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Youth team/system

Purple & Green

Radge McRadge
Admin
I think Kenny Miller would do a great job with a youth system. Knows what it takes to make it as a player and probably one of the very few players that got the absolute maximum from his career through sheer hard work and dedication.
Got a job with Newcastle Jets
 

Two Headed Boy

Bounce Radge
I'm not sure the academy has been the whole problem. Porto aside, very few have been given the minutes to develop properly and have been thrown in as last minute panic subs.

The way we have transitioned players from academy to first team has been brutal.
 

sauzee 1875

Bounce Radge
Hearing this morning 5 of the young lads kept at club and given contracts while others not so lucky.
Gary O'connor boy Josh being the one they have high hopes for
 

WJC1848

Bounce Radge
I’m no sure about the Yogi part!! But agree with the sentiment.

As someone else mentioned replicating the Brentford B set up, which might have been where we were heading anyway, seems much more useful - get players used to travelling, playing against proper senior pros, in proper stadiums.
And I am definitely sure about that. When he was our manager he had one of the best squads of young players we had for a long time, and not only did he not give them a chance, he got rid of most of the youngsters that we would have been delighted to see break in to the first team. Maybe most of them wouldn't have made the step up, but they weren't given the chance.
 

HibeeZab

Admin
I'm not sure the academy has been the whole problem. Porto aside, very few have been given the minutes to develop properly and have been thrown in as last minute panic subs.

The way we have transitioned players from academy to first team has been brutal.
But there must be a reason that successive managers don’t feel they can trust these young lads to handle playing first team football? For me Porto is the exception because he clearly has a bit of confidence and belief about him, while physically he’s also ready to cope with the demands.
 

Sir Shrink

Quite a bit past it radge
Bounce Radge
And I am definitely sure about that. When he was our manager he had one of the best squads of young players we had for a long time, and not only did he not give them a chance, he got rid of most of the youngsters that we would have been delighted to see break in to the first team. Maybe most of them wouldn't have made the step up, but they weren't given the chance.
He wasn't exactly popular with the youngsters at Fawkirk when he was there either. I'm not sure bawling at them and flicking arses with a wet towel did much to develop them.

All 'allegedly' of course.
 

Purple & Green

Radge McRadge
Admin
But there must be a reason that successive managers don’t feel they can trust these young lads to handle playing first team football? For me Porto is the exception because he clearly has a bit of confidence and belief about him, while physically he’s also ready to cope with the demands.
Job security? If you need to get results to keep your job then blooding a youngster who might take a dozen games to get going isn’t your priority.

Porteous rep jumped up hugely on the back of a win at ibrox. We were down to the bare bones and had to play him. He wouldn’t have played through choice of manager.
 

HibeeZab

Admin
Job security? If you need to get results to keep your job then blooding a youngster who might take a dozen games to get going isn’t your priority.

Porteous rep jumped up hugely on the back of a win at ibrox. We were down to the bare bones and had to play him. He wouldn’t have played through choice of manager.
Job security certainly does play a part, but even then hardly any of them have looked remotely ready for first team football. There’s a failing before they get to that stage IMO - the only other recent academy player who plays regularly in the premiership is Scott Martin, before him Wotherspoon....

I disagree about Ibrox, the manager chose to play Porteous that day rather than a more experienced player out of position, as often happens.
 

Greenmachine

Bounce Radge
The reason Hibs quit the SPFL Reserve League last year was because it was felt that the young players would benefit more from playing against seasoned pros either by going out on loan for the season to League 2 clubs, or by playing in arranged friendlies against English clubs like Brentford and Huddersfield.
Our best young players aged 18+ need to be playing first team football either in our first team, or in lower league first teams on loan. I'm hoping that the likes of Ben Stirling and Josh Campbell who both spent last season out on loan will be ready now to push for the Hibs first team especially now we have been made aware of how tight finances are going to be this year.
 

WJC1848

Bounce Radge
Job security? If you need to get results to keep your job then blooding a youngster who might take a dozen games to get going isn’t your priority.

Porteous rep jumped up hugely on the back of a win at ibrox. We were down to the bare bones and had to play him. He wouldn’t have played through choice of manager.
And what a game that was, @P&G!! A raw laddie? Nae chance!! Lewis at centre-half? Never!! Far too wee!! What a game!! What a performance from both of them!!
 

Two Headed Boy

Bounce Radge
But there must be a reason that successive managers don’t feel they can trust these young lads to handle playing first team football?
Because they've been in charge of underperforming Hibs sides and were adverse to risk as a result?

For me Porto is the exception because he clearly has a bit of confidence and belief about him, while physically he’s also ready to cope with the demands.
I think he/we have been fortunate in that he got regular starts due to injuries and poor performances in that area of the park necessitating his inclusion.
 

HibeeZab

Admin
Because they've been in charge of underperforming Hibs sides and were adverse to risk as a result?



I think he/we have been fortunate in that he got regular starts due to injuries and poor performances in that area of the park necessitating his inclusion.
Pretty much much every young player at every club gets their chance for the same reason - first team players suffering injuries or poor form.

The player has to be ready, like Porteous was, to grab the opportunity. We’ve not had many others to do that.
 

Two Headed Boy

Bounce Radge
Pretty much much every young player at every club gets their chance for the same reason - first team players suffering injuries or poor form.

The player has to be ready, like Porteous was, to grab the opportunity. We’ve not had many others to do that.
That's what I'm saying though. I'd don't think others have been offered that chance. We've had a succession of managers stick with loans and duds while giving youth players ten minutes here or there when they have nothing left to lose.
 

HibeeZab

Admin
That's what I'm saying though. I'd don't think others have been offered that chance. We've had a succession of managers stick with loans and duds while giving youth players ten minutes here or there when they have nothing left to lose.
I think that’s an easy narrative that masks the failings of our player development system. We’ve loaned young players in from other clubs because they were viewed as better options that what we have in our academy. Some of these managers actually did give youth a chance despite the dire situation - Fenlon brought in Harris, even Butcher gave Cummings his chance.... so there’s more to it than simply saying shite managers didn’t play them, even though that is a factor.
 

Greenmachine

Bounce Radge
I think we have a tendency as Hibs fans to be a bit unrealistic as to what the youth academy can actually achieve. I think this is partly due to the success we had in the Mowbray/Collins era when we had several top class youngsters all coming through at the club at the same time. This is extremely rare at any club. We were very fortunate at that time, and thankfully we made the most of that good fortune by producing an exciting young team with a very good manager, a third place finish in 2004/2005 giving us European football, and a trophy win in 2007. The club then went on to make a lot of money from their sales and the Training Centre amongst other things was then able to come to fruition.
Our youth academy was completely restructured in 2014, but the reality is that our youth academy will be doing well if it can bring through one, or at best two players a year, who will break through into the first team and stay there. It is immensely difficult for young players to make the step up from development team level football to first team football at a big club like Hibs in the top league in Scotland.

Many young players who look fantastic at development level just cannot deal with the huge step up to the first team when they are given the chance. Fraser Murray is the latest who is finding out how hard it is and how much work, dedication and sacrifice is required, however I still hold out big hopes for him to prove himself, he certainly has the ability that's for sure.

As I have said before the strongly rumoured but as yet unconfirmed temporary closure of the youth academy for the forseeable future should at least mean that IMO several of our best young players who have gone through the academy set-up over the last few years will be able to step up to the first team squad, and be given the chance to prove themselves. The closure can also have another positive for us, in that we can have another look at the way we develop young players and decide whether or not we can maybe change things and make the youth academy even more productive.
 
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