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Youth team/system

Hammi

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All the chat of it being mothballed. All the coaches away or leaving. Eddie May is a big loss to our club. I'm sure he's done good work, he's always stepped up when he's been asked to and he helped keep us together between managers this season.

I think this is quite a scary idea. It isn't something you can just reopen one day and everything goes back to normal.
How long would it take to get it moving again? And how do we decide we are even in a position to do so?
It will take so much time to replace everything we will lose if this happens.

I'm worried.
 
If we consider JC opinion as being valid then maybe we look at it as an opportunity to do things differently in future,it is a worry what is happening but money talks.

 
If we consider JC opinion as being valid then maybe we look at it as an opportunity to do things differently in future,it is a worry what is happening but money talks.


He says only Porteous has come through, he's wrong.
We've had other players who in different circumstances could've had a presence on the squad over the years.

I'd argue that recently we have been doing things differently and that the problems he's aware of were a few years outdated by now.
 
I'm not happy at all with the Youth Academy being put into cold storage for God knows how long. It's absolutely essential for a club like Hibs to have a a strong Youth set-up and we had very good people both scouting and coaching our young players. To see these coaches and likely the young players themselves being discarded is absolutely brutal. . I know the reasons as to why we are doing it, but it really is bad news.
Trying to be positive, it does give us a chance to have a look at things again during the intervening time and see where we can improve things. To be honest I don't put much credence into what John Collins is saying in the media today. I loved the guy as a player but I have always thought he lived in a bit of an imaginary world when it came to scottish football, so much so that when the realities of coaching and managing in Scotland hit him he ran for the hills and hasn't been back since. You can't produce something from nothing. If there is talent out there our scouts will find it and the club will nurture that talent. If there is not enough footballing talent out there, we just have to make do and work with what we have. I would argue that Hibs have brought through several excellent youngsters in the last few years despite what he says. The problem with them has been their attitude and desire and that has nothing to do with the quality of the youth academy and how it operates and everything to do with the lads themselves. We can only do so much.
I really hope we can get the Academy back up and running just as soon as it is possible to do so. Youth Academies are vital for scottish football.
 
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Maybe going down the route of Brentford and have a B team. Scrap the academy and pick up the best of the players who have been through the academy system at other clubs.....and were released obviously.

Brentford B - including Kane O’Connor the Scotland age groups captain who Hibs agreed to release - travel and play varied opposition in different countries rather than domestic league set up. Hibs already started similar by playing the likes of English opposition.C9441A30-3E43-4B54-88B1-9820481F1B6B.jpeg
 
Maybe go down the route of Brentford and have a B team. Scrap the academy and pick up the best of the players who have been through the academy system at other clubs.

Brentford B - including Kane O’Connor the Scotland age groups captain who Hibs agreed to release - travel and play varied opposition in different countries rather than domestic league set up. Hibs already started similar by playing the likes of English opposition.
I can see that happening with Hibs.
 
Maybe going down the route of Brentford and have a B team. Scrap the academy and pick up the best of the players who have been through the academy system at other clubs.....and were released obviously.

Brentford B - including Kane O’Connor the Scotland age groups captain who Hibs agreed to release - travel and play varied opposition in different countries rather than domestic league set up. Hibs already started similar by playing the likes of English opposition.

If we pick up players who have been through other academies then they'll likely be wanting to play first team football?
I agree with the way we recently started using the team though, gives them a chance to play stronger opposition and get them prepared for what forst team football feels like. It's definitely a step towards bridging that gap that a loan to a lower league club can't really give anymore imo
 
Yeah I was a bit disappointed too but what could Hibs do?

Football below the very upper levels have been halted with little sign as to when it can all get back to working, training, playing etc..

I haven't been following it too closely but I hope Hibs have said to all those involved coaching staff and players at all levels they'll all be welcomed back as soon as it practical.
 
I'm not happy at all with the Youth Academy being put into cold storage for God knows how long. It's absolutely essential for a club like Hibs to have a a strong Youth set-up and we had very good people both scouting and coaching our young players. To see these coaches and likely the young players themselves being discarded is absolutely brutal. . I know the reasons as to why we are doing it, but it really is bad news.
Trying to be positive, it does give us a chance to have a look at things again during the intervening time and see where we can improve things. To be honest I don't put much credence into what John Collins is saying in the media today. I loved the guy as a player but I have always thought he lived in a bit of an imaginary world when it came to scottish football, so much so that when the realities of coaching and managing in Scotland hit him he ran for the hills and hasn't been back since. You can't produce something from nothing. If there is talent out there our scouts will find it and the club will nurture that talent. If there is not enough footballing talent out there, we just have to make do and work with what we have. I would argue that Hibs have brought through several excellent youngsters in the last few years despite what he says. The problem with them has been their attitude and desire and that has nothing to do with the quality of the youth academy and how it operates and everything to do with the lads themselves. We can only do so much.
I really hope we can get the Academy back up and running just as soon as it is possible to do so. Youth Academies are vital for scottish football.

You really do write some of the most perceptive and interesting observations on all aspects of Hibs.✅

I just wish you would write in paragraphs.?
 
The academy has been shite for nigh on a decade. Produces next to nothing.
 
Being brutally honest the academy has been a complete failure. Have we produced one sellable asset from the academy since East Mains opened? Porteous looks to be the first.

A temporary shutdown and completely fresh restart isn’t the worst thing - a new set up, new ideas, new vision, clear plan of how we actually get players ready to play for our first team.

That said I feel real sympathy for the staff and players who are losing their jobs, and their opportunities to develop. Across the Scottish game there are going to be an awful lot of young players who’s chances of making it might be gone as a result of all this.
 
In an ideal world the Academy should produce quality young players ready to play first team football, progress and be sold on for big fees. Then there should be replacements ready again from the Academy to take their place. This has not been happening at least not often. Maybe the way ahead is to sign young players in the John McGinn mould.
 
I do feel the academy is very important at a club the size and stature of hibs.. However I echo other posters concerns about the lack of talent/sellable assets that have come through the ranks recently..
Hopefully Porto.. fraser Murray.. and gullan who are ruff diamonds can seize the opportunity that they will get with a trimmed squad and develop into quality spl players or better..
Side note... Does anyone know if any of the younger fringe lads have been kept on?
 
I’m sure this we go against the grain, but I’d rather we go back to the old school way of things. Have the laddies cleaning the boots and stands. So many ex players that come on the Si Ferry podcast talk about that actually helped them develop in to a player and toughen them up. Apart from Porto, all we’ve brought through are a bunch of soft nice boys that haven’t cut the mustard. Shaw, Harris and Stanton all come to mind.
 
I’m sure this we go against the grain, but I’d rather we go back to the old school way of things. Have the laddies cleaning the boots and stands. So many ex players that come on the Si Ferry podcast talk about that actually helped them develop in to a player and toughen them up. Apart from Porto, all we’ve brought through are a bunch of soft nice boys that haven’t cut the mustard. Shaw, Harris and Stanton all come to mind.

There has been a real lack of “characters” developed through the academy, no doubt about it. For me that mentality and self belief is just as important as ability when it comes to breaking into first team football.
 
There has been a real lack of “characters” developed through the academy, no doubt about it. For me that mentality and self belief is just as important as ability when it comes to breaking into first team football.

Definitely agree with that. I actually like the fact that Porteos has that "nasty" side about him. Not afraid to take one for the team. Granted it's not good clocking up a ton of red cards, but it's a good mentality.

I honestly wouldn't be apposed to having someone like Yogi running the youth side of things in the future. Better to have that sink or swim attitude figured out early. Playing "development" games in a nice cosy environment, doesn't do these lads any favors for when they visit places like Ibrox or the bus shelter.
 
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Definitely agree with that. I actually like the fact that Porteos has that "nasty" side about him. Not afraid to take one for the team. Granted it's not good clocking up a ton of red cards, but it's a good mentality.

I honestly wouldn't be apposed to having someone like Yogi running the youth side of things in the future. Better to have that sink or swim attitude figured out early. Playing "development" games in a nice cosy environment, doesn't do these lads any favors for when they visit places like Ibrox or the bus shelter.

I’m no sure about the Yogi part!! But agree with the sentiment.

As someone else mentioned replicating the Brentford B set up, which might have been where we were heading anyway, seems much more useful - get players used to travelling, playing against proper senior pros, in proper stadiums.
 
For all his faults surprised Yogi hasn’t got another job in football, overall record is alright and won a cup with Inverness ( which we should have won )
 
That’s what Falkirk did. Scrap the academy and spend the money on best released prospects from elsewhere.

It’s been a catastrophic failure it’s fair to say?

Maybe going down the route of Brentford and have a B team. Scrap the academy and pick up the best of the players who have been through the academy system at other clubs.....and were released obviously.

Brentford B - including Kane O’Connor the Scotland age groups captain who Hibs agreed to release - travel and play varied opposition in different countries rather than domestic league set up. Hibs already started similar by playing the likes of English opposition.View attachment 2814
 
I think Kenny Miller would do a great job with a youth system. Knows what it takes to make it as a player and probably one of the very few players that got the absolute maximum from his career through sheer hard work and dedication.
 
I think Kenny Miller would do a great job with a youth system. Knows what it takes to make it as a player and probably one of the very few players that got the absolute maximum from his career through sheer hard work and dedication.

Got a job with Newcastle Jets
 
I'm not sure the academy has been the whole problem. Porto aside, very few have been given the minutes to develop properly and have been thrown in as last minute panic subs.

The way we have transitioned players from academy to first team has been brutal.
 
Hearing this morning 5 of the young lads kept at club and given contracts while others not so lucky.
Gary O'connor boy Josh being the one they have high hopes for
 
I’m no sure about the Yogi part!! But agree with the sentiment.

As someone else mentioned replicating the Brentford B set up, which might have been where we were heading anyway, seems much more useful - get players used to travelling, playing against proper senior pros, in proper stadiums.
And I am definitely sure about that. When he was our manager he had one of the best squads of young players we had for a long time, and not only did he not give them a chance, he got rid of most of the youngsters that we would have been delighted to see break in to the first team. Maybe most of them wouldn't have made the step up, but they weren't given the chance.
 
I'm not sure the academy has been the whole problem. Porto aside, very few have been given the minutes to develop properly and have been thrown in as last minute panic subs.

The way we have transitioned players from academy to first team has been brutal.

But there must be a reason that successive managers don’t feel they can trust these young lads to handle playing first team football? For me Porto is the exception because he clearly has a bit of confidence and belief about him, while physically he’s also ready to cope with the demands.
 
And I am definitely sure about that. When he was our manager he had one of the best squads of young players we had for a long time, and not only did he not give them a chance, he got rid of most of the youngsters that we would have been delighted to see break in to the first team. Maybe most of them wouldn't have made the step up, but they weren't given the chance.

He wasn't exactly popular with the youngsters at Fawkirk when he was there either. I'm not sure bawling at them and flicking arses with a wet towel did much to develop them.

All 'allegedly' of course.
 
Do young players get it too easy now? Do
They still clean boots etc?
 
But there must be a reason that successive managers don’t feel they can trust these young lads to handle playing first team football? For me Porto is the exception because he clearly has a bit of confidence and belief about him, while physically he’s also ready to cope with the demands.

Job security? If you need to get results to keep your job then blooding a youngster who might take a dozen games to get going isn’t your priority.

Porteous rep jumped up hugely on the back of a win at ibrox. We were down to the bare bones and had to play him. He wouldn’t have played through choice of manager.
 
Job security? If you need to get results to keep your job then blooding a youngster who might take a dozen games to get going isn’t your priority.

Porteous rep jumped up hugely on the back of a win at ibrox. We were down to the bare bones and had to play him. He wouldn’t have played through choice of manager.

Job security certainly does play a part, but even then hardly any of them have looked remotely ready for first team football. There’s a failing before they get to that stage IMO - the only other recent academy player who plays regularly in the premiership is Scott Martin, before him Wotherspoon....

I disagree about Ibrox, the manager chose to play Porteous that day rather than a more experienced player out of position, as often happens.
 
The reason Hibs quit the SPFL Reserve League last year was because it was felt that the young players would benefit more from playing against seasoned pros either by going out on loan for the season to League 2 clubs, or by playing in arranged friendlies against English clubs like Brentford and Huddersfield.
Our best young players aged 18+ need to be playing first team football either in our first team, or in lower league first teams on loan. I'm hoping that the likes of Ben Stirling and Josh Campbell who both spent last season out on loan will be ready now to push for the Hibs first team especially now we have been made aware of how tight finances are going to be this year.
 
Job security? If you need to get results to keep your job then blooding a youngster who might take a dozen games to get going isn’t your priority.

Porteous rep jumped up hugely on the back of a win at ibrox. We were down to the bare bones and had to play him. He wouldn’t have played through choice of manager.
And what a game that was, @P&G!! A raw laddie? Nae chance!! Lewis at centre-half? Never!! Far too wee!! What a game!! What a performance from both of them!!
 
But there must be a reason that successive managers don’t feel they can trust these young lads to handle playing first team football?

Because they've been in charge of underperforming Hibs sides and were adverse to risk as a result?

For me Porto is the exception because he clearly has a bit of confidence and belief about him, while physically he’s also ready to cope with the demands.

I think he/we have been fortunate in that he got regular starts due to injuries and poor performances in that area of the park necessitating his inclusion.
 
Because they've been in charge of underperforming Hibs sides and were adverse to risk as a result?



I think he/we have been fortunate in that he got regular starts due to injuries and poor performances in that area of the park necessitating his inclusion.

Pretty much much every young player at every club gets their chance for the same reason - first team players suffering injuries or poor form.

The player has to be ready, like Porteous was, to grab the opportunity. We’ve not had many others to do that.
 
Pretty much much every young player at every club gets their chance for the same reason - first team players suffering injuries or poor form.

The player has to be ready, like Porteous was, to grab the opportunity. We’ve not had many others to do that.

That's what I'm saying though. I'd don't think others have been offered that chance. We've had a succession of managers stick with loans and duds while giving youth players ten minutes here or there when they have nothing left to lose.
 
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That's what I'm saying though. I'd don't think others have been offered that chance. We've had a succession of managers stick with loans and duds while giving youth players ten minutes here or there when they have nothing left to lose.

I think that’s an easy narrative that masks the failings of our player development system. We’ve loaned young players in from other clubs because they were viewed as better options that what we have in our academy. Some of these managers actually did give youth a chance despite the dire situation - Fenlon brought in Harris, even Butcher gave Cummings his chance.... so there’s more to it than simply saying shite managers didn’t play them, even though that is a factor.
 
Could also argue that very few if none at all went on to bigger or better things. Shaw couldn’t even get a game for Ross County
 
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I think we have a tendency as Hibs fans to be a bit unrealistic as to what the youth academy can actually achieve. I think this is partly due to the success we had in the Mowbray/Collins era when we had several top class youngsters all coming through at the club at the same time. This is extremely rare at any club. We were very fortunate at that time, and thankfully we made the most of that good fortune by producing an exciting young team with a very good manager, a third place finish in 2004/2005 giving us European football, and a trophy win in 2007. The club then went on to make a lot of money from their sales and the Training Centre amongst other things was then able to come to fruition.
Our youth academy was completely restructured in 2014, but the reality is that our youth academy will be doing well if it can bring through one, or at best two players a year, who will break through into the first team and stay there. It is immensely difficult for young players to make the step up from development team level football to first team football at a big club like Hibs in the top league in Scotland.

Many young players who look fantastic at development level just cannot deal with the huge step up to the first team when they are given the chance. Fraser Murray is the latest who is finding out how hard it is and how much work, dedication and sacrifice is required, however I still hold out big hopes for him to prove himself, he certainly has the ability that's for sure.

As I have said before the strongly rumoured but as yet unconfirmed temporary closure of the youth academy for the forseeable future should at least mean that IMO several of our best young players who have gone through the academy set-up over the last few years will be able to step up to the first team squad, and be given the chance to prove themselves. The closure can also have another positive for us, in that we can have another look at the way we develop young players and decide whether or not we can maybe change things and make the youth academy even more productive.
 
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Woop, good stuff.
 

Aw that’s not good, that won’t fit some people agenda
 

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