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Fritz

Fritz

Private Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2009
Celtc and sevco colt teams apparently competing in the SPFL from next year. If this happens, i`m done.
 
I think all clubs should be given the option to enter at the lowest level or spread around the regional levels.

But to be limited to 2 clubs, fuck them. They took away our reserve leagues to destroy the competition, now they find a way to benefit.

Where's the fan reps at?
Get information out here, I wanna know.
 
Hammi said:
I think all clubs should be given the option to enter at the lowest level or spread around the regional levels.

But to be limited to 2 clubs, $#@! them. They took away our reserve leagues to destroy the competition, now they find a way to benefit.

Where's the fan reps at?
Get information out here, I wanna know.
Click to expand...

This.
 
Hammi said:
I think all clubs should be given the option to enter at the lowest level or spread around the regional levels.

But to be limited to 2 clubs, fuck them. They took away our reserve leagues to destroy the competition, now they find a way to benefit.

Where's the fan reps at?
Get information out here, I wanna know.
Click to expand...
From what I can understand, it breaks down like this:

- Any club is allowed to enter a colt team, and they will start in either the Highland or Lowland league.
- No colt team can rise higher than League One, meaning the Championship and Premiership won't see colt teams.
- No Championship or above means no Scottish Cup or League Cup entries. Mickey Mouse cups are fine.
- The age limit for players in colt teams is 21 (though I imagine they'd end up looking like the development league teams).
- Teams need full staffing ability and need to meet appropriate stadium criteria for the league they're in.

So, in other words, there's technically no impediment to any club fielding a colt team. The problem for most clubs will be coming up with the finances to run two full match day operations, which is why Celtic and "Rangers" are the two clubs cited. In reality, of course, it'll only really mean Celtic because "Rangers" are skint and, right now, don't have anywhere near the finance to lease another stadium. Anyone who accepts their IOU is in for a rude awakening.

From what I can figure out, Hibs are one of the clubs who are investigating the possibility.

Sound good?

Yeah, no.

Celtic and "Rangers" have already unofficially applied and sounded out league teams in order to jump right in at League Two. Secondly, there's going to be a two-year trial period that ONLY includes Celtic and "Rangers" because other clubs aren't ready yet. It's also understood that there's an offer to let both clubs play every game away from home, rather than having to come up with a stadium and run match day operations; I wonder which club running on financial fumes that's supposed to assist?

When push comes to shove, the rules are being bent to give the Old Firm a two-year leg up. Worse, one of those rules looks to be getting bent in order to save a club about to go into administration the hassle of having to pay their way. We've heard this somewhere before.

The game in Scotland is rigged by its governing body.

Who knew?
 
Colt teams work in Spain in terms of it allowing the big clubs to develop young players - they still receive good coaching & access to the best facilities while developing into first team ready players. Good for the player. The result is the big clubs have a constant flow of players who either go into the first team or are sold on. The downside is it’s all geared towards the benefit of the big clubs, to the detriment of smaller clubs.

If it happens in Scotland, and only the Glasgow twins are involved, it could be the death of youth academies at other clubs. Bringing back the reserve league, and maybe entering the reserve teams into the challenge cup would be a decent compromise.
 
Zellviren, you wrote that in such a way I'm Fuckin raging now
Started off brilliant, no reason why we wouldn't...
Then you dropped the bombshell.

That's a piss take, the Rangers are 5 year old or some shite.

Boooooooooooooooo
 
strongly against this shite and would guess most fans of non old firm clubs are too, be no surprise if it goes ahead given the collection of tools who run the game.
 
I’m not against colt teams, as it happens, but not necessarily the way it’s done elsewhere, and certainly not with a list of criteria that only one club can realistically meet, with the rules bent to ensure another club can just about manage. But if it’s going to be done, there needs to be a bigger shake up than ditching the Development League in order to reinstate the Reserve League (the current plan); and it needs to be done with specific and credible goals that benefit the wider game in Scotland.

For example, smaller clubs below the Championship level benefit hugely from big-club visits. Because that’s obviously true, it becomes a no-brainer for those clubs to support the policy because it’ll increase their cash flow at a time where there isn’t a lot of it around. That generally means that they’ll support whatever the Old Firm suggest because they’ll benefit from it in the short term that modern businesses deal in.

But, for me, the Scottish game should be built on three things:

- Value for money for the average supporter.
- A high level of entertainment and competition.
- The development of national team performance.

I think most of us would agree that these three things aren’t being met as things stand, and squirting Celtic and ‘Rangers’ colt teams into League Two does nothing to better the situation. What it does do, is ensure that the parent clubs can get their youngsters into competitive matches without having to loan them out; and because of the financial clout of said parent clubs, they can effectively strangle development elsewhere by hoovering up young talent that it now has a reason to retain.

To put it simply, it’s an ugly way of ensuring that two clubs get a hold of all the best young players. And while that’s bad enough, the knock-on effect is even more terrifying because a lot of smaller clubs develop players to sell as an economic strategy that they survive on.

Project Brave, if you’ve read it, is a shocking indictment of where our national game really stands and highlights clearly why the SFA and SPFL simply isn’t fit for purpose.

It’s why people like me, despite loving their clubs, have painfully decided to never return to a Scottish ground, especially when the club you love seems complicit in the ruse.
 
Zellviren said:
I’m not against colt teams, as it happens, but not necessarily the way it’s done elsewhere, and certainly not with a list of criteria that only one club can realistically meet, with the rules bent to ensure another club can just about manage. But if it’s going to be done, there needs to be a bigger shake up than ditching the Development League in order to reinstate the Reserve League (the current plan); and it needs to be done with specific and credible goals that benefit the wider game in Scotland.

For example, smaller clubs below the Championship level benefit hugely from big-club visits. Because that’s obviously true, it becomes a no-brainer for those clubs to support the policy because it’ll increase their cash flow at a time where there isn’t a lot of it around. That generally means that they’ll support whatever the Old Firm suggest because they’ll benefit from it in the short term that modern businesses deal in.

But, for me, the Scottish game should be built on three things:

- Value for money for the average supporter.
- A high level of entertainment and competition.
- The development of national team performance.

I think most of us would agree that these three things aren’t being met as things stand, and squirting Celtic and ‘Rangers’ colt teams into League Two does nothing to better the situation. What it does do, is ensure that the parent clubs can get their youngsters into competitive matches without having to loan them out; and because of the financial clout of said parent clubs, they can effectively strangle development elsewhere by hoovering up young talent that it now has a reason to retain.

To put it simply, it’s an ugly way of ensuring that two clubs get a hold of all the best young players. And while that’s bad enough, the knock-on effect is even more terrifying because a lot of smaller clubs develop players to sell as an economic strategy that they survive on.

Project Brave, if you’ve read it, is a shocking indictment of where our national game really stands and highlights clearly why the SFA and SPFL simply isn’t fit for purpose.

It’s why people like me, despite loving their clubs, have painfully decided to never return to a Scottish ground, especially when the club you love seems complicit in the ruse.
Click to expand...

Precisely. I`m not against the idea of colt teams in principle. It works in other countries but the way it is trying to be implemented here is to the total benefit of two clubs only and, as you say, being twisted to aid a club who cant afford it. The whole thing stinks of collusion and corruption......not for the first time.

Forty clubs are now little more than a convenient vehicle to provide two clubs with a platform to success and money. They dont even try to hide it any more.
 
Has this not been on the cards for a while and all clubs were to be invited to put in a colt team. I thought the challenge cup was a tester for this to see if it was going to be possible or worthwhile. Not heard anything for a while and how it has been changed to only 2 clubs being able to enter.
 
There'll be TV money behind this. Another chance to milk the sectarian bile for all it's worth. Cannie see the Scottish government or Police Scotland being over the moon about it either just when violent crime is decreasing.
Apart from that, any means by which thae cheating skint wankers of the 'big hoose' extend their existence is an absolute no go.
 
Fritz said:
Forty clubs are now little more than a convenient vehicle to provide two clubs with a platform to success and money. They dont even try to hide it any more.
Click to expand...
Sadly, too much apathy has kicked in for Scottish football supporters. The reality is that, of course, we should be up in arms about it - but the whole thing is reported as if it's great, and most won't consider the implications.

EastMeetsWest said:
Not heard anything for a while and how it has been changed to only 2 clubs being able to enter.
Click to expand...
No, but only Celtic and 'Rangers' were able to get a team ready in time for the 'trial'.

The reason people are saying it's only for those two, is because the criteria can only realistically be met by them. The SFA know this, so they can effectively set it up for the benefit of the only two clubs they care about, but argue that they're being perfectly fair to everyone else. It stinks.

[MENTION=4709]Beagle[/MENTION] has the right signature.

The game's rigged.
 
Celtic and Rangers colt teams set to play in SPFL as early as next season - Daily Record
 
Zellviren said:
Sadly, too much apathy has kicked in for Scottish football supporters. The reality is that, of course, we should be up in arms about it - but the whole thing is reported as if it's great, and most won't consider the implications.


No, but only Celtic and 'Rangers' were able to get a team ready in time for the 'trial'.

The reason people are saying it's only for those two, is because the criteria can only realistically be met by them. The SFA know this, so they can effectively set it up for the benefit of the only two clubs they care about, but argue that they're being perfectly fair to everyone else. It stinks.

@Beagle has the right signature.

The game's rigged.
Click to expand...

Do you know if any reason Hibs can't get a team together for it, our development squad is up there or is it financial constraints?

Did you ever get that Skype conference call with fans reps?
 
can our fans reps let us know if our club was complicit in this blatant promotion o' the bigot brothers. cynical i know but could this be an insurance they have one foot in scottish football before a concerted push tae leave us. fuck them
 
They can't be allowed to just appear in the middle of the complete league system.
Fuck them.

I demand Hibs do everything in their power to block them doing this.
By all means let them join the system, but not from anywhere other than where the rest are expected.



Scottish football, honestly, bloody joke
 
EastMeetsWest said:
Do you know if any reason Hibs can't get a team together for it, our development squad is up there or is it financial constraints?
Click to expand...
I don’t know, bud. My suspicion is that because it’s effectively a complete running order that requires full funding for matchday operations, it’s a pretty big ask for clubs that don’t have 60,000 coming in the gate every second week, or millions from Champions League participation. We also need to come up with a stadium that meets the standards of the league we intend to play in, which is an additional cost that is hard for teams other than Celtic to meet. I imagine using Easter Road is impossible as it means potential fixture clashing.

Even if it didn’t, giving the pitch such a hammering is unlikely to be good for anyone.

Ultimately, you need to field a full second team that can’t get any higher than League One and that you don’t benefit financially from in league position prize money (I’m not sure about the Irn-Bru Cup, or whatever it’s called these days).

As for your second question, I’ve had a preliminary chat with [MENTION=16774]traceyhibs[/MENTION] on Skype. Her, Frank and myself should have our proper chat later this week as Frank’s been out of country.
 
Hi

We have an Academy Board Meeting on Thursday afternoon so we will bring this up then.

Thanks

Tracey


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Zellviren said:
I don’t know, bud. My suspicion is that because it’s effectively a complete running order that requires full funding for matchday operations, it’s a pretty big ask for clubs that don’t have 60,000 coming in the gate every second week, or millions from Champions League participation. We also need to come up with a stadium that meets the standards of the league we intend to play in, which is an additional cost that is hard for teams other than Celtic to meet. I imagine using Easter Road is impossible as it means potential fixture clashing.

Even if it didn’t, giving the pitch such a hammering is unlikely to be good for anyone.

Ultimately, you need to field a full second team that can’t get any higher than League One and that you don’t benefit financially from in league position prize money (I’m not sure about the Irn-Bru Cup, or whatever it’s called these days).

As for your second question, I’ve had a preliminary chat with @traceyhibs on Skype. Her, Frank and myself should have our proper chat later this week as Frank’s been out of country.
Click to expand...

I really thought it was a cracking idea when 1st heard about it, had no idea of the strain it put on the majority of clubs to participate. Cheers for info.
 
EastMeetsWest said:
I really thought it was a cracking idea when 1st heard about it, had no idea of the strain it put on the majority of clubs to participate. Cheers for info.
Click to expand...
No probs.

Just quickly, though:

My information, so far, is only as good as my sources... Which is Scottish print and broadcast media. Discriminate with care. The hard part is that the Project Brave official documentation, which this is a part of, isn't easy to source or keep current with.

Possibly by design.
 
Zellviren said:
No probs.

Just quickly, though:

My information, so far, is only as good as my sources... Which is Scottish print and broadcast media. Discriminate with care. The hard part is that the Project Brave official documentation, which this is a part of, isn't easy to source or keep current with.

Possibly by design.
Click to expand...


It definitely does look contrived to suit that 2's youth system and progression of players unable to break into the 1st team.
 
Zellviren said:
We also need to come up with a stadium that meets the standards of the league we intend to play in, which is an additional cost that is hard for teams other than Celtic to meet. I imagine using Easter Road is impossible as it means potential fixture clashing.

Even if it didn’t, giving the pitch such a hammering is unlikely to be good for anyone.
Click to expand...
Did I not read somewhere that those 2 colts teams will play all their games away and won't have any home fixtures?


Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk
 
Realistically though.
We could easily play our home games, if any, at east mains.

We're supposed to be starting at the very bottom, so I'm sure that's more than acceptable for a bottom tier Scottish game.

Financially we're already paying these players and it should only be a reserve team for us, not like those 2 who will sign players to be colts.

And if someone else is mentioning them playing all there games away from home.....

Even if we aren't pursuing having a team, we should be putting a stop to them walking into league one or league 2

Bad enough Hunco got to do it with their full-time team.
 
Murky said:
Did I not read somewhere that those 2 colts teams will play all their games away and won't have any home fixtures?
Click to expand...
It's one of the ideas being mooted prior to implementation. Again, it's something that lower league teams will vote for; they get a thousand smellies and zombies visiting them, at no extra cost.

Hammi said:
Realistically though.
We could easily play our home games, if any, at east mains.

We're supposed to be starting at the very bottom, so I'm sure that's more than acceptable for a bottom tier Scottish game.

Financially we're already paying these players and it should only be a reserve team for us, not like those 2 who will sign players to be colts.

And if someone else is mentioning them playing all there games away from home.....

Even if we aren't pursuing having a team, we should be putting a stop to them walking into league one or league 2

Bad enough Hunco got to do it with their full-time team.
Click to expand...
Hibs are, as it happens, one of the few clubs without too much of a jump to make in order to make it work. I doubt East Mains is good enough for League Two, but I'd need to check exactly what the criteria is.

For me, the key point is your last one. Whether or not it's a 'trial', neither side should be able to jump right into League Two - they should start at the bottom of the pyramid. My suspicion is that it'd be done because they both couldn't be promoted from the Lowland League in the first year.

And to be fair, it's the Lowland League that I arguably feel sorriest for. If Celtic, 'Rangers', Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen were to field colt teams, then the Lowland League would technically see four years of added competition for a place in League Two.

To be clear, though, here's why I think it stinks:

There are eight clubs that have been allocated "Elite" status in accordance with their academies and development strategies. What that's saying is that those clubs have training and development facilities that meet a number of criteria that will see them more heavily supported from the SFA. So why, oh why, aren't those academies invited to field colt teams with more realistic criteria in order to play up to League One? That'd mean that Aberdeen, Celtic, Hamilton, Hearts, Hibs, Kilmarnock, Motherwell and 'Rangers' would all see an invitation to join, and the criteria for an invitation is simply to meet the "Elite" academy criteria. At that point, you're pretty much guaranteed a colt team spot if you want it.

That'd be fairer, more equitable, clearer for aspirational clubs, and fairer for the lower rungs of our game.

But, no.

A two-year trial is preferred, giving the Old Firm a two-year pass for their kids to play competitive football while other clubs take the risk of playing their youngsters in the top tier, or hoping they can find a loan deal that's inferior in most every way.

It's bollocks.

Also, don’t forget, that the new SFA-approved pyramid structure has a level 6 that’s BELOW the Lowland League. So, realistically, colt teams should be expected to start off in either the East of Scotland League, or the South of Scotland League (the feeder into the Highland League isn’t accredited yet). In the case of Celtic and ‘Rangers’, that’d mean the following:

- One of them wins the South of Scotland League, and needs to win a playoff against the East of Scotland League winners to get into the Lowland League.
- That team then wins the Lowland League, and needs to win two playoffs; against the Highland League winners, then the bottom team in League Two.
- That team then needs to win League Two, or get through the playoff gauntlet that finishes in a playoff against the bottom team in League One.

Clearly, that’d take quite a lot of time because only one of them could do it each year. And the fact that it’s a team of laddies means that it’s not a given that they’ll be winning playoffs; particularly when the “big clubs” can’t simply spend their way past the opposition, as ‘Rangers’ have done since 2012.

I’m not going to go into junior or amateur football because there’s no point. But putting Celtic and ‘Rangers’ colt teams straight in at League Two is a fucking affront to every club that’s below them on the senior pyramid.
 
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