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Plasticman

Plasticman

Private Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Jim Spence is saying on twitter that they are going with reconstruction to 12 / 12 - 8 8 8 next season - stinks I think
 
This is the way they hope to get Newco back in Top Lge asap

this was agreed ages ago (behind closed doors) as it is in the newco share book that due to re-construction we will gain our place in SPL quicker
 
dode1875 said:
This is the way they hope to get Newco back in Top Lge asap

this was agreed ages ago (behind closed doors) as it is in the newco share book that due to re-construction we will gain our place in SPL quicker
Click to expand...

I just know that is going to happen, but I am hoping it doesn't as the top two from div 2 deserve to be in the set up long before the zombies
 
I think season 14/15 is when they are talking of bringing this set up in. Them hun fucks will be in div 1 by then anyways.

Edit: I'm totally against this set up. What a crock of shite. Get of to a bad start, barry!
 
DM Hibs said:
I think season 14/15 is when they are talking of bringing this set up in. Them hun fucks will be in div 1 by then anyways.

Edit: I'm totally against this set up. What a crock of shite. Get of to a bad start, barry!
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20920482

longmuir thinks otherwise

"There is still a lot of work to go," added Longmuir. "If we can get full agreement then there is no reason why we couldn't make a change before the start of next season."

ps I hate the idea as well with or without hunco
 
stumac said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20920482

longmuir thinks otherwise

"There is still a lot of work to go," added Longmuir. "If we can get full agreement then there is no reason why we couldn't make a change before the start of next season."

ps I hate the idea as well with or without hunco
Click to expand...

" Scottish Football League chief David Longmuir admits the Scottish Premier League's proposed league structure of 12-12-18 may well transpire. "


So Longmuir seems to have abandoned his own organisations plan and is now behind the SPL proposal. Should come as no surprise given that this is the same David Longmuir who colluded with the SFA and SPL in trying to bribe and threaten his own member clubs into parachuting Zombie FC into the 1st Division. I wonder what he`s been promised? Vice Presidency maybe?
 
I have no problem using the rangers situation to speed up much needed league re construction and spreading of the wealth.

But this doesn't seem like an improvement and we still have 11/1 SPL voting....sort out voting first then take time to really come up with a joined up solution....why not increase league size? Spartans, gala fairydean etc....
 
It should be a bigger top flight in my opinion. I think most fans agree, however, we don't seem to matter. Ergo, this ballochs plan.
 
Why was the league reformed with only 10 teams? Why did they change from the 16 team leagues in the first place?


12-12 with intersecting games is what I thought it was going to be but 12 for a top flight is a joke. I get the feeling that the reform will benefit the current top teams (including Rangers) more than the rest.
 
Heard it on radio Scotland and was absolutely disgusted by the way the sycophantic BBC hacks were backing it, no matter what we fans say or do the authorities and Meedja think they know better. Year on year attendances in top flight clubs drop due to lack of competition, poor quality and high prices, just when there is a glimmer of hope for other clubs in the absence of Sevco, these guys come up with a proposal that will make no difference whatsoever exept to bring the Zombies into the league early. :pullhair:
 
O'Driscoll said:
Heard it on radio Scotland and was absolutely disgusted by the way the sycophantic BBC hacks were backing it, no matter what we fans say or do the authorities and Meedja think they know better. Year on year attendances in top flight clubs drop due to lack of competition, poor quality and high prices, just when there is a glimmer of hope for other clubs in the absence of Sevco, these guys come up with a proposal that will make no difference whatsoever exept to bring the Zombies into the league early. :pullhair:
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I agree with all that, but add the biggest factor for the game going losing interest and backwards.....

Boredom, playing teams 4 times a season is fuvkin boring and everyone is sick of it, where is the excitement that you could possibly play teams 6 times in a season.
When the fact every team just cancels each other out, bringing major defensive and a lack of creativity a major factor in our game going backwards at an alarming rate.
But looking after the bigots is more important.
Long term, opening up the league and playing each other twice may cost a bit money to start, but the game as a whole would prosper and that would mean more money coming in.
The game and the clowns running it can only see it in the bigots eyes.
Nothing will ever change.
Fat Waldo even said the old firm should get most of the money as it helps them in Europe, and not one single journo or puppet that runs the game disputed this.....
 
hattrick baker said:
I agree with all that, but add the biggest factor for the game going losing interest and backwards.....

Boredom, playing teams 4 times a season is fuvkin boring and everyone is sick of it, where is the excitement that you could possibly play teams 6 times in a season.
When the fact every team just cancels each other out, bringing major defensive and a lack of creativity a major factor in our game going backwards at an alarming rate.
But looking after the bigots is more important.
Long term, opening up the league and playing each other twice may cost a bit money to start, but the game as a whole would prosper and that would mean more money coming in.
The game and the clowns running it can only see it in the bigots eyes.
Nothing will ever change.
Fat Waldo even said the old firm should get most of the money as it helps them in Europe, and not one single journo or puppet that runs the game disputed this.....
Click to expand...

The pricing of the game is now so artificially high that our chairmen will not take the risk of lowering admission prices for fear of not recuperating that revenue, so there's no chance they'll take a risk on losing the chance of a couple of visits from the OF.

The whole league set up prospers two clubs and barely keeps the others alive, and staying alive is the only goal of all but two chairmen in Scottish football.

It's fucked.
 
Carluke_Hibee said:
The pricing of the game is now so artificially high that our chairmen will not take the risk of lowering admission prices for fear of not recuperating that revenue, so there's no chance they'll take a risk on losing the chance of a couple of visits from the OF.

The whole league set up prospers two clubs and barely keeps the others alive, and staying alive is the only goal of all but two chairmen in Scottish football.

It's fucked.
Click to expand...

Sorry to say it, but you are spot on
 
hattrick baker said:
Sorry to say it, but you are spot on
Click to expand...

I'm just in conversation with Dons fans asking why they're backing the 10-2 or 11/1 or whatever the fuck it is voting structure, and they're telling me it's to keep the likes of Petrie and the other SPL "muppets" from voting The Hun back in early.
 
Carluke_Hibee said:
I'm just in conversation with Dons fans asking why they're backing the 10-2 or 11/1 or whatever the fuck it is voting structure, and they're telling me it's to keep the likes of Petrie and the other SPL "muppets" from voting The Hun back in early.
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Bollocks.
The sheep were adamant they were going to give Celtic a go and thought they were gauranteed 2nd spot.
Their greed is on a par with the bigots and they wanted all the extra candy that comes with it
Fuck them with their lies and spin
They are as bad as the bigots for greed

Also where was Milne when RP wa putting "integrity" forward?
Fucking nowhere.
 
hattrick baker said:
Bollocks.
The sheep were adamant they were going to give Celtic a go and thought they were gauranteed 2nd spot.
Their greed is on a par with the bigots and they wanted all the extra candy that comes with it
Fuck them with their lies and spin
They are as bad as the bigots for greed

Also where was Milne when RP wa putting "integrity" forward?
Fucking nowhere.
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I'll pass on your comments. :giggle:
 
hattrick baker said:
Twas my thinking;-)
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"A good Hibby just told me that yous are either deluded, full eh shite, or both.

The facts are that your chairman seen the pound signs for himself in the absence of Der Hun, and thought he would nip in there while the going was good and get that second place in the SPL.

For the greater good of the rest of us my fucking arse. Yous are bonkers if you believe that shit. "
 
Carluke_Hibee said:
"A good Hibby just told me that yous are either deluded, full eh shite, or both.

The facts are that your chairman seen the pound signs for himself in the absence of Der Hun, and thought he would nip in there while the going was good and get that second place in the SPL.

For the greater good of the rest of us my fucking arse. Yous are bonkers if you believe that shit. "
Click to expand...


:laff::laff:

I bet they are a tad raging at that.:giggle:

The way they were talking at the start of the season i firmly believe that is their intention.

As for RP "voting" them back in, what tools, He was the first man to speak out against the huns:red: where was there chairman through this:dunno:
Working out how the sheep can be the next greedy bassas thats where.
That is some pish they are spouting blaming fuckin up the vote on other chairmen, the very same chairman who was one of only a couple to actually have the baws to come out and state the case for der hun to get booted out.
I know sheep are a bit deaf, but obviously dumb as well...

You watch their attitude change if they look like they wont get second place
 
hattrick baker said:
I agree with all that, but add the biggest factor for the game going losing interest and backwards.....

Boredom, playing teams 4 times a season is fuvkin boring and everyone is sick of it, where is the excitement that you could possibly play teams 6 times in a season.
When the fact every team just cancels each other out, bringing major defensive and a lack of creativity a major factor in our game going backwards at an alarming rate.
But looking after the bigots is more important.
Long term, opening up the league and playing each other twice may cost a bit money to start, but the game as a whole would prosper and that would mean more money coming in.
The game and the clowns running it can only see it in the bigots eyes.
Nothing will ever change.
Fat Waldo even said the old firm should get most of the money as it helps them in Europe, and not one single journo or puppet that runs the game disputed this.....
Click to expand...

Everything wrong with Scottish football is right there. What he is saying, and what the journos are agreeing with, is that no club except the bigot sisters has any right to compete. Our league is for them to win and Europe is for them to play in.

....and the journos will still ask why the rest of us get emptied out of Euro competition to teams from Iceland and Latvia. :banger:

I have now come to the conclusion that nobody except the fans gives a fuck about our game. The games authorities and the medias only interest is them and our clubs are tolerated because, as long as the bigots are forced to play here, we are needed to get them to where the cash is.
 
Taken from " The Away End ".....6 January 2013 by Andrew Southwick

This puts it very well....

" No-one has said that reconstruction isn't needed for our game, but what certainly isn't needed is someone coming along and derailing the good things we do have going for us with a barmy 12-12-18 set-up, complete with a mid-season 8-8-8 split, that may well bring about the death of our game when we were just starting to think we had survived.There are three main things the majority of Scottish football fans want. An end to four games a season against the same opponent, fair promotion and relegation, and an all inclusive pyramid system. Sadly, all three wishes may never happen any time soon.

What is alarming, is that we appear to be going for a set-up that solves none of our current problems, and will likely create new ones.

Let's look ahead to the exciting possibilities that lie ahead under the 12-12-18 proposal. After 22 games, the top two leagues - the SPL and a newly created SPL2, would split into three mini-leagues of eight. The top and bottom divisions carry on as normal, facing each other twice more, while the middle division - comprising of the bottom four teams from the SPL and the top four from SPL2 - would begin at zero points and over the course of 14 games decide the promotion and relegation placings.

Still with us?

In the mind of Neil Doncaster and various SPL chairmen, it appears to be an exciting prospect. However let's consider how it changes things.

At the moment, in an albeit far from perfect set-up, St Mirren are just seven points off a potential European spot (4th place could have a Europa League place depending on who wins the Scottish Cup). However, they have played 22 games and are below the top eight, so in this new split they would now find their European hopes taken away, and instead they start from scratch and begin a relegation fight. Ross County have currently only played 20 games. They could potentially win both and move themselves into the top eight, and put themselves within five points of second, or just three from the potential European place in 4th. However, forget that, because all Dundee United need to do is take a point from their game in hand with Celtic and therefore Ross County, instead of making a historic bid for Europe, are instead fighting relegation. Imagine racking up win after win, knowing that these could be going towards finishing as high up the table as possible and getting a crack at Europe, but instead knowing they're simply helping you finish above teams you already finished above six months ago when you originally earned promotion.

It's exciting isn't it? That should get the crowds going up and increase the TV exposure.

So how does that help these clubs, or help the development of our game? Will the standard of football rise when you introduce fear rather than a carrot of success? Did we not say the ten team set-up put clubs off playing youth players, which was the reason for increasing the numbers in the first place?

Then of course there's Dundee. After a handful of games when it became evident they wouldn't finish above the bottom four, where's the motivation for them when the important games essentially don't begin until January? Why should Dundee fans descend on Dens Park for the first few months of the season when any points they are playing for, any wins they do manage to get, will simply be scrapped come the winter break?

What about Partick Thistle? Does this barmy new plan actually help Jackie McNamara's side gain promotion, because a potential four promotion spots have been opened up instead of one? Let's look again.

At the moment they sit in 3rd place in the first division, two points off the top in what is turning out to be a mouth watering three-way fight for the title between the Jags, Dunfermline and Morton. They have two games in hand though, against Cowdenbeath and Hamilton Accies. Win both and they're four points clear. Considering the split wouldn't happen until after 22 games, they could have another three fixtures to perhaps increase their lead a bit more. What gives them more chance of promotion? Continuing the season with a four point lead over their rivals, with what should be play-off spots below for those that miss out? Or, having all their points taken away and starting again? Rendering that 5-1 win earlier in the season against Dunfermline as meaningless. Making the last month or two nothing more than warm-up games once they'd essentially booked their place in the top four.

More importantly, now not only are they being asked to get themselves back above their first division rivals, but also ahead of at least one SPL team should they want promotion. Where is the fairness in that? No team should top their division and be denied a step up the ladder, and this isn't a step up the ladder, it's a mini-league where they'll be at a disadvantage from the off.

Take into account that when a side is promoted to the SPL, they usually need to strengthen in order to compete. Dundee didn't have enough time to do that this summer due to the Rangers/Newco situation, and look at how they have struggled. Your four first division teams facing off against the SPL quartet would also have just a matter of weeks to prepare for battle against four clubs with bigger budgets. As good and competitive as Thistle, Morton and Dunfermline have been at the top of the first division, can you see them finishing above Gunt, Ross County or St Mirren - their potential opponents based on current league placings? Can you even see them finishing above Dundee should they, in any normal season, have had a reasonable time to budget and adjust to the higher division? At best, you might see one team promoted. Rarely, you might see two. Often, you will see none.

So what problems have we solved? A fairer set-up? No. Extending the SPL to allow more teams the opportunity to get in? No.

A fairer distribution of money? Possibly, but you've taken away the carrot of European football for some and replaced it with a relegation fight - they'll likely suffer from lack of exposure, a struggle to keep players in the January transfer window, and a drop in crowds. Better youth development? Who will play youth players if they know they only have 22 games to safeguard the rest of the season, and then potentially just 14 games to stay in the SPL?

Cutting out playing the same teams too often? There might be a bit of variety for the teams in the middle split of eight teams, but that's about it. It could be said that anything is worth trying once. The thing is, this idea HAS been tried before, and seemingly didn't work.

The Austrian league gave it a go. And on Saturday UEFA general secretary David Taylor commented: "They tried it for six or seven years. It's not there any longer." He added: "Each country has to find its own solution but each country can learn from others' experiences.

"You don't have to repeat the mistakes of others."

And there you have it. It didn't work in Austria, so why are we giving it a go? Albert Einstein defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

Neil Doncaster, it's over to you. "
 
RE post above

Exactly.

The fact that no team might get promoted from the spl 2 and no team maybe not get relegeted from spl1 is a joke.

The "winner" of spl2 before split may not get promoted is just laughable, and the rest of spl2 teams in the 4 that join up with the spl1 bottom 4 may end up staying in the same league.
The bottom team in the spl1 may not get relegated:dunno:

What the fuck is going on in the heads of the absolute muppets that run our game:banger:

Even worse....the actual winner of the spl2 could be an spl1 side:banger::banger:
 
So, to summarise. We are going to reform from a 12 team top tier, to a 12 team top tear. This 12 team top tier will then become an 8 team top tier halfway through the season, and by this stage one side could be miles ahead, and this carry's on "as normal." 4 teams from the top tier can get relegated by playing against a team that just scraped into 4th in the second tier. But their might be no relegation either.

10 teams were refused because the chances of relegation increased (1/10 or 1/5 depending on how relegation was formatted).

Now, there is a 1/3 chance of getting relegated, yet we're all for this?

I need a sleep, my mind's blown.
 
Christ shed tears.

What we need is a sort of national "Frenchman" who will mobilise all Scottish footie supporters and see to it that the voice of the long-suffering raison d'tre of football, the fan, is heard and obeyed.

Obvious fly in the ointment is the amount of OF fans v other fans in SPL.

Maybe "all" we have to do is get rid of bigotry in the game/country? :doh
 
Guess what angle the Record`s taking on this reconstruction plan....

" Rangers could start out at bottom all over again if new Scottish league changes come into play next season
RANGERS could romp the Third Division and still end up in the bottom tier next season if a plan to reconstruct the Scottish game is given the go-ahead. "

He does of course mean " The " Rangers but i think i get the gist...:roll:

It doesn`t help Zombie FC.....is that it Keith?


http://www.Rag/sport/football/football-news/rangers-could-start-out-at-bottom-1522192
 
Can't seem...to think...brain..melting...GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH.

These guys really just simply ignore us. They quite demonstrably don't give a fuck what we think. Otherwise no sentient humans could sit in a room and come up with this shit. They seem to be actively pursuing making Scottish football a laughing stock, played in near-empty grounds. Because that's sure as shit the endgame here - none but the diehards will go, growth will be dead in the water forever.

RIP sanity.
 
The main reason for adopting this failed system appears to be that it gives the top teams 18 home fixtures. The sixteen team setup only gives 15 home games.

So that`s it, is it? Three fuckin games.....we are going to go with this ridiculous, previously attempted and abandoned in two other countries, farce of a reconstruction because of three games.....FFS, resurrect the divisional sections for the league cup to give guaranteed home fixtures to make up the shortfall...:banger:

You honestly have to question if anybody in charge......anybody at all, actually cares more about the game than they do about trying to make money. I know what i think....
 
Simple solution for them wanting to protect the 18 home games is make it a 20 team league!
 
our cousins in England have 20 teams in the top division and 24 in the next. I'm pretty sure that there are forces at play that would like to see a top teir of 12 or so but it doesn't happen why? because they respect their football.

It kind of reminds me of the old system we had, Scottish league division 1 and Scottish league division 2, which took decades to evolve, (what was so bad about that?) in those days our teams did well in Europe and attendances were better than now. Perhaps we should have just 2 leagues of 20 or so with promotion/relegation. There are those who argue that it would lead to meaningless mid table games but it seems to me that in England they have 'meaningless' games like for example Stoke v Reading after all not every game can include City, Utd or Chelsea, yet stadia across the country are well attended in both the Premiership and the championship. What would be so wrong with that.

I really hope our chairman stands up and says failed systems tried out in similar sized countries does not work and that the game should be structured in the interests of most clubs not just the greedy few.
 
Have you heard the knob from the new body (SPL SFA FBI CIA Matt Busby, what ever) saying that they need to educate the fans as to why they are idiots and dont understand why 8 8 8 is a great idea????

Also he said what fans want is more games but stupidly they dont realise that a 16 team league would mean less fixtures ... he is treating us like muppets, have we swallowed so much crap that they think they can say anything?
 
Plasticman said:
Have you heard the knob from the new body (SPL SFA FBI CIA Matt Busby, what ever) saying that they need to educate the fans as to why they are idiots and dont understand why 8 8 8 is a great idea????

Also he said what fans want is more games but stupidly they dont realise that a 16 team league would mean less fixtures ... he is treating us like muppets, have we swallowed so much crap that they think they can say anything?
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Yes. Spot on.
 
I have just listened to the alloa chairman on the radio, he makes some fantastic points.

he like the rest of us hates the idea of the 12 12 18/8 8 8 but he is prepared to go for if it means one governing body and an end to the spl/sfl civil war, proper distribution and one set of rules for all, fairer voting etc

and if the new system of 12 12 18 is not working it can be changed by the new one governing body

his big concern is for the teams in the 18 who are not challenging for promotion they have a full season of meaningless games, although he was sure higher placed top teams within the top tiers could use the bottom teams to loan out youth in bigger numbers than is being done now.

He nearly has me hopeful for the future:dunno:
 
stumac said:
I have just listened to the alloa chairman on the radio, he makes some fantastic points.

he like the rest of us hates the idea of the 12 12 18/8 8 8 but he is prepared to go for if it means one governing body and an end to the spl/sfl civil war, proper distribution and one set of rules for all, fairer voting etc

and if the new system of 12 12 18 is not working it can be changed by the new one governing body

his big concern is for the teams in the 18 who are not challenging for promotion they have a full season of meaningless games, although he was sure higher placed top teams within the top tiers could use the bottom teams to loan out youth in bigger numbers than is being done now.

He nearly has me hopeful for the future:dunno:
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See, this is the bit though that i don`t understand. He hates it....and he wont be alone. Most of them probably don`t like it either....but, like him they`ll vote for it for the reasons he states. Why the fuck cant they sit round a table and come up with something that they DO want. Something close to what we ALL want. Something that does all those good things he lists but also wont need fucking changing again when this utterly ludicrous nonsense goes tits-up.....as it will.
They said there would be armageddon without the huns but they worked round it, agreed new deals and solved problems. Give us the once at home and once away league we all want and solve any difficulties by finding solutions. But they will not even discuss the idea. Why not?

This ridiculous setup has been tried in TWO different countries and it has failed.....it`s pish, it doesnae fucking work.....AAaaaarrrgggghhhh.....just listen to us.
 
Fritz said:
See, this is the bit though that i don`t understand. He hates it....and he wont be alone. Most of them probably don`t like it either....but, like him they`ll vote for it for the reasons he states. Why the fuck cant they sit round a table and come up with something that they DO want. Something close to what we ALL want. Something that does all those good things he lists but also wont need fucking changing again when this utterly ludicrous nonsense goes tits-up.....as it will.
They said there would be armageddon without the huns but they worked round it, agreed new deals and solved problems. Give us the once at home and once away league we all want and solve any difficulties by finding solutions. But they will not even discuss the idea. Why not?

This ridiculous setup has been tried in TWO different countries and it has failed.....it`s pish, it doesnae fucking work.....AAaaaarrrgggghhhh.....just listen to us.
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I sort of took it between the lines, that although he didn't like the idea, he was willing to go for it as the spl are kinda insisting on it, but with one governing body with 48 members, they could gain the 75% vote easier to get change if needed, it kinda puts the power back into the sfl clubs hands:dunno: maybe just wishful thinking on my part but they would only need a 36 clubs to vote for change

that is if my math is right, if it is 37 it would be harder
 
I'd do it like this:-
SSPL (Sans Soap Premier League) consisting of celtc & sevco playing each other 19 times home & away.

Scottish League Division One
20 clubs playing each other once home & away with Champions League, Europa League spots up for grabs. Bottom 3 relegated. 17th into play-offs.

Scottish League Division Two
20 clubs playing each other once home & away. Top 3 promoted. 4th, 5th & 6th play off with 17th from 1st div for remaining 1st division place.
 
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