Wrong direction

[NW]

In the last 6 months it feels like Hibs have regressed 5 years back to the days of Pat Fenlon. It certainly seems that the initial bounce from Leeann coming on board has gone and the feel good factor from 21/5/16 is being worn down. For the last few months communication from the club has disappeared unless it is selling tickets (when the system works) or murder mystery nights, I cannot recall the last piece with substance from our CEO whereas in the past few positive seasons she has been far more outgoing. It has been clear for sometime that our squad was light, yet we end this transfer window, 5 out, 5 in, 2 key players out for the season and without a head coach or an assistant head coach. All of our ins are effectively 4 month deals and I wouldn’t put any money of any of them being with us next season. I think that quite simply we are a mess and have gone back to what many would say is typical Hibs. I am not at all confident that our refreshed squad will make the top 6, thus reducing revenue, losing big home games and without a doubt hammering the season ticket sales for next season. So what has gone wrong? And why should we accept it? I had thought for a while that Neil Lennon would not stay past this coming summer and I also felt Leeann would move on too. Has Leeann been ground down by a board and owners that has in the main been the same for years and always appeared to lack any drive and real ambition. I would love to know what efforts have been made to seriously increase commercial revenue, we are in the capital city, one of the most famous and visited cities in the world, the majority of flights pass over the stadium. Also what attempts have been made to secure outside investment like other clubs have managed, Aberdeen, Hearts and Dundee Utd spring to mind. What do, Jones, Dunn, Langham and Houston bring to Hibs and surely a refresh is long overdue. Who hold the board to account? The last week or so feels like a right kick in the proverbial’s for the fans, legal issues aside the statement re Neil Lennon leaving was bizarre in the least and pretty much laughed at. Why cant the majority shareholder outline his plans for the club, , he is getting older and the fans are keen to know what his plans are for the future, but he wont say, yet he asks fans to contribute to buying a stake in the club without being fully open and transparent. I say fans but it seems we are nothing more than customers, a means to fund the ongoing routine. Who monitors the success of the recruitment team? Many would say it has been questionable in its success. Many say we lack ambition and many counter this by saying we can only spend what we have. Why must ambition solely be based on money? The club needs to be more inclusive, going back to the days and months after the cup win and getting a feel good factor back, as a club we are all better working together and being a tight unit, we have spent too long being the opposite and I fear we are moving back that way. We are Hibernian Fc, celebrate this, promote this and be brave, the last 2 ½ years have shown what we can get to if we are positive and united and focussing on getting a team that plays attractive and largely winning football and that we own the capital. The under the lights wins against Hearts seem an eternity ago but they were some of the best nights I can recall. The spirit of McGinn and Cummings have drained away and the ghost of nightmares past are drifting back. As we approach the appointment of a new head coach, the most important person at the club, let us make sure it is someone who gets Hibs, Stubbs did, Lennon did, Butcher didn’t, Calderwood didn’t. The difference it makes is huge. Also as we refresh the head coach, the board of directors need a refresh too. The fans have continued to play their part, can every member of the board honestly look in the mirror and say that they offer Hibs the best chance of moving forward. Ambition does require money, it also requires drive, bravery and a will to win, the new manager needs this and needs his employers to have exactly the same. Time to step up Hibs, the amount of income we could lose in the next 6 months is scary, go and find a way to replace it as yet again we have another long summer of rebuilding to get Hibs in the best place they can. The time is now. The fans demand it and are watching very closely.

 

[AG1337]

I understand some of your points particularly how it feels like we have regressed in many ways. To be fair I think there was always going to be a downturn in our fortunes at some point after the euphoria of SC and Championship success. In order to maintain and build on those heady days we would have had to keep McGinn and McGeough or at least replace with equal quality, that was always going to be a very tall order.
Other members of the team have gone and some have just struggled to maintain those levels in a weakened team.

Should Hibs have invested more which might have helped maintain momentum? They may have and it went belly up? I am not privvy to what goes on behind the scenes however we have never really been a club to spend outwith our means. certainly not in the last 20 years, Yes we have record ST holders but that money coupled with the sale of players may have offset what I would imagine to be significant and unplanned for losses incurred by three season in the Championship?

I think Leanne will be working within tight constraints regarding budget and wont gamble all her chips to finish 2nd at best. 3rd or 4th in the league is a reasonable/realistic target for half the SPL clubs outside Celtic and Rangers and we did fantastically well to challenge at the top all last season. I am fairly neutral when it comes to the board, in fact I have no interest in them, I certainly never think of them as the "root cause" of the team not playing well.

If we look at this season objectively it started really well in the league and three Euro ties. The wheels have only started to come off the last 4 months or so and in my opinion its no coincidence that Lennon seemed to start to lose interest and act erratically (even for his erratic standards), We have dropped silly points yet have competed with most of the top teams, the derby defeat came at a bad time and just added to the angst. Its been frustrating for lots of reasons but its far from doom and gloom. We still have a decent side and an excellent club infrastructure, I also think we have done pretty well in this transfer window which can hopefully consolidate our season. I am not sure if we will finish in the top six, I am optimistic and if we dont it will quite rightly be viewed as a failure.
For me the most important thing right now is steadying the ship by appointing a good manager who can start to plan for next season early. I am hopeful Hibs will know exactly who they want just like I am hopeful players will be getting lined up for next season.
I honestly dont think the progress we have made as a club has stopped or has been wasted, I just think we have hit a sticky spell most clubs go through and its very easy to look back and compare with the recent "good times".
On a personal level I have loved watching Hibs the last few seasons, its been so entertaining but as we all now nothing lasts forever, we also know supporting Hibs means we wont win silverware every season but that kinda adds to the attraction.
Nah, we are far removed from the Fenlon days, keep the faith.

 

[NW]

I agree that Lennys interest faded and that filtered all the way through club. Recruitment has been woeful and far too slow in my opinion. We could never match McGinn mcgeouch and Allan but we had long enough to play a new midfield. Likewise we have been and still are short upfront. Why? Who carries the can for recruitment?

Why has this been matched with a apparent downturn in overall club communications.

I don’t want us to overspend but other clubs with similar or smaller budgets manage to be more consistent. Why seem to yo yo.

I am just very frustrated that we feel
Like we are dropping back again and it doesn’t appear anyone is taking the responsibility and onus to reverse it.

Sorry ranting

 

[Hectorhib]

Take a look at the last of the SIMILAR THREADS below.....WHERE DID IT ALL GO WRONG.That was 10/ 04 /16

 

[Leithwalk]

In terms of communication,I can't help thinking that one big miss for us is Greig Mailer, who did a lot of the spadework in setting up ways for the club and supporters to interact, and kept up communications even at times when there was nothing specific to say - remember the Life With Hibs video? I'm sure I recall that when he left, his job was not directly replaced - there was a reallocation of responsibilities - and that consistent communication has been lost, which I'm sure is one factor in the less upbeat mood around the place

 

[Doc Shrink]

Good lad is Greig. Very helpful at Hibs.

 

[Purple & Green]

If you judge hibs performance on perpetual improvement in league position then you will be dissappointed. We’ve come from a long way back, but there’s always going to be bumps on the way and we’ve moved away from the constant turnover of managers. Our squad does have quality, but, I think the next managerial appointment is going to be critical to consolidation.

Anything more would be a bonus.

 

[NW]

If you judge hibs performance on perpetual improvement in league position then you will be dissappointed. We’ve come from a long way back, but there’s always going to be bumps on the way and we’ve moved away from the constant turnover of managers. Our squad does have quality, but, I think the next managerial appointment is going to be critical to consolidation.

Anything more would be a bonus.

We are looking to appoint our 4th manager / head coach in just over 5 years. Yes we have come back from a position we should never have been in but from the end of last season many many things seem to have gone wrong. We would never replace the midfield we lost it was nigh on impossible but it’s not just ability we have lost, it’s attitude, desire and a connection.
We must yo-yo more than most clubs and there is no reason for this. The whole club appears to have withdrawn inward months ago and it has lacked leadership and drive.

None of it is acceptable and those responsible need to be held to account.

 

[Jack]

but it’s not just ability we have lost, it’s attitude, desire and a connection.

I blame Neil Lennon for that. I feel he lost it at the end of last season and even more so after our Euro jaunt ... he CBA.

Most supporters are 90 minutes every fortnight and there's folk like us that debate Hibs most days. It's the manager that binds us together. He didn't.

 

[NW]

I blame Neil Lennon for that. I feel he lost it at the end of last season and even more so after our Euro jaunt ... he CBA.

Most supporters are 90 minutes every fortnight and there's folk like us that debate Hibs most days. It's the manager that binds us together. He didn't.

Jack I think you are spot on, my gripe is I’ve felt it like that for months. Why wasn’t it dealt with sooner? The board have a job to do and I think they failed us.

 

[Jack]

Jack I think you are spot on, my gripe is I’ve felt it like that for months. Why wasn’t it dealt with sooner? The board have a job to do and I think they failed us.

Aye, you're right and I'm right but we're now looking back on this wee bit of history with the benefit of hindsight.

There's no doubt Neil Lennon is a great manager in the right circumstances. 'Our board' were probably too cautious hoping, like the test of us, he'd turn it round. It's what they do! I'm not sure however many 'fans' were on the board it would have been any different.

He didn't and the signs started smacking us in the puss that he couldn't or didn't want to. As I said earlier today it's a case of irretrievable breakdown.

If we all had crystal balls ...

 

[HaarlemShuffler]

If we all had crystal balls ...

...our kids would be more fragile but reflective?

 

[SuperTortolano]

I don't think the club has ever been consistently moving forward for as long as I can remember. We peak every so often, but can never build on those peaks.

 

[Hectorhib]

...our kids would be more fragile but reflective?

.....people could see through us?

 

[The Family]

I blame Neil Lennon for that. I feel he lost it at the end of last season and even more so after our Euro jaunt ... he CBA.

Most supporters are 90 minutes every fortnight and there's folk like us that debate Hibs most days. It's the manager that binds us together. He didn't.

That's it Jack blame NL when you don't see the bigger picture, take your the board can do nothing wrong blinkers off eh, it wouldn't have mattered who was in charge no manager would have been able to work under those circumstances no matter what spin you try and put on it unless the manager was a YES man to the board.

 

[Smurf]

I blame Neil Lennon for that. I feel he lost it at the end of last season and even more so after our Euro jaunt ... he CBA.

Most supporters are 90 minutes every fortnight and there's folk like us that debate Hibs most days. It's the manager that binds us together. He didn't.

A ridiculous assertion to say that he couldn't be arsed. Until his final moments with us he has passion for the end objective pumping though him. Lennon's media friends are coming out with some legitimate points of view but are in no way being balanced. However, let's not misrepresent him the other way...

 

[Swahibee]

It's interesting how human nature demands that we find scapegoats. Some blame the Board, some blame NL, some blame the team and some simply target individuals.
The way i see it is we, and yes i include some "supporters", are all culpable to one degree or another.
A prerequisite of success and growth as a club is teamwork, both on the field of play and of it. Fergie was a tremendous exponent of that philosophy whereby even the tea lady felt important in the clubs success.
Easier said than done i know, but back in the day Turnbull managed it.

We are expected by the board to support the club/team regardless. They in turn have a duty to support the manager and staff. The manager has a duty to support and motivate his players and NOT openly criticise ANY player publicly, That is plain common sense i would have thought.
Similarily we should endeavour to be be 100% behind the team(easier pushing an elephant up the stairs, i know).
We lost more than 2 tremendous players when SJM and Dylan left. IMO we lost part of the soul of the team.The "band of brothers" began to look disjointed and played at times as if they barely knew each other.
Lenny seemed to fail to recognise that and tried to resolve on field inadequacies in adopting increasingly bizarre formations. his treatment of Flo was shameful and in no way conducive to forging team spirit.
I don't claim to know the solution or have all or any answers, but i know one thing, without unity throughout the club and without the backing of the support then we are staring at a dismal future.

 

[Greenmachine]

Great post Swahibee

 

[Greenmachine]

There is a definite sense of an era coming to an end at Easter Road, but that emphatically does not mean that we then go into a period of decline, drudgery and mediocrity. The last three or four years have been hugely enjoyable and successful but that success has not happened by pure chance or accident. It has happened IMO mainly because of the club restructure in early 2014 (prior to our hugely unexpected relegation) which amongst many things brought about the CEO post being upgraded and given much more power, influence and authority, a Director of footballing operations post being created to co-ordinate all footballing matters at Hibernian, a complete rebuild of the Youth Academy and the scouting and player recruitment network. Other things have happened as well and believe me we have many very good professional people of a very high standard working at the club. This enabled the club to recruit managers who bought into and fitted into this new structure. First of all Allan Stubbs who whilst failing to get promotion in two attempts (it would have been a massive achievement if he had managed this with Hearts and/or the Rangers in the same league) created a very good and entertaining team from practically nothing with some fantastic signings...several of whom are still vital parts of the team/squad today, and of course he won the Scottish Cup..something most of us thought we would never see in our lifetimes. That new structure also enabled us to get a high profile manager like Neil Lennon who for two years gave us a very good team, great results, promotion and a top 4 finish...the highest in 8 years, European football and our best points tally in the top league ever.
Things have now came to a crossroads however. Much has went wrong behind the scenes and on the pitch this season. Many of our cup winning players who have served the club brilliantly IMO are coming to the end of their time with Hibs. Lennon and Parker have already came to the end of their time with Hibs and I personally expect to see some significant changes in our organisation soon. I heard several months ago from a good source that Lennon and George Craig did not get on at all...in my opinion we may yet see Mr Craig moving on soon and possibly Leeann Dempster as well. They have both been at Hibs for approaching five years now and despite (in my view) both having done a great job for Hibs in that time, they may just be thinking it's time for them to move on. That doesn't mean bad news and doom and gloom for Hibs...it just means change. The structure we have at the club which as I say has proved to be successful will remain. We would appoint a new CEO to do the same job as Leeann has done...we would appoint a new Head of Footballing Operations to do the same job as George Craig has done...hopefully better in both cases. Things evolve and change in football. Nothing stands still if you want to progress as a club and surely we all want to see that. It's not down to personalities...it's down to sheer hard work and professionalism and having the right structure in place for success as we now have. Once this season is over we need to move on as a club with the new manager in charge ready to put together his squad for 2019/20 and beyond. I am confident the club will put this mess of a season behind us and make huge strides forward to ensure we are at least a top 4 club for evermore and winning more trophies and regularly competing in Europe. That is what Hibernian as the joint third biggest club in Scotland should always be achieving. Anything less is failure and everyone connected with the club should see it that way.

 

[Swahibee]

There is a definite sense of an era coming to an end at Easter Road, but that emphatically does not mean that we then go into a period of decline, drudgery and mediocrity. The last three or four years have been hugely enjoyable and successful but that success has not happened by pure chance or accident. It has happened IMO mainly because of the club restructure in early 2014 (prior to our hugely unexpected relegation) which amongst many things brought about the CEO post being upgraded and given much more power, influence and authority, a Director of footballing operations post being created to co-ordinate all footballing matters at Hibernian, a complete rebuild of the Youth Academy and the scouting and player recruitment network. Other things have happened as well and believe me we have many very good professional people of a very high standard working at the club. This enabled the club to recruit managers who bought into and fitted into this new structure. First of all Allan Stubbs who whilst failing to get promotion in two attempts (it would have been a massive achievement if he had managed this with Hearts and/or the Rangers in the same league) created a very good and entertaining team from practically nothing with some fantastic signings...several of whom are still vital parts of the team/squad today, and of course he won the Scottish Cup..something most of us thought we would never see in our lifetimes. That new structure also enabled us to get a high profile manager like Neil Lennon who for two years gave us a very good team, great results, promotion and a top 4 finish...the highest in 8 years, European football and our best points tally in the top league ever.
Things have now came to a crossroads however. Much has went wrong behind the scenes and on the pitch this season. Many of our cup winning players who have served the club brilliantly IMO are coming to the end of their time with Hibs. Lennon and Parker have already came to the end of their time with Hibs and I personally expect to see some significant changes in our organisation soon. I heard several months ago from a good source that Lennon and George Craig did not get on at all...in my opinion we may yet see Mr Craig moving on soon and possibly Leeann Dempster as well. They have both been for coming up for five years now and despite (in my view) both having done a great job for Hibs in that time, they may just be thinking it's time for them to move on. That doesn't mean bad news and doom and gloom for Hibs...it just means change. The structure we have at the club which as I say has proved to be successful will remain. We would appoint a new CEO to do the same job as Leeann has done...we would appoint a new Head of Footballing Operations to do the same job as George Craig has done...hopefully better in both cases. Things evolve and change in football. Nothing stands still if you want to progress as a club and surely we all want to see that. It's not down to personalities...it's down to sheer hard work and professionalism and having the right structure in place for success as we now have. Once this season is over we need to move on as a club with the new manager in charge ready to put together his squad for 2019/20 and beyond. I am confident the club will put this mess of a season behind us and make huge strides forward to ensure we are at least a top 4 club for evermore and winning more trophies and regularly competing in Europe. That is what Hibernian as the joint third biggest club in Scotland should always be achieving. Anything less is failure and everyone connected with the club should see it that way.

No argument here with any of that. Individuals devoting there whole career to one club are few and far between. Tam McCourt being one exception .
By it's very nature football demands individuals shelf life is extremely reliant on success or failure. Thus things constantly change and evolve.
The structure appears to be in place at ER and i would hope any changes in personnel would be seemless.
No doubt we are a big club capable of so much more. The volume and quality of interested parties to fill the void left by Lennys departure would reinforce that opinion.
It is now the CEO's and boards job to ensure they employ the right person to the position.... fingers and toes crossed.

P.S. Doubtless Gmachine one of our resident stato's will take you to task on " our best points tally in the top league ever." Used to be 2 points for a win etc.etc.

 

[aggie]

Having just read @Greenmachine and @Swahibee on this thread, I should have posted my contribution to the Just Back thread on here, as it’s probably better suited to this thread. Anyway, good posts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Smurf]

There is a definite sense of an era coming to an end at Easter Road, but that emphatically does not mean that we then go into a period of decline, drudgery and mediocrity. The last three or four years have been hugely enjoyable and successful but that success has not happened by pure chance or accident. It has happened IMO mainly because of the club restructure in early 2014 (prior to our hugely unexpected relegation) which amongst many things brought about the CEO post being upgraded and given much more power, influence and authority, a Director of footballing operations post being created to co-ordinate all footballing matters at Hibernian, a complete rebuild of the Youth Academy and the scouting and player recruitment network. Other things have happened as well and believe me we have many very good professional people of a very high standard working at the club. This enabled the club to recruit managers who bought into and fitted into this new structure. First of all Allan Stubbs who whilst failing to get promotion in two attempts (it would have been a massive achievement if he had managed this with Hearts and/or the Rangers in the same league) created a very good and entertaining team from practically nothing with some fantastic signings...several of whom are still vital parts of the team/squad today, and of course he won the Scottish Cup..something most of us thought we would never see in our lifetimes. That new structure also enabled us to get a high profile manager like Neil Lennon who for two years gave us a very good team, great results, promotion and a top 4 finish...the highest in 8 years, European football and our best points tally in the top league ever.
Things have now came to a crossroads however. Much has went wrong behind the scenes and on the pitch this season. Many of our cup winning players who have served the club brilliantly IMO are coming to the end of their time with Hibs. Lennon and Parker have already came to the end of their time with Hibs and I personally expect to see some significant changes in our organisation soon. I heard several months ago from a good source that Lennon and George Craig did not get on at all...in my opinion we may yet see Mr Craig moving on soon and possibly Leeann Dempster as well. They have both been at Hibs for approaching five years now and despite (in my view) both having done a great job for Hibs in that time, they may just be thinking it's time for them to move on. That doesn't mean bad news and doom and gloom for Hibs...it just means change. The structure we have at the club which as I say has proved to be successful will remain. We would appoint a new CEO to do the same job as Leeann has done...we would appoint a new Head of Footballing Operations to do the same job as George Craig has done...hopefully better in both cases. Things evolve and change in football. Nothing stands still if you want to progress as a club and surely we all want to see that. It's not down to personalities...it's down to sheer hard work and professionalism and having the right structure in place for success as we now have. Once this season is over we need to move on as a club with the new manager in charge ready to put together his squad for 2019/20 and beyond. I am confident the club will put this mess of a season behind us and make huge strides forward to ensure we are at least a top 4 club for evermore and winning more trophies and regularly competing in Europe. That is what Hibernian as the joint third biggest club in Scotland should always be achieving. Anything less is failure and everyone connected with the club should see it that way.

Good post. Why I would prefer a short term until the end of the season appointment for first team coach. The board between now and then should appraise the performance of all executives.

 

[NW]

Good post. Why I would prefer a short term until the end of the season appointment for first team coach. The board between now and then should appraise the performance of all executives.

They won’t though, when did the board last self evaluate? It’s seems impossible with our set up

 

[Leith1975]

There’s a lot of good points being made on this thread and people’s opinion of what has gone wrong this season will be made by which way they perceive the failure. One thing that can’t be denied is that as a club we have badly underachieved in the last 30 or so years. The last few years there seemed to be something really positive happening and I thought that finally we had the right people and the right structure in place. The test of that is if this season proves to be a blip and we come back stronger next season or it’s another slow decline. I really hope that it is just a blip and all the hard work put in turns out to be worthwhile.

 

[Smurf]

They won’t though, when did the board last self evaluate? It’s seems impossible with our set up

I'm greatly concerned about our medium to long term development. We have every right to expect to be a competitive club outside the top two. Sadly because of rich generous benefactors and FOH and AberDNA we are in real danger of finding it difficult to be competitive with the other two clubs in Scotland who are our main competition for 'best of the rest' in The Gunts and Aberdeen. Personally I think we need new ownership and leadership at the club. Not because there's a magic wand but because we need ownership and leadership that can properly engage with the support.

 

[NW]

I'm greatly concerned about our medium to long term development. We have every right to expect to be a competitive club outside the top two. Sadly because of rich generous benefactors and FOH and AberDNA we are in real danger of finding it difficult to be competitive with the other two clubs in Scotland who are our main competition for 'best of the rest' in The Gunts and Aberdeen. Personally I think we need new ownership and leadership at the club. Not because there's a magic wand but because we need ownership and leadership that can properly engage with the support.

It’s very disheartening that our club seems totally disinterested in securing investment or additional income. It’s ok the fans will just find it seems the way

 

[SuperTortolano]

I'm greatly concerned about our medium to long term development. We have every right to expect to be a competitive club outside the top two. Sadly because of rich generous benefactors and FOH and AberDNA we are in real danger of finding it difficult to be competitive with the other two clubs in Scotland who are our main competition for 'best of the rest' in The Gunts and Aberdeen. Personally I think we need new ownership and leadership at the club. Not because there's a magic wand but because we need ownership and leadership that can properly engage with the support.

We desperately need a new owner with fresh ideas and an actual interest in the club. For all the good Sir Tom did us in the past, he has absolutely zero interest in the club or football. He employs Petrie to run a tight ship and do the best to keep us in the black. That is 100% Farmer and Petrie's main objective, the playing side of things come second. For me paying the £100,000 or so to bring Allan in January should have been a done, no question. I have no doubt that with him in the team, we would have stood a better chance of top six football. That measly hundred grand could have been the difference of a place or two finish and games against the big boys. Right now, I'm going to say we look like bottom six material.

We need a new owner to turn that around and make the playing side of things a priority. This season shows any future owners that the fans will invest in the club as long as they feel the club are doing the same. Had we qualified for Europe again and properly invested, I think we may have seen 15,000 season tickets next year. Probably looking at about 12,000 now.