Belgian woman sells child to French homo parents

[HaarlemShuffler]

RIJSIJK - On Friday, the Belgian tv channel VTM reported that a Belgian woman sold her child in December 2012 for 5000 euros to a gay French couple.

The host mother was artificially inseminated with the sperm of one of the two men and gave birth in Paris to a boy.

In Belgium, there is no specific law regarding host mothers. In France, it is against the law and furthermore, gay couples are not allowed to adopt children. This is why they often go looking for a host mother in Belgium.

In Belgium, the woman was not charged. The gay couple in France risk jail.

From a popular Dutch news site (right of centre, like the gov).

I just read a couple of days ago that now 50% of adopted children in Belgium go to gay couples, up by a lot of percent on a few years before.

While I don't have any particular view on the morality or not of the topic, it seems a bit rich to be sellin 'em off for peanuts to all and sundry, gay or not.

I know nothing of the Belgian adoption system, but maybe they just see the gays as having less 'baggage' than the straights afa as adoption is concerned.

Not really trying to stir much up here, just reporting stuff that happens over here. Proof will be in the pudding in 30 years time, I guess....

 

[Jack]

Surrogate mothers are nothing new and indeed its legal here for them to be paid reasonable expenses. Some expenses will be more reasonable than others I'd suspect.

I have to admit that gay couples acquiring kids doesn't sit right with even my don't give a shit attitude. Even their argument of it doesn't matter so long as they are loving parents makes me feel a little uneasy, although it makes perfect sense.

It will be easy for some to get on their soap box and be very one side or the other but I'll just stick my fingers in my ears.

LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA

 

[egb_hibs]

I have to admit that gay couples acquiring kids doesn't sit right with even my don't give a shit attitude. Even their argument of it doesn't matter so long as they are loving parents makes me feel a little uneasy, although it makes perfect sense.

no it doesn't. Higher species with complex nurture needs, including Homo sapiens, have consistently evolved distinct genders to facilitate those complex needs. If we we ignore this we are no different to creationists - except this has a lot more consequences.

Interesting that you feel this way, on such a central subject where we all bear collective responsibility as to decisions made about children in our society, and yet you're opting for fingers in the ears which isn't standard jack stuff. The establishment really have got people intimidated haven't they?

 

[egb_hibs]

From a popular Dutch news site (right of centre, like the gov).

I just read a couple of days ago that now 50% of adopted children in Belgium go to gay couples, up by a lot of percent on a few years before.

maybe Belgiums like here where so many people are eliminated from the process for not having the correct views on things. As an aside, so much for the salmons assurances that Scotland's adoption agencies wouldn't be shut down if they refused to place kids with gay couples. At the time I noted this as an example of the snps lighter tough versus the fascistic nu labour. I should have known - the establishment class that spans all the main parties is in a grip of a kind of religious mania, while contempt for democracy has long been increasing.

By the way I'm not sure whether we'll need to wait 30 years. It's hard to judge anything clearly in such a loaded situation where everyone has an agenda - legal decisions have for example been taken on the back of loads of (deliberately) flawed research. But from what I have read, heretical studies that use statistically valid sampling, measure beyond infancy etc, are finding grimly predictable results. Such heresies will of course be suppressed until its too late. I think it's important people realise that we're basically living under theocracy.

 

[Jack]

no it doesn't. Higher species with complex nurture needs, including Homo sapiens, have consistently evolved distinct genders to facilitate those complex needs. If we we ignore this we are no different to creationists - except this has a lot more consequences.

Interesting that you feel this way, on such a central subject where we all bear collective responsibility as to decisions made about children in our society, and yet you're opting for fingers in the ears which isn't standard jack stuff. The establishment really have got people intimidated haven't they?

Its a tricky one for me eeg because, despite what I said above, I do have strong views on the subject. Indeed two very strong views.

Unfortunately for me they are the complete opposite of each other. Which is why I can see it would be easy for each side to get on their soap boxes with justifiable arguments - but also suggesting that never the twain shall agree.

 

[egb_hibs]

Its a tricky one for me eeg because, despite what I said above, I do have strong views on the subject. Indeed two very strong views.

Unfortunately for me they are the complete opposite of each other. Which is why I can see it would be easy for each side to get on their soap boxes with justifiable arguments - but also suggesting that never the twain shall agree.

If you have two contradictory views its ideal fodder for debate - straighten things out

Are you torn between what you know to be rational and true and the religious ideals we are all indoctrinated in? People need to be courageous I think, with the advance of political correctness and militant secularism, the sun is setting on enlightenment values.

 

[Jack]

If you have two contradictory views its ideal fodder for debate - straighten things out

Are you torn between what you know to be rational and true and the religious ideals we are all indoctrinated in? People need to be courageous I think, with the advance of political correctness and militant secularism, the sun is setting on enlightenment values.

That's the problem eeg rational and true and the religious ideals tend not to be rational nor true nor ideal.

The world has eventually reached a point where some of us accept there is no one solution to anything, what is right for one person will not necessarily be the right thing for another.

We are a long way from that as far as religious bodies are concerned. Nations are no closer. Religions and nations are in constant conflict. Right down to individuals there's an unwillingness, an intransigence, to accept there may be an alternative.

We will also have to accept that for some questions there is no right answer.

 

[EA2007]

Proof will be in the pudding in 30 years time, I guess....

15 years should be enough when Elton John's "kid" is mincing about and blowing all and sundry.

Spoilt Brat prone to tantrums and hissy fits as well no doubt.

:pf:

 

[OB1875]

I have to admit that gay couples acquiring kids doesn't sit right with even my don't give a shit attitude. Even their argument of it doesn't matter so long as they are loving parents makes me feel a little uneasy, although it makes perfect sense.

I offended a gay friend at work with that exact opinion.

I worry for the children when they attend school and the bullying that would happen.

 

[Hattie]

I offended a gay friend at work with that exact opinion.

I worry for the children when they attend school and the bullying that would happen.

Exactly.

Where are the social workers who "always" put the child first in this scenario?

The kids could and most probably would have an absolute nightmare throughout their school life, but i imagine it would not be PC to even acknowledge that would happen.

Crazy world

 

[Zitellis Heid]

Exactly.

Where are the social workers who "always" put the child first in this scenario?

The kids could and most probably would have an absolute nightmare throughout their school life, but i imagine it would not be PC to even acknowledge that would happen.

Crazy world

Is it so crazy? Gay/Homosexual tendencies have always been here. Go back to the start of recorded history.

The questions/issues have never been truly addressed.

Does a gay couple, a gay child make?

Does a lesbian couple a lesbian child make?

Lesbian couple adopt male child. What does that make?

Gay couple adopt female child. What do we expect?

P.C. or not, we live in an increasingly equal and tolerant society, fuck the sell-out mother, she is not the issue here, the issue is the children involved.

We can`t chastise something we don`t have a basis to judge upon. That`s for up the road, surely?

We are either all equal as humans, or we are still simply blind/bigotted to the thoughts of our fore-fathers.

How do we learn? How do we move forward? Again.....

I`d rather that a child was brought up in a healthy, clean and open "Family" than being abused by Junkie fucks.

Does that make it wrong? Or does that solve a problem?

FWIW I don`t believe that a child can be "Made Gay" by either sex, (I honestly believe it`s genetic) but there surely comes a time of tolerance, where we wait and see what the outcome is.

Why not now?

 

[EA2007]

Is it so crazy? Gay/Homosexual tendencies have always been here. Go back to the start of recorded history.

The questions/issues have never been truly addressed.

Does a gay couple, a gay child make?

Does a lesbian couple a lesbian child make?

Lesbian couple adopt male child. What does that make?

Gay couple adopt female child. What do we expect?

P.C. or not, we live in an increasingly equal and tolerant society, fuck the sell-out mother, she is not the issue here, the issue is the children involved.

We can`t chastise something we don`t have a basis to judge upon. That`s for up the road, surely?

We are either all equal as humans, or we are still simply blind/bigotted to the thoughts of our fore-fathers.

How do we learn? How do we move forward? Again.....

I`d rather that a child was brought up in a healthy, clean and open "Family" than being abused by Junkie fucks.

Does that make it wrong? Or does that solve a problem?

FWIW I don`t believe that a child can be "Made Gay" by either sex, (I honestly believe it`s genetic) but there surely comes a time of tolerance, where we wait and see what the outcome is.

Why not now?

Those may be valid points but none of them even remotely address HB's concern that the kid will get it tight at school which is a given in my opinion.

Maybe you quoted the wrong post of course.

 

[Zitellis Heid]

Those may be valid points but none of them even remotely address HB's concern that the kid will get it tight at school which is a given in my opinion.

Maybe you quoted the wrong post of course.

Yeah, maybe I did. Sorry.

There has to come a time where the acid test is taken?

Let`s face it though, one-parent family, free dinners, fat, arse oot the troosers even acne........kids have/will be bullied forever.

What`s the option, or the quick fix?

Fuctifino.

 

[egb_hibs]

That's the problem eeg rational and true and the religious ideals tend not to be rational nor true nor ideal.

The world has eventually reached a point where some of us accept there is no one solution to anything, what is right for one person will not necessarily be the right thing for another.

We are a long way from that as far as religious bodies are concerned. Nations are no closer. Religions and nations are in constant conflict. Right down to individuals there's an unwillingness, an intransigence, to accept there may be an alternative.

We will also have to accept that for some questions there is no right answer.

The religion that I was talking about was the new state religion of rights and politic correctness. The traditional religions are clearly on the side of reason on this one, and on other points where the orthodoxy of the day has gone mad.

The each to his own get-out doesn't work here either. We are talking about children; you need to back what you think is right with this one.

 

[egb_hibs]

Is it so crazy? Gay/Homosexual tendencies have always been here. Go back to the start of recorded history.

The questions/issues have never been truly addressed.

Does a gay couple, a gay child make?

Does a lesbian couple a lesbian child make?

Lesbian couple adopt male child. What does that make?

Gay couple adopt female child. What do we expect?

P.C. or not, we live in an increasingly equal and tolerant society, fuck the sell-out mother, she is not the issue here, the issue is the children involved.

We can`t chastise something we don`t have a basis to judge upon. That`s for up the road, surely?

We are either all equal as humans, or we are still simply blind/bigotted to the thoughts of our fore-fathers.

How do we learn? How do we move forward? Again.....

I`d rather that a child was brought up in a healthy, clean and open "Family" than being abused by Junkie fucks.

Does that make it wrong? Or does that solve a problem?

FWIW I don`t believe that a child can be "Made Gay" by either sex, (I honestly believe it`s genetic) but there surely comes a time of tolerance, where we wait and see what the outcome is.

Why not now?

Do you deny evolution or do you think that it is unimportant that higher species evolved distinct genders to support nurture?

 

[Jack]

The religion that I was talking about was the new state religion of rights and politic correctness. The traditional religions are clearly on the side of reason on this one, and on other points where the orthodoxy of the day has gone mad.

The each to his own get-out doesn't work here either. We are talking about children; you need to back what you think is right with this one.

No we don't and thankfully I don't have to.

That's were the fingers come in.

There are so many injustices to politic on one where I myself am confused just muddies the waters - but personally I think that is ok in this instance where, as I suggested before, there is no right answer.

 

[Hattie]

Yeah, maybe I did. Sorry.

There has to come a time where the acid test is taken?

Let`s face it though, one-parent family, free dinners, fat, arse oot the troosers even acne........kids have/will be bullied forever.

What`s the option, or the quick fix?

Fuctifino.

Does that make it al right then ZH?
We all know how cruel kids can be, i could imagine the shit a kid with "two" dads would get, it would be tantamount to a torturous life imo.
Absolutely not fair on the kid.
Does any kid deserve to be bullied? I know you think not.
People would never think there kid would be bullied for anything, but as you say, it does happen for the slightest wee thing, so something whether right or wrong like this would bring the kids into so much conflict with other kids it would be shameful and scary what they would go through.
All imo

 

[Zitellis Heid]

Do you deny evolution or do you think that it is unimportant that higher species evolved distinct genders to support nurture?

In all honesty Eeeeeee, I`m neither admitting nor denying a thing here.

I`m, for once throwing out the questions. I don`t have the answers to.

As I alluded to though, when do we grow, and admit that a trial (monitored, of course) should be at least accepted, or we will learn the square root of.....yeah. Ya know.

Having pondered and re-read your points.......maybe it`s evolution I`m getting at.

Maybe we should accept the existance of same-sex relationships, study up-bringings/results, then base it on that.

Otherwise, we can`t learn. Truly.

 

[Zitellis Heid]

Does that make it al right then ZH?
We all know how cruel kids can be, i could imagine the shit a kid with "two" dads would get, it would be tantamount to a torturous life imo.
Absolutely not fair on the kid.
Does any kid deserve to be bullied? I know you think not.
People would never think there kid would be bullied for anything, but as you say, it does happen for the slightest wee thing, so something whether right or wrong like this would bring the kids into so much conflict with other kids it would be shameful and scary what they would go through.
All imo

I don`t get what you are saying exactly. Bullying, in all it`s forms, should be fucked right out of society.

We don`t live in that world tho` do we?

Bullying to this day, is causing teen suicides all over the Nation. For ANY fucking reason, as you state.

Maybe if we took a hard line on that, then we could move on.

However, if the kid with 2 Dads, 2 Mums, gets a better life, we have to look into it.

Don`t we?

 

[Hattie]

I don`t get what you are saying exactly. Bullying, in all it`s forms, should be fucked right out of society.

We don`t live in that world tho` do we?

Bullying to this day, is causing teen suicides all over the Nation. For ANY fucking reason, as you state.

Maybe if we took a hard line on that, then we could move on.

However, if the kid with 2 Dads, 2 Mums, gets a better life, we have to look into it.

Don`t we?

Just meaning that kids get bullied for having spots, what would it be like in this scenario.....

I agree, bullying has happened for all time, and a very hard line should be taken, but it seems easier to ignore.
I have heard all the "we do everything we can"

My son when at primary school, was hit by a laddie, he was always told to hit back, so he did. The right way to deal with bullies, stand up to them.
We got pulled into the school for this, as my son was seen, even though my son explained what happened not a jot was said to the other kid.
Come and tell us they said. Fair enough
So we said we will continue to tell him to hit back if anyone hits him. Then he can go and tell the school.
It happened once more as the laddie thought he would get away with it as my son got into trouble, but no, my son hit him back and then told the teacher.
Guess what.
We were pulled into the school again and not the other laddies parents
We do not condone that they said, what about the other kid i said

I told my son if he hits you again, hit him so hard he will never hit you back, "but i will get in trouble" he said
Let me deal with that i said, always stand up or yourself, but laddie must have learned his lesson with my son, he never came near him again.....needless to say though, the wee shit that hit him started on another laddie, who never hit him back and it went on for a while.
After a while though it came back to us that the school knew all along, as he had a lot of previous for it, but the laddie had something wrong with him, adht:hmmm attention deficit or some pish, i call it being a cheeky wee bassa with an excuse
Anyway, my point being, they knew exactly what said kid was like, but turned a blind eye to it.
Off topic probably.
Schools will never stop bullying imo.

 

[Zitellis Heid]

Sorry Hattie, I didn`t mean to mis-quote or mis-represent your view.

I`m with you on this. I was bullied by a fuck for years. My fault, he was physically bigger and stronger, and had loads of "mates" laughing away as he went about it.

One day though, I realised........"I`m bigger than that fuck...time is now"

I laid him out with a left hook, and with sheer rage threw him down a railway embankment,15-20ft, deep into a bramble bush. He felt that.

Now he offers me beers whenever I meet him.

My reason for being bullied? Fear of the repercussions. And they came in the form of 3 weeks "off school" So your right.

It needs addressing.

So does a kid being bullied for having same-sex parents, as another reason, will no doubt come up?

Time we moved on.

Or are we, as a society, still uneasy on this?

 

[Hattie]

Sorry Hattie, I didn`t mean to mis-quote or mis-represent your view.

I`m with you on this. I was bullied by a fuck for years. My fault, he was physically bigger and stronger, and had loads of "mates" laughing away as he went about it.

One day though, I realised........"I`m bigger than that fuck...time is now"

I laid him out with a left hook, and with sheer rage threw him down a railway embankment,15-20ft, deep into a bramble bush. He felt that.

Now he offers me beers whenever I meet him.

My reason for being bullied? Fear of the repercussions. And they came in the form of 3 weeks "off school" So your right.

It needs addressing.

So does a kid being bullied for having same-sex parents, as another reason, will no doubt come up?

Time we moved on.

Or are we, as a society, still uneasy on this?

Quality ZH

As a society, i think it is fucked already mate....