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When people disappear down the conspiracy rabbit hole

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I previously posted this on the podcasts thread. Season one is all about qanon which spawned the pizza thing and so much else. Worth a listen.

www.bbc.co.uk

BBC Sounds - The Coming Storm - Available Episodes

Listen to the latest episodes of The Coming Storm on BBC Sounds.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

It’s also quite sad for many reason including you will find the origins of the things Ryan believes he has uncovered, and hear people saying the things he does right down to the same phrases.

So many vulnerable people swept away by this and the general post truth, low (zero?) trust climate of our day.
 
egb_hibs said:
I previously posted this on the podcasts thread. Season one is all about qanon which spawned the pizza thing and so much else. Worth a listen.

www.bbc.co.uk

BBC Sounds - The Coming Storm - Available Episodes

Listen to the latest episodes of The Coming Storm on BBC Sounds.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

It’s also quite sad for many reason including you will find the origins of the things Ryan believes he has uncovered, and hear people saying the things he does right down to the same phrases.

So many vulnerable people swept away by this and the general post truth, low (zero?) trust climate of our day.
Click to expand...


Don't you think there are conspiracy theories and then there are conspiracy theories? Some conspiracy theories get traction because they are plausible, like the JFK assassination is fishy and then there are the totally out there pizzagate nonsense or jewish space lasers or something wild.
 
BurbankHibee said:
Don't you think there are conspiracy theories and then there are conspiracy theories? Some conspiracy theories get traction because they are plausible, like the JFK assassination is fishy and then there are the totally out there pizzagate nonsense or jewish space lasers or something wild.
Click to expand...
There is a conspiracy theory that conspiracy theories are spread to discredit conspiracy theories.

Mind bending as that is I wouldn’t rule it out. There is certainly a difference between the JFK assassination and pizzagate. I personally believe LHO was the only shooter but it’s not mad to believe there might be more to it - although that does lead some to mad takes.

Then we have the attempt by senior medical experts with a vested interest in Wuhan lab research to paint lab leak hypotheses as a conspiracy theory - I mean that itself is a real conspiracy and for a time it was taken up and even enforced by media.

Meanwhile, critical theory is taught in formerly respectable universities, and it is explicitly conspiracy theory.

So there’s def a spectrum, but as we all know, social media has put booster rockets on everything. On top of a culture where the mainstream and venerable academic institutions operate in a post truth mode, a lot of folk have just chucked it. Folk just believe what they want to - and after all, ‘my truth’ is all over endorsed as a thing.

Again I’ve posted before but I believe this is an insightful take on it. Some conspiracy theories carry truths within untrue / fictional narratives, like fairy tales as the writer puts it. So that’s yet another component.

unherd.com

The fairy-tale allure of conspiracies

They often contain profound allegorical truth
unherd.com unherd.com
 
egb_hibs said:
There is a conspiracy theory that conspiracy theories are spread to discredit conspiracy theories.

Mind bending as that is I wouldn’t rule it out. There is certainly a difference between the JFK assassination and pizzagate. I personally believe LHO was the only shooter but it’s not mad to believe there might be more to it - although that does lead some to mad takes.

Then we have the attempt by senior medical experts with a vested interest in Wuhan lab research to paint lab leak hypotheses as a conspiracy theory - I mean that itself is a real conspiracy and for a time it was taken up and even enforced by media.

Meanwhile, critical theory is taught in formerly respectable universities, and it is explicitly conspiracy theory.

So there’s def a spectrum, but as we all know, social media has put booster rockets on everything. On top of a culture where the mainstream and venerable academic institutions operate in a post truth mode, a lot of folk have just chucked it. Folk just believe what they want to - and after all, ‘my truth’ is all over endorsed as a thing.
Click to expand...

Now you are adding ideologies (critical race theory) to conspiracy theories and conspiracy theories. I think there is a (slight?) difference.

Social media really has created a bizarre environment.
 
BurbankHibee said:
Now you are adding ideologies (critical race theory) to conspiracy theories and conspiracy theories. I think there is a (slight?) difference.
Click to expand...
Is there ? The notion that an abstract ‘them’ run the show for their benefit and exclude and disadvantage others is the central theme of critical theory and the backbone of many common or garden conspiracy theories.

The notion that people need to ‘wake up’ and see through the illusions woven by them in order to understand the real ‘truth’ and liberate themselves, is again intrinsic to both. The critical theory crowd even self designate on the basis of having achieved this, ie they are ‘woke’. Critical theory is conspiracy theory. How many times does Ryan urge us to ‘wake up’; the modes of thought and even the terminology are the same.
BurbankHibee said:
Social media really has created a bizarre environment.
Click to expand...
Yup, so has the mainstream media though, and academia.
 
egb_hibs said:
Is there ? The notion that an abstract ‘them’ run the show for their benefit and exclude and disadvantage others is the central theme of critical theory and the backbone of many common or garden conspiracy theories.

The notion that people need to ‘wake up’ and see through the illusions woven by them in order to understand the real ‘truth’ and liberate themselves, is again intrinsic to both. The critical theory crowd even self designate on the basis of having achieved this, ie they are ‘woke’. Critical theory is conspiracy theory. How many times does Ryan urge us to ‘wake up’; the modes of thought and even the terminology are the same.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I suppose you are right on this one, I just never thought of it that way.

egb_hibs said:
Yup, so has the mainstream media though, and academia.
Click to expand...

And our awful politicians.
 
BurbankHibee said:
Yeah, I suppose you are right on this one, I just never thought of it that way.
Click to expand...
It’s the same way of thinking just enacted by highly erudite academics and dressed up in multi syllable words and abstractions that are, in fact, completely invented.

I mean are Kemi Badenoch and a 12 year old rape victim in some northern hellhole where the state apparatus is complicit with her assailants, really both connected by possession of, and being beneficiaries of ‘whiteness’? Or is this just transparent bullshit, not at all far removed from thinking that can find a Jewish root behind anything undesirable ?
BurbankHibee said:
And our awful politicians.
Click to expand...
Yup
 
BurbankHibee said:
Don't you think there are conspiracy theories and then there are conspiracy theories? Some conspiracy theories get traction because they are plausible, like the JFK assassination is fishy and then there are the totally out there pizzagate nonsense or jewish space lasers or something wild.
Click to expand...
I think there's a difference between conspiracy theories that develop from a detailed examination of an event such as JFK's assassination and ones that are a mix of muddled and mendacity.

It's right to question official narratives, but we've got to a stage where official narratives are often not believed while randoms on the internet are. COVID is a prime example. The vaccine will kill you while horse dewormer or bleach will save you. Or the sovereign citizen movement.

Some of this is due to distrust of authority which has been ruthlessly exploited. Qanon or the pizzagate story were simply made up for political reasons and to sow distrust and chaos. Sometimes it's internal and sometimes it's foreign actors.

It's no coincidence that the proponents of these made up conspiracies also attack legacy media and fact checkers.

It also leads to situations like the rape gangs issue here, that the starting position for many people is that there must be a conspiracy, led surprise surprise by Labour. The worst part for me of the weaponising of issues like this is it makes it harder to deal with the core issue. But again the likes of Musk don't care. They just want the doubt and the chaos that follows.
 
Archie said:
I think there's a difference between conspiracy theories that develop from a detailed examination of an event such as JFK's assassination and ones that are a mix of muddled and mendacity.

It's right to question official narratives, but we've got to a stage where official narratives are often not believed while randoms on the internet are. COVID is a prime example. The vaccine will kill you while horse dewormer or bleach will save you. Or the sovereign citizen movement.

Some of this is due to distrust of authority which has been ruthlessly exploited. Qanon or the pizzagate story were simply made up for political reasons and to sow distrust and chaos. Sometimes it's internal and sometimes it's foreign actors.

It's no coincidence that the proponents of these made up conspiracies also attack legacy media and fact checkers.

It also leads to situations like the rape gangs issue here, that the starting position for many people is that there must be a conspiracy, led surprise surprise by Labour. The worst part for me of the weaponising of issues like this is it makes it harder to deal with the core issue. But again the likes of Musk don't care. They just want the doubt and the chaos that follows.
Click to expand...
Oh dear. That was all going so well until your last paragraph.

A situation where there is yards of testimony and findings from previous inquiries that documents insitutional cover up and even facilitation of gangs from institutions, including the Labour Party, is not pizzagate. Indeed it absolutely does feature conspiracies to suppress among other things.

And this kind of thing helps give life to conspiracy theories. After all, what kind of complete nutter would you have to be to believe in pizzagate’s politicians involved in pedo rings and the msm disguising it - in a world where British politicians were covering for pedo rings and the msm disguising it?

It seems to me you don’t want to consider the mainstream’s role in creating the lack of trust that in turn provides the climate for conspiracy theorists to fester. You’ll not get far in understanding what’s going on if you insist on that; or indeed in understanding the world around us.

I can’t help noticing btw, that your comments on rape gangs seem to heavily revolve around protecting Labour’s reputation. Seriously who gives a fck about that? The tories should be in the dock for doing next to bugger all about it while in office - with some exceptions such as Braverman making some inroads into tackling the gangs. If Labour’s own role extends from local government into the parliamentary party then that should be brought into the light and people held accountable. If it stays in local government, the Labour leadership only have that issue to deal with and the PLP is in the clear - well historically, it will remain on them to do something about it now. As things stand, names have been named from within the party of the time. It should not be hard for the libel lawyers to do their ting if the PLP has been impugned.

Do you really disagree with this? And let’s not get diverted with actions from previous inquiries. As ever, no one is disagreeing with those being the priority so no need to use it as a shield.
 
egb_hibs said:
I previously posted this on the podcasts thread. Season one is all about qanon which spawned the pizza thing and so much else. Worth a listen.

www.bbc.co.uk

BBC Sounds - The Coming Storm - Available Episodes

Listen to the latest episodes of The Coming Storm on BBC Sounds.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

It’s also quite sad for many reason including you will find the origins of the things Ryan believes he has uncovered, and hear people saying the things he does right down to the same phrases.

So many vulnerable people swept away by this and the general post truth, low (zero?) trust climate of our day.
Click to expand...
Most conspiracies....turn out tobe true.

Pizzagate was a real thing.

It was proven in Hilary Clinton's emails.

That's one of many reasons Julian Assange had to hide in Ecuadorian embassy for years.

To believe everything the media says(when there's so many proven lies)...is insanity.
 
Ryan69 said:
Most conspiracies....turn out tobe true.

Pizzagate was a real thing.

It was proven in Hilary Clinton's emails.

That's one of many reasons Julian Assange had to hide in Ecuadorian embassy for years.

To believe everything the media says(when there's so many proven lies)...is insanity.
Click to expand...
Pizzagate, is of course absolute nonsense, spread by dafties and recently, teenagers looking for a laugh.
The emails completely disproved the crazy story rather than proved it.
Nae luck Ryan.
 
Doc Shrink said:
Pizzagate, is of course absolute nonsense, spread by dafties and recently, teenagers looking for a laugh.
The emails completely disproved the crazy story rather than proved it.
Nae luck Ryan.
Click to expand...

I've never heard of it. Did Hilary order from her local Domino's and they left it at the bottom of her garden or summit?
 
Ryan69 said:
Most conspiracies....turn out tobe true.

Pizzagate was a real thing.

It was proven in Hilary Clinton's emails.

That's one of many reasons Julian Assange had to hide in Ecuadorian embassy for years.

To believe everything the media says(when there's so many proven lies)...is insanity.
Click to expand...
It really wasn't.
 
Ryan69 said:
Most conspiracies....turn out tobe true.

Pizzagate was a real thing.

It was proven in Hilary Clinton's emails.

That's one of many reasons Julian Assange had to hide in Ecuadorian embassy for years.

To believe everything the media says(when there's so many proven lies)...is insanity.
Click to expand...
Ryan it was utter, 100% bullshit. That fandan in Archie’s op arrived there to liberate the kids kept in the basement to find the building doesn’t even have one.

You’re being duped fella.
 
And some folk complain about pineapple on theirs!

Pineapples and the recent cruise discussions. Tobe discussed on a separate thread I think 🍍 😜
 
The origin of the story was Wikileaks dump of the Democrats emails. Routine e mails ware 'interpreted' as being code for paedophilia. All made up.
 
Archie said:
The origin of the story was Wikileaks dump of the Democrats emails. Routine e mails ware 'interpreted' as being code for paedophilia. All made up.
Click to expand...
Yup, and made up to a really quite extravagant degree. The whole thing is bonkers.

I mean it’s akin to suggesting ‘Just Backs’ are coded instructions to overthrow the Holyrood government. That level of obtuse mentalism. Gender theory levels of madey up madness.
 
Where do you fall if you don't fully believe the narrative? 9/11 is one that has some crazy coincidences that make me question who and why. Obviously two planes hit the buildings, but many of what happened before the events, during and after have me not believing what was reported.
 
SuperTortolano said:
Where do you fall if you don't fully believe the narrative? 9/11 is one that has some crazy coincidences that make me question who and why. Obviously two planes hit the buildings, but many of what happened before the events, during and after have me not believing what was reported.
Click to expand...
I'm like you but I think now it's easier to believe that in whatever scenario, bits and pieces will be picked apart and made to fit some weird theory created by people seeking fame/money through publicity/books etc, ordinary folks spreading stuff "cos I seen it on youtube", zoomers like Ryan and of course master zoomers like David Icke who over the decades very subtly changes his focus to keep the gullible hooked.
 
Also if you take 1875 and use the letters of the alphabet then it's

AHGE.

Which COULD be seen as sinister. 🤔
 
Ryan69 said:
Most conspiracies....turn out tobe true.

Pizzagate was a real thing.

It was proven in Hilary Clinton's emails.

That's one of many reasons Julian Assange had to hide in Ecuadorian embassy for years.

To believe everything the media says(when there's so many proven lies)...is insanity.
Click to expand...

There wasn’t even a basement at the pizza place.

Conspiracy theorists tend to have overactive imaginations. They connect dots that shouldn’t be connected. It’s part of being human to find order in disorder - hence religion.

I’ve had a few friends who have had psychotic episodes. All of their breakdowns began with them making connections where there were none. An undeveloped roll of film and a key found at the back of a drawer is a good example that ended up two years later with a good friend being sectioned.

Personally I think most scandals are the result of incompetence.
 
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