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Who else thinks that RG views this season as a learning ground?

HenryLB

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RG isnae the hooded claw. There is a 90 day lie period where he has requested all areas of the club report on their status. Probably each area will have to highlight their remit, what they do best, what they can improve on, their current KPIs etc etc.
Our fan rep has already stated such on a couple of occassions.

Whats he after? Only RG knows that really. What Im quite convinced about is he hasnae trawled the World looking for a company/fitba club tae run into the ground. Theres nae sence on that, and if he has changed tack from his entire career and now wants to buy companies and run them doon and close them for e.g. their land, FFS, i think he could have come up with something better than Hibernian FC. He cannae hawk land at EM, this has been brought under the club. Quite a few acreage for future tae. The ticket office and land surrounding it as also been brought under the club.

When he was announced etc, there seemed to be lots of chat towards Europe. Things would appear to be changing quite markedly in respect of Europe (proper inter country leagues it would look like)... and new markets to be tapped (fuck! if Hibernian FC operated in a non sectarian environment we would fucking flourish!!).

Whats been shit for us, imho is that the takeover has been so subdued!! 2 /3 big boy signings, proper quality, would have been a good start. Awfy awfy low key. RG should also be made 100% aware on what we have had to endure with Hibernian ploughing money into infrastructure while the first team (the reason for Hibernian FC in the first place) sufferered.
For fans to "pony up" for EM to be upgraded is a non starter.

For me, for now, RG has a pass. That pass runs to firstly the winter transfer window.
Excellent post, agree with every word.
 

HenryLB

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Like others my understanding was that Ron and STF were in discussion for a number of months before the takeover. I would have thought that before any contracts were signed Ron would have had his people into ER forensically going through the books and drilling down to look at each department, what each department does and their cost / profit ratio.

Consequently I find it surprising that we are told Rons lack of communication with the fans is because he is conducting a lengthy review of all departments. I thought that would have be an essential part of due diligence allowing him to hit the ground running and make any changes on arrival. If im wrong and I could well be, it still doesn't explain the radio silence from him and LD.

With both their media backgrounds I would have expected some level of fan engagement to energise the support and get them onside and buying into the new regime. To say fan engagement from them has been low key is an understatement. Its left to the excellent @Power to respond to our questions and deal with flak he shouldn't be receiving.

As I said elsewhere you only get one chance to make a first impression and Ron and LDs lack of communication with us doesn't help suspicion and concerns over a foreign owner who has no links to Edinburgh or the club. Added to that an owner who has settled on us after apparently shopping around various other clubs.
Agree on the engagement but I think you have to be actually 'in' the organisation to make changes to it, and that entails a bit of time spent assessing stuff post purchase. It's different to due diligence which is an entirely commercial proposition, as opposed to a systemic assessment of how to improve things, and in a sense I hope what's happened since takeover has a bigger dimension than just money. I mean it would be quite concerning if all he wanted to do was supercharge revenue streams.
 

Hammi

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Actually given it quite a bit of thought and not convinced Ron is even remotely a football fan. I think he's he's here to make a few bob and then piss off. This talk of challenging for the title is all a smokescreen. If he was really gung ho about us, he'd he at the games. I'll wait and see exactly how much interest he shows in the team.
Fancy explaining the thought process then?
Just completely unsubstantiated and there more people that think and say this without anything to go on, will lead to the more and more people thinking this.

We hadn't even heard from him before folk were already saying hes using it for the land at station etc.

Hes never been in football before, let alone football across the other side of the world.
It makes sense that it will take him time to understand the intricacies and what needs adjusted where.

You $%#@ come up with a full plan to overhaul the club before you've even bought it.
Are you even allowed to pour over every detail before you even get in the door?
Seems like if that was the case, you could turn around and not take over and the have all this crazy knowledge about the ins and outs, and use it as you see fit.


The only real downside for me, at this moment in time.
Is that hes done this for a hobby, he hasn't bought a football club because he wants the biggest and beat football club around (city, chelsea, PSG, etc etc) so that's why theres no massive influx of cash to a transfer budget and players

It's a pleasure thing and his ideas about where he wants us to be wont come to pass until hes got his own idea about what's actually possible.

Also if hes listening to leeann, and shes happy with how every area of the club is, then he might agree with her, as shes in the know, and he isnt.


Theres time, poor start to the season is drawing too much attention to all these other things.
 

HenryLB

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It makes sense that it will take him time to understand the intricacies and what needs adjusted where.

You $%#@ come up with a full plan to overhaul the club before you've even bought it.
Are you even allowed to pour over every detail before you even get in the door?
Yep. AFAIK 'due diligence' is performed with a stack of paperwork, basically to make sure the business doesn't have weird leveraging stuff happening 'under the bonnet' and everything is as it seems financially. It's not an assessment of the systems or personnel, it doesn't generate a business or management plan and it - quite obviously - isn't done from inside the organisation where the level of detail for those things would be gleaned.
 

emerald green

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Yep. AFAIK 'due diligence' is performed with a stack of paperwork, basically to make sure the business doesn't have weird leveraging stuff happening 'under the bonnet' and everything is as it seems financially. It's not an assessment of the systems or personnel, it doesn't generate a business or management plan and it - quite obviously - isn't done from inside the organisation where the level of detail for those things would be gleaned.
100%
 

Jello Biafra

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Ok let's take the part timers out of it. In our two games against full time teams, one game saw us shipping goals in the final ten and one game where we won the game in the final ten. And I'll come to the same conclusion - there is no hard evidence to suggest that we have a fitness problem and it is an internet myth.
Well, I still disagree re the fitness issue.

Also, you've still not explained what you mean and what you understand by your phrase 'internet myth'.

Which seems to me to be a lazy, unimaginative way of dismissing an argument/opinion you disgree with.
 

Jello Biafra

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Morton are full time too. We scored two goals in extra time.
WHD, Surely the fact that we needed extra-time - because we conceded another last minute goal to another full-time team - could be argued as evidence of our consistent lack of fitness - relative to our opponents - over 90 minutes?

Incidentally, we won't get the opportunity to play an extra half-hour in league games. For example, if St Johnstone score a last minute equaliser on Saturday, we'll only draw with them.
 

southfieldhibby

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Why is Straiton being mentioned again? I've got my doubts about Gordon, but Hibs don't- and never iirc?- have any interests/ownership of any land at Straiton.

I can maybe see Gordon having an interest in rezoning of land out at East Mains. It's a fairly muckle bit of land I think and there's pressure for local governments to be more flexible with allowing housing on green belt, but even that's a stretch.
 

Hammi

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The players are fit enough to play 90 minutes of football.
It's not even close to being a lack of fitness, its application and concentration that is lacking.
 

Hammi

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Why is Straiton being mentioned again? I've got my doubts about Gordon, but Hibs don't- and never iirc?- have any interests/ownership of any land at Straiton.

I can maybe see Gordon having an interest in rezoning of land out at East Mains. It's a fairly muckle bit of land I think and there's pressure for local governments to be more flexible with allowing housing on green belt, but even that's a stretch.
I brought it up because that's what was being said the moment he walked through the door.
I'd go looking for it, but I really cba
 

southfieldhibby

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I brought it up because that's what was being said the moment he walked through the door.
I'd go looking for it, but I really cba
Aye, I mind someone else saying, then it being repeated. Wasn't a dig at you pal.
 

Jello Biafra

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The players are fit enough to play 90 minutes of football.
It's not even close to being a lack of fitness, its application and concentration that is lacking.
Again, Hammi, being fit to play a game of football against opponents who are fitter than you tends to lead to you consistently losing goals to those opponents late in games.

No doubt the Hibs players are fitter than you are I and our mates down the boozer. But we're talking about young athletes competing against other young athletes. So the whole concept of fitness is not absolute, but relative.

And, relatively speaking, both Huns and Morton have been fitter than us during the past two matches.

I hope to see an improvement this Saturday.

And surely there would be a correlation between players lacking fitness and lacking concentration?

And surely the fitter they are the less issues they experience with maintaining an appropriate level of application for the full 90 plus whatever minutes?

Do you recall The 21.5.2016? I said to my old man as we stood on the North Enclosure with 20 minutes to go, 'the hunz are phucked, Faither. Knackered. We've just got to keep at them'.

And we did. And we scored two late goals: firstly to equalise; secondly to win.

Do you know why?

Because we were fitter than them that day.

That is why.

Do you recall the same Saturday, exactly 52 weeks earlier (Saturday, 23 May 2015(? We hosted the hunz in the second leg of the play-off at Easter Road. We won 1-0. A Pyrrhic victory, as you'll recall. But our goal was scored five minutes into injury time.

Again, because we were fitter than them that day.

Do you recall Alex McLeish's Hibs the season we got relegated? (Let's face it, we were already down when he was appointed.) We drew four of his games 1-1 with injury time equalisers:
- Saturday, 21 March 1998: St Johnstone (away)
- Saturday, 28 March 1998: Sheep (home)
- Saturday, 18 April 1998: Dunfermline (away)
- Saturday, 9 May 1998: Killie (away)

Yet again, because we were fitter than them.

Fitness is massively important in an athletic sport like football. It's not darts, you know.

The fitter you are, the better and stronger you last for the whole game. You are more likely to consistently score late goals. You are less likely to consistently concede late goals.

At present, we are the latter. That is concerning.

It needs rectified.

Starting Saturday.
 

Hammi

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Again, Hammi, being fit to play a game of football against opponents who are fitter than you tends to lead to you consistently losing goals to those opponents late in games.

No doubt the Hibs players are fitter than you are I and our mates down the boozer. But we're talking about young athletes competing against other young athletes. So the whole concept of fitness is not absolute, but relative.

And, relatively speaking, both Huns and Morton have been fitter than us during the past two matches.

I hope to see an improvement this Saturday.

And surely there would be a correlation between players lacking fitness and lacking concentration?

And surely the fitter they are the less issues they experience with maintaining an appropriate level of application for the full 90 plus whatever minutes?

Do you recall The 21.5.2016? I said to my old man as we stood on the North Enclosure with 20 minutes to go, 'the hunz are phucked, Faither. Knackered. We've just got to keep at them'.

And we did. And we scored two late goals: firstly to equalise; secondly to win.

Do you know why?

Because we were fitter than them that day.

That is why.

Do you recall the same Saturday, exactly 52 weeks earlier (Saturday, 23 May 2015(? We hosted the hunz in the second leg of the play-off at Easter Road. We won 1-0. A Pyrrhic victory, as you'll recall. But our goal was scored five minutes into injury time.

Again, because we were fitter than them that day.

Do you recall Alex McLeish's Hibs the season we got relegated? (Let's face it, we were already down when he was appointed.) We drew four of his games 1-1 with injury time equalisers:
- Saturday, 21 March 1998: St Johnstone (away)
- Saturday, 28 March 1998: Sheep (home)
- Saturday, 18 April 1998: Dunfermline (away)
- Saturday, 9 May 1998: Killie (away)

Yet again, because we were fitter than them.

Fitness is massively important in an athletic sport like football. It's not darts, you know.

The fitter you are, the better and stronger you last for the whole game. You are more likely to consistently score late goals. You are less likely to consistently concede late goals.

At present, we are the latter. That is concerning.

It needs rectified.

Starting Saturday.

I disagree, you're just repeating yourself and refusing to see the other factors that come into play.
What you're saying is correct, the fitter you are l, the longer you go, yada yada...
But again, for me, its mentality.

We didnt lose to Huns over fitness, we didnt scrape by against st Mirren and Morton because of fitness.

St mirren wanted to prove they were good enough to play against a team that came out and played like they just expected to win.
Hunco, we went out there scared of them and let them play their game.
Morton, wanted it more than we did. It was them that ran out of legs.

Attitude and mindset trumps fitness when you're an athlete.
 

Jello Biafra

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I disagree, you're just repeating yourself and refusing to see the other factors that come into play.
What you're saying is correct, the fitter you are l, the longer you go, yada yada...
But again, for me, its mentality.

We didnt lose to Huns over fitness, we didnt scrape by against st Mirren and Morton because of fitness.

St mirren wanted to prove they were good enough to play against a team that came out and played like they just expected to win.
Hunco, we went out there scared of them and let them play their game.
Morton, wanted it more than we did. It was them that ran out of legs.

Attitude and mindset trumps fitness when you're an athlete.
We'll have to agree to differ there, sir.

But I'd be interested to know who your authority is for that rationale.

You can have all the desire in the world, all the ability in the world, but, if you're not fit, you'll always struggle in football.

This has been borne out by several notable talents who wasted their talent by not training and consequently lacked adequate match fitness - relative to their opponents - and subsequently retired far earlier than they might have. For example, Jim Baxter, George Best and, more recently, our very own Derek Riordan.

Incidentally, I once saw an interview with the late Jim Baxter, who conceded his lack of fitness by the time he was in his late 20s, and the significance of the comparative element, as he stated that he knew he had to retire when: 'Ah wiz gettin' beat by players I wouldn't huv shit on ten year ago'!
 

Hammi

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We'll have to agree to differ there, sir.

But I'd be interested to know who your authority is for that rationale.

You can have all the desire in the world, all the ability in the world, but, if you're not fit, you'll always struggle in football.

This has been borne out by several notable talents who wasted their talent by not training and consequently lacked adequate match fitness - relative to their opponents - and subsequently retired far earlier than they might have. For example, Jim Baxter, George Best and, more recently, our very own Derek Riordan.

Incidentally, I once saw an interview with the late Jim Baxter, who conceded his lack of fitness by the time he was in his late 20s, and the significance of the comparative element, as he stated that he knew he had to retire when: 'Ah wiz gettin' beat by players I wouldn't huv shit on ten year ago'!

Interested to know why you dont think they correlate?
In order to get fit, you have to have the mentality and mindset to go about getting yourself fit enough.

If you know your lacking, it's on you to do something about it.
Its in the head.


Trying to tell me George best and Derek Riordans failings were their fitness?
Not their attitude towards the sport?

Come on eh.
 

Jello Biafra

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Interested to know why you dont think they correlate?
In order to get fit, you have to have the mentality and mindset to go about getting yourself fit enough.

If you know your lacking, it's on you to do something about it.
Its in the head.


Trying to tell me George best and Derek Riordans failings were their fitness?
Not their attitude towards the sport?

Come on eh.
I would agree that they're corellated. However, in my opinion, returning to my original point, a team which consistently concedes late goals to its opponents is comparatively lacking in fitness or less fit than their opponents.

And if they're less fit than their opponents (a hard scientific fact), more abstract/soft concepts such as 'attitude' would not compensate. After all, surely the fitter opponents also have minds, too?

Hypothetically, if you're a knackered full-back (say Steven Whittaker; who has the right attitude) and you try to rush back to clear the ball effectively, if you were that bit fitter, you might have done so. Instead you score a last minute og. Instead we draw (inside 90 mins) a game (against full-time opponents) we should have/would have won had we been fitter.

Attitude is not without its merits.

But, for me, fitness supersedes it.

Your argument is circular; which is not totally without merit. But I disagree, respectfully.
 

Bossie

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Well, I still disagree re the fitness issue.

Also, you've still not explained what you mean and what you understand by your phrase 'internet myth'.

Which seems to me to be a lazy, unimaginative way of dismissing an argument/opinion you disgree with.
By internet myth I mean someone presents an opinion that is usually based on no evidence yet, through the power of the crowd, becomes a fact.
 

Hammi

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I would agree that they're corellated. However, in my opinion, returning to my original point, a team which consistently concedes late goals to its opponents is comparatively lacking in fitness or less fit than their opponents.

And if they're less fit than their opponents (a hard scientific fact), more abstract/soft concepts such as 'attitude' would not compensate. After all, surely the fitter opponents also have minds, too?

Hypothetically, if you're a knackered full-back (say Steven Whittaker; who has the right attitude) and you try to rush back to clear the ball effectively, if you were that bit fitter, you might have done so. Instead you score a last minute og. Instead we draw (inside 90 mins) a game (against full-time opponents) we should have/would have won had we been fitter.

Attitude is not without its merits.

But, for me, fitness supersedes it.

Your argument is circular; which is not totally without merit. But I disagree, respectfully.

Consistently? Where is this consistency?
What constitutes late?

Individual players, yes, since we're naming Steven, individual players, who have had umpteen injuries and at the latter stage of his career, it's hardly surprising?

I think you're right in the fact that this is circular... we could do this all day.

One last point though.
What is your definition of fitness. What exactly are the players lacking?

Because theres about 7 or 8 different aspects of fitness and a player with high endurance can have low strength and speed. So if your casing it on a players ability to run at 100% for 90 minutes your singling out certain areas and ignoring others.
 

Jello Biafra

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By internet myth I mean someone presents an opinion that is usually based on no evidence yet, through the power of the crowd, becomes a fact.
Thank you. Again, however, I disgree with you on this issue. Our lack of fitness/perceived lack of fitness has been a particular bugbear of mine for much of the 36 years of my life I've spent as a supporter. I have a mind of my own and express my own opinions.

So, while I accept that in this day and age of social media domination 'internet myths' undoubtedly exist, my contention that Hecky's Hibs of this season - based on the evidence of the last two matches against full-time opponents - is, I believe, supported by hard, empirical facts.

You disagree. That's fine. We're all Hibbies, but we all have different perspectives.

Other posters, for example, Hammi, appear to share my concern about the late goals. However, he, again, for example, attributes this more to a lack of application; as opposed to a lack of fitness.

Again, I respectfully disagree with him.
 

HibeeZab

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Fitness doesn’t win a game of football - that comes down to application, attitude and desire.

Winners in any sport aren’t the most physically or technically gifted, they are tho ones who are the strongest mentally.
 

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