What Manager Sackings Were Wrong?

[Smurf]

Sacked Hibs managers in my lifetime as a Hibee:

Auld; A far bigger imposter than Heckingbottom. Should never have got the job and rightly punted as soon as Kenny Waugh took over.

Blackley: Made a few great signings and got us to the League Cup Final in 1985. Limited tactically and eventually had to go. A bit like John Hughes time as Hibs boss.

Duffy: A joke. should have been punted long before he was and we just might have avoided relegation in 1998. Found his level in the First Division.

Sauzee; Should never have been appointed...but was badly treated by the club.

Williamson; Gets too much criticism in my opinion. Brought through some great young players, but to be honest he just didn't fit in at Hibs. I think he was gently eased out the door. Rightly in my view...we needed change and we certainly got it with Mr Mowbray.

Mixu; Deserved more time. Good derby record. Tactically a bit naive. Went on to manage his country so he had to have been doing something right. Did a good job at Killie.

Hughes: Started off really well but it all went downhill fairly quickly once he lost the respect of he players and you have had it when that happens. Rightly sacked and not done much since being punted.

Calderwood; A joke. Should never have got the job and rightly sacked when he was.

Butcher; A total disaster. A worse fit for the Hibs managers job there has never been. Rightly sacked on the spot after relegating the club from a safe position. Done nothing since.

That's it. I think Heckingbottom and Stockdale will get more time to turn things round if they can. If we keep on losing though they will rightly be punted. It will be expensive though.

You sure sloop was sacked? My understanding was that he quit and indeed tried to do so before his resignation was finally accepted?

 

[Greenmachine]

Erm... He won the Scottish Cup, got to the League cup final and was voted manager of the year. With Inverness.

Yep...apologies. Doing him a disservice. He actually also deserves credit for achieving a fourth place finish in his first season at Hibs and getting European football.

 

[Greenmachine]

You sure sloop was sacked? My understanding was that he quit and indeed tried to do so before his resignation was finally accepted?

Could be right Smurf...I just always thought he was emptied.
Great servant to the club was John Blackley.

 

[cleanyman]

All of the sackings have been pretty much spot on

Its the appointments that are far more worrying

Fenlon, Calderwood, Butcher and Heckinbottom should have never got the job in a million years

Hughes deserves a pass for finishing 4th
Mixu for a top 6 finish
Stubbs for the cup
Collins for the cup
Boaby in difficult circumstances
Lennon for one memorable season

 

[SlovSam]

Fenlon was an interesting case as his job when appointed was to stop us getting relegated and try to sort out the mess of Calderwood. He did and we were 7th.

When he was sacked (left) we were comfortable mid table 5th/6th and were only 5 points off being 2nd and in between he got the club to two Scottish Cup finals.

It would be quite surprising then to an outsider to pinpoint the reasons for his sacking and of course the usual suspects of lost the dressing room/No plan B whatever the fck that means/drab football or poor substitutions would get rolled out and to some extent supporters would hide behind that.

It wasnt though because as we all know Fenlon was culpable for two of the worst results in Hibs history and an excruciating loss to what looked like a Herts under 21 team at home in the league cup which prompted the post match demo.

Fenlon was well out of his depth and the clock was definitely ticking but I think other managers would have survived longer had they not had these enormous millstones around their neck of that Scottish cup final and Malmo at home.

 

[cleanyman]

Fenlon was an interesting case as his job when appointed was to stop us getting relegated and try to sort out the mess of Calderwood. He did and we were 7th.

When he was sacked (left) we were comfortable mid table 5th/6th and were only 5 points off being 2nd and in between he got the club to two Scottish Cup finals.

It would be quite surprising then to an outsider to pinpoint the reasons for his sacking and of course the usual suspects of lost the dressing room/No plan B whatever the fck that means/drab football or poor substitutions would get rolled out and to some extent supporters would hide behind that.

It wasnt though because as we all know Fenlon was culpable for two of the worst results in Hibs history and an excruciating loss to what looked like a Herts under 21 team at home in the league cup which prompted the post match demo.

Fenlon was well out of his depth and the clock was definitely ticking but I think other managers would have survived longer had they not had these enormous millstones around their neck of that Scottish cup final and Malmo at home.

Fenlon assembled a truly shocking squad that led to us going down. We couldn't score and had players like Vine, Collins, Nelson and that dud Mullen or whoever it was.

Butcher put the final nail in the coffin

 

[HenryLB]

All of the sackings have been pretty much spot on

Its the appointments that are far more worrying

Fenlon, Calderwood, Butcher and Heckinbottom should have never got the job in a million years

Hughes deserves a pass for finishing 4th
Mixu for a top 6 finish
Stubbs for the cup
Collins for the cup
Boaby in difficult circumstances
Lennon for one memorable season

Good point re the appointments. Although I could (sort of) see the rationales for Fenlon and Heckingbottom at the time. Calderwood I found pretty mystifying because he always looked like he didn't really want the job, and Butcher was just a ridiculous hire on every level.

You could make an argument that Mixu was a bit green which I think contributed to the speed of his exit, like I'm not sure Hibs were ever quite sure he was the man for the job. Collins made good sense although I think gets a lot of undeserved credit. Williamson is a funny one because he had a decent record but I always thought was not at all a 'hibs-type' manager, and he proceeded to prove that in spades.

 

[1875]

It would be quite surprising then to an outsider to pinpoint the reasons for his sacking and of course the usual suspects of ......No plan B whatever the fck that means/drab football ........and to some extent supporters would hide behind that.

If you would like clear examples of what that means, watch the current Hibs team after we go a goal down! Saturdays laughable attempt was Newell and Doidge for Halberg and Horgan.

 

[dmn1989]

Didn’t agree with John Hughes sacking , thought it was premature

I think this was an awkward one. The board shafting him over by selling Stokes late on and we rushed about for a replacement who was Crocked. Results weren’t good but was probably a better candidate for the job than who replaced him. I agree, I think he should have got more time but the fans had turned on him. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

 

[MeanwoodHibee]

Butcher was just a ridiculous hire on every level.

I think you could look back through this forum and find that when Butcher was appointed most people thought Petrie had pulled off quite a coup prising him away from ICT. Plus he brought with him that goalkeeping coach/scout guy who seemed to have a better record of finding gems from the English lower leagues than our current recruitment team. I don't think anyone foresaw it would turn out as horrendously as it did.

 

[hibbiemacfie]

Strange thing is if Hibs were to win on Sunday to give Heckingbottom some more time only to be fired after a few more games he would have a undefeated record against the Hearts. It's a funny old game. ?

 

[Hibee Kev]

Seem to recall a certain Jim Duffy got a positive result against the Gunts once upon a time and it effectively relegated us as he got a stay of execution ?

Still hope we pump them on Sunday though.

 

[Doc Shrink]

Seem to recall a certain Jim Duffy got a positive result against the Gunts once upon a time and it effectively relegated us as he got a stay of execution ?

Still hope we pump them on Sunday though.

I'm of the view that I want to beat them, no matter what the 'long term effect' is. I just want the Diets gubbed, and the Hibs to gub them.

I fully expect at least one of the managers involved to be removed.
Levein is more than likely to be first, with McCann taking over (good - he's a fud anaw) but Hecky has to be checking out his termination clause. Might be they both go - irrespective of the result.

 

[Purple & Green]

Yes I think he did. He gave an interview still in his Hibs gear after stepping down which I remember.

I think he offered to resign twice before it was finally accepted. I'm in a minority, but I think Pats biggest failing was not having enough faith in his own ability.

 

[Purple & Green]

I think you could look back through this forum and find that when Butcher was appointed most people thought Petrie had pulled off quite a coup prising him away from ICT. Plus he brought with him that goalkeeping coach/scout guy who seemed to have a better record of finding gems from the English lower leagues than our current recruitment team. I don't think anyone foresaw it would turn out as horrendously as it did.

Not me

 

[MSG_07]

I think he offered to resign twice before it was finally accepted. I'm in a minority, but I think Pats biggest failing was not having enough faith in his own ability.

Probably a mixture of that and being too nice to the players. Leigh Griffiths always spoke very highly of him.

 

[Davy]

Being a football manager must be one of the few professions where you can fail to perform yet walk away with a large sum of money

In real life the rest of us would be disciplined and sacked

Unless you were a politician, cheif exec, banker etc

 

[HaarlemShuffler]

Not me

me too @WillieWilson

 

[Greenmachine]

I think you could look back through this forum and find that when Butcher was appointed most people thought Petrie had pulled off quite a coup prising him away from ICT. Plus he brought with him that goalkeeping coach/scout guy who seemed to have a better record of finding gems from the English lower leagues than our current recruitment team. I don't think anyone foresaw it would turn out as horrendously as it did.

Good post. I can totally understand why Petrie went for Butcher at that time. His record at Inverness with very limited resources was superb, and at that point in the season they were second in the league. His chief scout Marsella had found several gems from the lower leagues and they had almost all went on to be good players at Inverness. Butcher also was a born leader and had played at the highest level and had also captained his country in the World Cup. He had also made it clear to the club through various sources he wanted the Hibs job. I was pleased when he got the job for all of the aforementioned reasons as well. It turned out to be a disasterous appointment as he was completely the wrong fit for Hibs and he was too much of a change in style from Fenlon especially half way through the season. The players reacted very badly and the rest is history. As I said though I can fully understand why Petrie went for Terry Butcher in the first place.

 

[SlovSam]

Good post. I can totally understand why Petrie went for Butcher at that time. His record at Inverness with very limited resources was superb, and at that point in the season they were second in the league. His chief scout Marsella had found several gems from the lower leagues and they had almost all went on to be good players at Inverness. Butcher also was a born leader and had played at the highest level and had also captained his country in the World Cup. He had also made it clear to the club through various sources he wanted the Hibs job. I was pleased when he got the job for all of the aforementioned reasons as well. It turned out to be a disasterous appointment as he was completely the wrong fit for Hibs and he was too much of a change in style from Fenlon especially half way through the season. The players reacted very badly and the rest is history. As I said though I can fully understand why Petrie went for Terry Butcher in the first place.

This is how I remember it as well. Petrie had played a blinder and there wasn't that much in the way of dissenting voices though no doubt this small minority called it right.

Its been long forgotten that Butcher took Hibs to the St Johnstone away match still in with an outside chance of top 6 so Fenlons players weren't collectively all that bad even though individually players such as "The Admiral" made you wonder.

As always though new Managers have to make the "big man look at me call". and Butcher made the ridiculous decision of telling many of the players they were oot on their erse at the end of the season before safety was assured.

The team downed tools and barely won another point along with panic team selections, injuries galore and shouting matches involving Maurice "Backpass" prowling around picking off any stragglers.

It has to be textbook stuff of what not to do when you join a new club.

 

[The Eternal Carthorse]

It’s the same with every Club in football, inspirational finds and absolute failures, although you can have a feeling something isn’t quite right it has to be able to play out whether it be a short or medium term workout. PH like many from his County have a way with people that can be really confusing, sometimes full of extremes, I know a couple of Barnsley fans who said PH was always up himself and if he was chocolate would eat himself whole. Their verdict a plonker !. Wrong recruitment IMO, a desperate choice.

I would have given Mixu more time and tried to encourage Collins to be more flexible, but he spat his dummy out and that was it. It was the wrong moment for Le God, a real panic appointment, as he said himself.

The others I would say had more reason to be binned other than those who left by other means.

 

[cleanyman]

Sums up the entire recruitment department

From manager to players

Scrap it and start again

 

[HenryLB]

I think you could look back through this forum and find that when Butcher was appointed most people thought Petrie had pulled off quite a coup prising him away from ICT. Plus he brought with him that goalkeeping coach/scout guy who seemed to have a better record of finding gems from the English lower leagues than our current recruitment team. I don't think anyone foresaw it would turn out as horrendously as it did.

I'm sure you're right. I'm probably giving myself the benefit of hindsight. I do recall thinking that his and ICT's brand of football were a bad fit for us, and that while he'd been successful there in terms of their expectations he was generally a dinosaur.

 

[stickyRicky]

This is how I remember it as well. Petrie had played a blinder and there wasn't that much in the way of dissenting voices though no doubt this small minority called it right.

Its been long forgotten that Butcher took Hibs to the St Johnstone away match still in with an outside chance of top 6 so Fenlons players weren't collectively all that bad even though individually players such as "The Admiral" made you wonder.

As always though new Managers have to make the "big man look at me call". and Butcher made the ridiculous decision of telling many of the players they were oot on their erse at the end of the season before safety was assured.

The team downed tools and barely won another point along with panic team selections, injuries galore and shouting matches involving Maurice "Backpass" prowling around picking off any stragglers.

It has to be textbook stuff of what not to do when you join a new club.

Did he no tell folk who weren't getting a renewed contract early? Also he said he'd rather play the kids rather than the seniors cos they we're playing gash?

 

[Doc Shrink]

Did he no tell folk who weren't getting a renewed contract early? Also he said he'd rather play the kids rather than the seniors cos they we're playing gash?

Yes, that sounds familiar. Seemed to be angry a lot. Or just frustrated.
Always fulminating about something, critical and blaming never seeing any positives and basically sucking the life out of anyone he had dealings with. Clearly of the old school that thought any mistake needed punishment rather than correction. And was convinced of his arguments because anyone who disagreed with him must be mistaken. He was even capable of making up nonsense in order to throw more ire out.



Pretty sure he reminds me of someone but I can’t think who.

Maybe if I just don’t think about it my subconscious will joe my memory.

 

[SlovSam]

Did he no tell folk who weren't getting a renewed contract early? Also he said he'd rather play the kids rather than the seniors cos they we're playing gash?

I thought that's what I said but I think you are totally right.

I still can't fathom his mindset. Players live a tenuous existence from each two year contract to the next and it would have been the perfect motivation to say lets get as high up the league as possible and we will assess contracts at the end of the season.

Then at least there would be a carrot and a stick but instead the ones leaving didnae gie a fk and apart from some professional pride why should they.

Nobody put their body on the line for the Hamilton equaliser that's for sure.

I remember Cummings breaking through and Alex Harris being rushed back prematurely and that useless lump Handling was in and out not that he was Butchers boy.

"Backpass" and Butcher really were a complete disaster.

 

[numptyploom]

Yes, that sounds familiar. Seemed to be angry a lot. Or just frustrated.
Always fulminating about something, critical and blaming never seeing any positives and basically sucking the life out of anyone he had dealings with. Clearly of the old school that thought any mistake needed punishment rather than correction. And was convinced of his arguments because anyone who disagreed with him must be mistaken. He was even capable of making up nonsense in order to throw more ire out.



Pretty sure he reminds me of someone but I can’t think who.

Maybe if I just don’t think about it my subconscious will joe my memory.

Freudian misspelling?

 

[nabser]

I think he offered to resign twice before it was finally accepted. I'm in a minority, but I think Pats biggest failing was not having enough faith in his own ability.

Pat Fenlon only speaks good of Hibernian,he was over to see us win The Holy Trail and although club invited him over for it he went on a supporters bus

 

[Egan Number 6]

Pat Fenlon only speaks good of Hibernian,he was over to see us win The Holy Trail and although club invited him over for it he went on a supporters bus

A gentleman and he really got Hibs. Met him a few times and talked about the Hibs. He framed a letter previously that I had written to him about the club history and about my Grandad's time with the Hibs up on the wall of his office.

 

[FTJT]

Hughes and Mixu both look a little premature in hindsight. Of course, it's not always easy to say whether an uptick in form after a sacking is because of the sacking or because of reversion to the mean - but in both, the club seemed pretty healthy pretty swiftly after they left rather than needing major surgery.

Whereas I liked Fenlon a fair bit, but I feel he carries a real share of blame for that relegation.

 

[Hibee Kev]

Fenlon packed the team with English lower league duds (?) then Butcher came in and told them they were duds and would be getting emptied with half a season still to play ??‍

There was some chat I remember about possibly sacking Butcher prior to the Killie game, but the consensus was he’d got us in this mess and he could get us out of it.