12bn worth of cuts to public services

[Jack]

Any thoughts or ideas where these might come from?

The Boy David was very quiet about the details but 'documents' are seemingly being leaked ...

The documents, which have been disowned by the Conservatives, suggest the following measures:

*Restricting the carers allowance to those eligible for universal credit. The documents suggest that about 40 per cent of claimants would lose out saving the Government 1bn a year.

*Taxing disability benefits such as the disability living allowance, personal independence payments and attendance allowance (for over-65s who have personal care needs), saving 1.5bn a year.

[That sounds more than a little bit scary and is only 2.5bn]

*Introducing regional benefits caps. The 23,000 total benefit limit would vary in different parts of the country with Londoners, for instance, receiving the top amount due to the higher cost of living.

I'm a bit surprised London is getting a weighting, surely a great opportunity to get rid of the oiks and plebs back to their ghettos up norff.

 

[1 Mcnamara]

Any thoughts or ideas where these might come from?

The Boy David was very quiet about the details but 'documents' are seemingly being leaked ...

The documents, which have been disowned by the Conservatives, suggest the following measures:

*Restricting the carers allowance to those eligible for universal credit. The documents suggest that about 40 per cent of claimants would lose out saving the Government 1bn a year.

*Taxing disability benefits such as the disability living allowance, personal independence payments and attendance allowance (for over-65s who have personal care needs), saving 1.5bn a year.

[That sounds more than a little bit scary and is only 2.5bn]


*Introducing regional benefits caps. The 23,000 total benefit limit would vary in different parts of the country with Londoners, for instance, receiving the top amount due to the higher cost of living.

I'm a bit surprised London is getting a weighting, surely a great opportunity to get rid of the oiks and plebs back to their ghettos up norff.

Wherever they get them from it is going to be utterly depressing.
I fear hugely for the NHS
These bombs you see, don't pay for themselves.

But we are better together

 

[Smurf]

Wherever they get them from it is going to be utterly depressing.
I fear hugely for the NHS
These bombs you see, don't pay for themselves.

But we are better together

The Tories promised 8 Billion extra for the NHS. To not deliver on that would be politically toxic. They will. Why though is NHS spending in England rising faster than it is in devolved SNP controlled Scotland?

 

[southfieldhibby]

The Tories promised 8 Billion extra for the NHS. To not deliver on that would be politically toxic. They will. Why though is NHS spending in England rising faster than it is in devolved SNP controlled Scotland?

Is it though? Not sure that's accurate.

 

[Smurf]

Is it though? Not sure that's accurate.

My source is Shirley Williams...

 

[1 Mcnamara]

The Tories promised 8 Billion extra for the NHS. To not deliver on that would be politically toxic. They will. Why though is NHS spending in England rising faster than it is in devolved SNP controlled Scotland?

I don't know. Maybe they have a bigger population, maybe they have a bigger budget. I would imagine their spending is higher in all departments. It's eh, kinda the reason we wanted out and start afresh.

 

[southfieldhibby]

My source is Shirley Williams...

I'm looking for slightly better sources than an 85 year old ex politician with a serious agenda against The SNP.

The reason I query this, is because I read somewhere that the figure was misleading and where I read it was a surprise, was either Massie or Cochrane that dismissed it.

 

[Jack]

I'm sick [sic] of debunking NHS myths, so here's a quote i.e. its not just me saying it!

This interactive chart shows health spending per person in each of the UK countries between 2004/05 and 2010/11. This is consistently lowest in England. In 2010/11 spending in Northern Ireland and Scotland was over 200 per person, or 10 per cent higher than in England.

The nominal data comes from HM Treasurys Public Expenditure Statistical Analysis (July 2012) . Data has been adjusted to 2011/12 prices using the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) deflator from HM Treasury. Figures have not been adjusted to take account of the health status of the four populations.

Health care spending per person in the UK | The Nuffield Trust

To be fair I thought it was around 450 more in Scotland so maybe England is catching up from being consistently in last place.

Anyway as I've said before it not about how it's spent, this difference between our two countries isn't that much. In NHS terms probably half the cost of a single visit to A&E each.

No one in their right mind would want the USA model where the spend, any way it's measured, is astronomical in comparison to every other country in the world.

 

[southfieldhibby]

I'm sick [sic] of debunking NHS myths, so here's a quote i.e. its not just me saying it!

This interactive chart shows health spending per person in each of the UK countries between 2004/05 and 2010/11. This is consistently lowest in England. In 2010/11 spending in Northern Ireland and Scotland was over 200 per person, or 10 per cent higher than in England.

The nominal data comes from HM Treasurys Public Expenditure Statistical Analysis (July 2012) . Data has been adjusted to 2011/12 prices using the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) deflator from HM Treasury. Figures have not been adjusted to take account of the health status of the four populations.

Health care spending per person in the UK | The Nuffield Trust

To be fair I thought it was around 450 more in Scotland so maybe England is catching up from being consistently in last place.

Anyway as I've said before it not about how it's spent, this difference between our two countries isn't that much. In NHS terms probably half the cost of a single visit to A&E each.

No one in their right mind would want the USA model where the spend, any way it's measured, is astronomical in comparison to every other country in the world.

I was gonna tag you because I knew you would know. Good work. So we can confidently say that the myth peddled by Smurf, Williams, Hague etc is wrong?

 

[Jack]

I was gonna tag you because I knew you would know. Good work. So we can confidently say that the myth peddled by Smurf, Williams, Hague etc is wrong?

To be fair I knew it off by heart when I was working but didn't have the figure to hand.

 

[southfieldhibby]

To be fair I knew it off by heart when I was working but didn't have the figure to hand.

Indeed.But to clarify, in your learned opinion, [MENTION=2693]Smurf[/MENTION] was wrong?

 

[Jack]

Indeed.But to clarify, in your learned opinion, [MENTION=2693]Smurf[/MENTION] was wrong?

In the interests of Bounce harmony [MENTION=2693]Smurf[/MENTION] was misled by Shirley Williams

 

[Smurf]

I'm sick [sic] of debunking NHS myths, so here's a quote i.e. its not just me saying it!

This interactive chart shows health spending per person in each of the UK countries between 2004/05 and 2010/11. This is consistently lowest in England. In 2010/11 spending in Northern Ireland and Scotland was over 200 per person, or 10 per cent higher than in England.

The nominal data comes from HM Treasurys Public Expenditure Statistical Analysis (July 2012) . Data has been adjusted to 2011/12 prices using the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) deflator from HM Treasury. Figures have not been adjusted to take account of the health status of the four populations.

Health care spending per person in the UK | The Nuffield Trust

To be fair I thought it was around 450 more in Scotland so maybe England is catching up from being consistently in last place.

Anyway as I've said before it not about how it's spent, this difference between our two countries isn't that much. In NHS terms probably half the cost of a single visit to A&E each.

No one in their right mind would want the USA model where the spend, any way it's measured, is astronomical in comparison to every other country in the world.

We KNOW because of the Barnett formula that you want to end that health spending per head of the population in Scotland is greater than England. Not sure of anyone disputing that?

The point is that in the last five years under the coalition Westminster Government health spending increased greater per head of the population in England than it did in Scotland.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm looking for slightly better sources than an 85 year old ex politician with a serious agenda against The SNP.

The reason I query this, is because I read somewhere that the figure was misleading and where I read it was a surprise, was either Massie or Cochrane that dismissed it.

I said health spending was rising faster in England than it is in Scotland. I stand by that and shall try and get confirmation of that...

 

[southfieldhibby]

I said health spending was rising faster in England than it is in Scotland. I stand by that and shall try and get confirmation of that...

OK, that's a pretty general statement too. This faster rising spending, does it stay in the NHS or go to private firms?

 

[Jack]

We KNOW because of the Barnett formula that you want to end that health spending per head of the population in Scotland is greater than England. Not sure of anyone disputing that?

The point is that in the last five years under the coalition Westminster Government health spending increased greater per head of the population in England than it did in Scotland.

- - - Updated - - -



I said health spending was rising faster in England than it is in Scotland. I stand by that and shall try and get confirmation of that...

Fair enough, although I've never been here or there on the Barnett formula other than explaining the consequences of spend in England going up or down.

I suppose peace could break out if it could be agreed that for England to match Scotlands spend per head of population they've had to proportionately increase spending over the last 5 years ... and its looks as though it may be around another 5 years before they catch up. So yes, spending increased greater per head of the population in England than it did in Scotland ... but Scotland is still spending more.

As I said earlier it doesn't amount to a significant difference, not when its costing billions, and for those purists amongst us the NHS is not about cash but about the health of the nation (UK).