I literally did not think it possible but the Daily Mail just jumped the shark

BG4Kd1xCEAA_Q0K.jpg:large
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Apart from the timing - what is actually wrong with this? This case is indeed a ghastly lens on the degradation of dependency culture. A sort of jet black flip side to shameless, the establishments favourite chuckle at the proles and their polysexual grubbing
 
How much money is the bedroom tax expected to rake in? The whole argument that it is a necessary move to combat the deficit to me is like saying taking a piss to a forest fire would do the trick.

It leaves me lost for words that the government goes after people who have a spare room in a council flat and paint them as the root cause of all our ills while Boy George flies over to the continent to defend bankers bonuses to save the city.

What's being done about the level of tax we lose through companies like Amazon and Vodafone? What's actually being done against the banks that brought the country to its knees?

Fuck all, and I despair when I hear/read "well we can vote in Labour in 2015". They won't reverse/change a thing that the Tories are doing and will just continue the work.

Anyone voting no next year needs their head examined.
 
egb_hibs said:
Apart from the timing - what is actually wrong with this? This case is indeed a ghastly lens on the degradation of dependency culture. A sort of jet black flip side to shameless, the establishments favourite chuckle at the proles and their polysexual grubbing
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The guy is scum but it's far from the norm,there's less than 5 families in the whole of the UK that live like this.

Believe it or not the vast majority of people on benefits would give their right arm for a decent job and a nice house in a nice area.
 
If you think voting yes changes anything you are kidding yourself.
It worries me that independence is now being touted as the latest way to avoid facing the reality of what is going on here, just as one dimensional assaults on bankers or the state (depending on ones biases) have been previously.
 
egb_hibs said:
Apart from the timing - what is actually wrong with this? This case is indeed a ghastly lens on the degradation of dependency culture. A sort of jet black flip side to shameless, the establishments favourite chuckle at the proles and their polysexual grubbing
Click to expand...

Its reductionist and offensive pish, thats whats wrong with it. Was Shipman used as an exemplar of the middle class professional? Was he feck, but you and the Mail are quite happy to use a horrible episode like this as an exemplar of 'benefits Britain'.
 
There is little connection between shipmans acts and any wider social context - this crime is inextricably bound up with the worst symptoms of welfare dependency.

As for being happy with things - from an advocate of pretty much everything that screws the less well off, your opprobrium is a bit cute
 
PILTONSTANY said:
The guy is scum but it's far from the norm,there's less than 5 families in the whole of the UK that live like this.

Believe it or not the vast majority of people on benefits would give their right arm for a decent job and a nice house in a nice area.
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Where does your 5 families come from? He is an extreme example of the fractured and multi part composite families that are a lot more prevalent than that. They are all over the place and the misery that comes with it pervasive though of course hardly anyone responds like this prick
 
egb_hibs said:
Where does your 5 families come from? He is an extreme example of the fractured and multi part composite families that are a lot more prevalent than that. They are all over the place and the misery that comes with it pervasive though of course hardly anyone responds like this prick
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The Mail is suggesting the Welfare state is to blame for societys ills but i'd be willing to take a bet that there are more folk that don't claim benefits causing bigger harm to the country that those that do.
Dealers,Gangsters,Tax evaders etc

Here's your link:http://old.24dash.com/news/housing/2012-11-06-Only-five-families-claiming-100-000-in-housing-benefit
 
psychocandy said:
even when saddled with the RBS's debt?
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Red herring.

Its been established that contributions to a bank bail out are on the basis of where the operation took place - mostly London.

This is why 3 countries bailed out a Belgian bank and the UK government 'helped' the Irish.

And apart from that the bail outs have been more a case of underwriting the debt rather than paying it off.
 
egb_hibs said:
Apart from the timing - what is actually wrong with this? This case is indeed a ghastly lens on the degradation of dependency culture. A sort of jet black flip side to shameless, the establishments favourite chuckle at the proles and their polysexual grubbing
Click to expand...
So it was the product of welfare states fault that this very man stabbed his 17 year old GF 27 times when she dumped him when he was 20... And his rape?
No.
The guy is a psycho
 
PILTONSTANY said:
The guy is scum but it's far from the norm,there's less than 5 families in the whole of the UK that live like this.

Believe it or not the vast majority of people on benefits would give their right arm for a decent job and a nice house in a nice area.
Click to expand...

too true not that you would know that from jeremy kyle et al
 
psychocandy said:
even when saddled with the RBS's debt?
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Even when saddled with a proportional share of RBS debt as RBS despite having Scotland in the name are an International company the majority of their business is not done here.

The precident set by the bank Fortis which was jointly bailed out by Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxembourg as the company was a major banking organisation in all three.

Beaten by Jack.

Though to be honest Scotland could probably take on the entire RBS debt considering an Independent Scotland wouldn't plan to replace Trident, wouldn't have some of the highest military spending in the world for the most unfit for purpose military on the planet and so on.
 
egb_hibs said:
There is little connection between shipmans acts and any wider social context - this crime is inextricably bound up with the worst symptoms of welfare dependency.
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You're effectively saying that what you define as the dependency culture turns people in mass murderers, of their kids no less. Its feckin nonsense and frankly disgusting. Shipman did what he did because he was a c**t. Philpott did what he did because he is a c**t. It wasn't being on benefits that made him do it just as it wasn't being a GP or middle class that made Shipman do it. Context is important but so is not making wild unsubstantiated links between things.

A
egb_hibs said:
s for being happy with things - from an advocate of pretty much everything that screws the less well off, your opprobrium is a bit cute
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Feckin yawn. What do I advocate that screws the less well off? Taking money from the poor, nope, that would appear to be you.
 
Nex said:
Though to be honest Scotland could probably take on the entire RBS debt considering an Independent Scotland wouldn't plan to replace Trident, wouldn't have some of the highest military spending in the world for the most unfit for purpose military on the planet and so on.
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How do you know?

You know who will govern before we have even decided whether independence is wanted?
 
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