Ukraine.

[jetsam1]

The excuse from Russia of the West 'closing' in and threatening its borders is garbage as you state but they have made a huge error in underestimating the Ukranians will to fight and the effectiveness of modern weapons.
The Xbox point is valid in context as you have all of these statistics being churned out and NOBODY knows their authenticity NOBODY. Ukrainian people are displaced over Europe now and as for the number of vehicles destroyed, soldiers killed, missiles fired etc no chance they know these and the stats are being used for legitimising reports/stories and in some cases sensationalism.
Tayside Hibee mentioned the Gulf - we still have no idea how many Iraqis died in that conflict and that was 30 years ago.

I still think in a historical context the Falklands War is still too close for real assessment and objectivity. But that might just be me!!

It is just humans have been in this situation many times before and this scenario playing out has been seen many times so we can make some judgements at a strategic level. Of course I fully agree stats and reported losses are unlikely to be accurate as on the ground they cannot be fully verified. But Russian tactics are known from Syria and Chechnia as in they target civilian infrastructure to break morale. There are far too many reports and pictures and international journalists actually killed that the damage must be extensive. I also don't think the Russian commanders fancy sending their infantry into street fighting hence the use of artillary.

I think with social media and the internet as a mature tool Zelenskiy is fighting the war with PR as well, winning certainly as frankly what comes out of Russia is laughably ridiculous and patent BS. I really do not know how Lavrov can keep a straight face. There is nothing that we havn't seen before her and the trajectory is unlikley to be wildly different.

Agreed on the way the Russians have comported themselves, either they are that awful at logistics and basic planning or they realy were expecting it to be a parade through Kiev with adoring crowds? After watching the USA and UK etc for the last 20 years they didn't learn much. But then kleptocratic corruption has an insidious effect on all levels I suppose.

Yes all this is happening just one border away from me and depending how Putin escalates (or not) overspill is always a possibility. Not really approving of soldiers messing around about Nuclear power plants for example........

 

[BonScott64]

I still think in a historical context the Falklands War is still too close for real assessment and objectivity. But that might just be me!!

It is just humans have been in this situation many times before and this scenario playing out has been seen many times so we can make some judgements at a strategic level. Of course I fully agree stats and reported losses are unlikely to be accurate as on the ground they cannot be fully verified. But Russian tactics are known from Syria and Chechnia as in they target civilian infrastructure to break morale. There are far too many reports and pictures and international journalists actually killed that the damage must be extensive. I also don't think the Russian commanders fancy sending their infantry into street fighting hence the use of artillary.

I think with social media and the internet as a mature tool Zelenskiy is fighting the war with PR as well, winning certainly as frankly what comes out of Russia is laughably ridiculous and patent BS. I really do not know how Lavrov can keep a straight face. There is nothing that we havn't seen before her and the trajectory is unlikley to be wildly different.

Agreed on the way the Russians have comported themselves, either they are that awful at logistics and basic planning or they realy were expecting it to be a parade through Kiev with adoring crowds? After watching the USA and UK etc for the last 20 years they didn't learn much. But then kleptocratic corruption has an insidious effect on all levels I suppose.

Yes all this is happening just one border away from me and depending how Putin escalates (or not) overspill is always a possibility. Not really approving of soldiers messing around about Nuclear power plants for example......

Believe me, you don't want squaddies from any country fiddling with anything remotely nuclear

 

[jetsam1]

Believe me, you don't want squaddies from any country fiddling with anything remotely nuclear

What scared me is that there were reports of Russian soldiers "digging in" at Chernobyl. If true that either shows callousness towards the troops or no one actually knew what they were dealing with....

My only military experience is an Admiralty Interview Board when I was 17 and trying to be an officer. Getting shouted at by a Royal marines Sergeant because you didn't move quickly enough was quite the experience....

My Father in Law was in the Hugarian army during the 60s and 70s and served alongside Russian troops. They were very happy to not be Russian troops by the end of it as the treatment was inhumane. They were living in luxury by comparison. Not trusted by the Soviets however, unlikely to open fire on civilians post 1956.

Some of the stories are pretty terrifying about what was going on at the height of the Cold War.

 

[jetsam1]

One day I will learn to slow down with this keyboard as I kep misng lettrs off.....

 

[BonScott64]

What scared me is that there were reports of Russian soldiers "digging in" at Chernobyl. If true that either shows callousness towards the troops or no one actually knew what they were dealing with....

My only military experience is an Admiralty Interview Board when I was 17 and trying to be an officer. Getting shouted at by a Royal marines Sergeant because you didn't move quickly enough was quite the experience....

My Father in Law was in the Hugarian army during the 60s and 70s and served alongside Russian troops. They were very happy to not be Russian troops by the end of it as the treatment was inhumane. They were living in luxury by comparison. Not trusted by the Soviets however, unlikely to open fire on civilians post 1956.

Some of the stories are pretty terrifying about what was going on at the height of the Cold War.

In Iraq/Kuwait when the Iraqis retreated they sacked and destroyed lots of infrastructure I'm pretty sure Russia will do the same if they have to pull out. I remember help clear the Basra Highway of destroyed military and civilian vehicles - ranging from tanks to Ferraris - the latter looted from Kuwait. As well as vehicles and corpses, tvs, furniture, fridges, clothes, sporting equipment etc was crammed into trucks stolen as booty.

 

[Davy]

Some good points, just don't get me started on NI...

I'm with you there...not a discussion I want

 

[Davy]

In talk of Nazis and nationalism I noticed a report today when Russians asked children in Kherson who their Father was, they replied "Stepan Bandera" much to the annoyance of the Russians. Who is this guy? I looked up and suffice to say he is a very controversial figure who wanted to restore Ukranian sovereignty and courted Nazi Germany, however Germany would not recognise Ukraine's independence. He was imprisoned by Russia but Ukraine fought a war of independence. Now the issue with Stepan was he hated the Poles and particularly Jews (least that is what I read so far). This of course caused an issue with nationalists and Zelensky last year as Zelensky was seen to not be picking sides in the national debate to recognise in a greater way Stepan. In fact it said Zelensky's poll was down as low as 19% Now of course his rating is way higher than this now, but the issue of Banderas may now become greater in that not only is Zelensky a Jew, but the Poles have been perhaps the greatest supporter of Ukraine during this conflict and surely put to be the enmity between the countries which is at lease decades old. But will the supporters of Stepan realise the contradiction as they play down this part of history and re-write it? I have only just read about this so I am certainly no expert and what I have seen is that there is no one size fits all when it comes to political ideals, so 2 and do not always make 4, eg having been taught Stepan was the Ftaher of Ukraine does not necessarily make every kid a nazi. If anyone knows more than me then do let me know your thoughts. I sincerely hope though that the nationalism in Ukraine continues to be one of independence for Ukraine but solidarity with Europe whether as part of EU or a trading partner/democratic country

 

[Davy]

This is where Russia have been trying to cross on pontoon bridges, several have crossed then got caught in no mans land

 

[GORDONSMITH7]

This is where Russia have been trying to cross on pontoon bridges, several have crossed then got caught in no mans land

FFS Davy could you not have got coverage of this from any of the other plentiful news outlets?

BIG G

 

[Davy]

FFS Davy could you not have got coverage of this from any of the other plentiful news outlets?

BIG G

Didn't even look..just saw you tube

 

[Rocky]

No sure why the Ukraine thread is locked but thought this clip from Russian state TV was interesting. Wonder how it was received by the viewers.

 

[moathibby]

Might watch it later.

 

[moathibby]

The other thread 'locked'.Hope it's nothing serious,well nothing Bounce serious.

 

[Zab]

No sure why the Ukraine thread is locked but thought this clip from Russian state TV was interesting. Wonder how it was received by the viewers.

No sure, unlocked it and merged your new thread back into the main one

 

[Davy]

I thought someone got offended and cut it short. Ah well I enjoyed the rest but here goes...by the way Rocky that was a very interesting interview and there are two theories. One is the guy is a realist and not very scared of Putin silencing him, the other is he has been allowed to do the interview because Putin is basically looking for a reason to give to the Russian people for not achieving all their goals, or at least for the amount of deaths. The guy though does have previous for telling things as they are.


UK are looking to send long range weapons. This could still be seen as defensive as many missiles are being shot at Ukraine from Russia, Belarus and the Black sea. That said I think it is obvious that Ukraine will be given weapons to take the fight to Russians. The package is worth £1.3b

USA have another $40b allocated for weapons for Ukraine

The first trial of a Russian soldier has begun. He is around 21 and shot a 62 year old man. He claims he was ordered to or he would be shot and he asked forgiveness from the man's widow. Though he said he did not expect her to give it. She said she felt a bit sorry for him but could not offer forgiveness. She faced his in court and asked "who did you (Russia) come to save me from? Was it my husband?

Around 50 settlements in Donetsk and Luhansk (the areas they say they are liberating) we hit by shells today alone. At least 8 civilians are known to have died.

In the past 24 hrs the united forces have destroyed
8 tanks
14 armoured combat vehicles
6 automative equipment
1 Orlan-10 UAV

operational east report
40 Personnel
2 tanks
2 APC

USA say Finland and Sweden meet all the criteria for joining NATO, Turkey say they will not support this as they harbour terrorists

Not all of the Azov regiment have left the steel works. Probably as there are calls from the Russian public to execute them or imprison them for life. Kaline; the deputy commander has released a video stating they are still operating

Ukraine through sponsored funding managed to buy 100 sets of bulletproof vests, helmets and night vision goggles mainly Israeli made.

In the territories of Kharkiv 56 people have asked for psychological help. Recorded crimes were including...
Two boys 10 year old raped
triplets 9 year old girls raped in front of their Mother. The girls have severe genital injuries and the Mother is in a severe state of shock
A 9 month old girl was raped with a candle in front of her Mother
A one year old boy raped by two me, died
A 2 year old girl raped by 2 men
67 and 78 year old men raped


The court has given permission to arrest former prime minister Yanukovych for using 3 helicopters to transport 20 people from Ukraine to Russia on Feb 23rd 2014

24.5k food parcels were didtributed in two districts of Kiev

Italy have produced a 4 point plan for peace which would involve ceasefire, withdraw to agreed lines, entry to the EU for Ukraine but not NATO, agreement on the Donbass and Crimea and a new multi-lateral treaty for peace and security where Europe provide arms for control and conflict prevention

Zelensky stated Russia would always be a threat and it would have to consider the format of security.

 

[moathibby]

It's not all good news stories over here-https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/may/17/ho...

 

[moathibby]

Thought I'd copied the script down correctly.The story is from the Guardian 3 days ago.News has come through that a couple coming from the Ukraine have been left homeless as they have fallen out with their hosts.These stories are going to become more common place unfortunately.

 

[Doc Shrink]

@Rocky I watched that video at the time, that female is an evil wee harridan…… she wants the whole world to go up in flames I reckon….. anyway there is now a follow up interview with the same guy who has obviously been told to rein it in.
Takes quite a different and more Russki positive view.

 

[Davy]

Thought I'd copied the script down correctly.The story is from the Guardian 3 days ago.News has come through that a couple coming from the Ukraine have been left homeless as they have fallen out with their hosts.These stories are going to become more common place unfortunately.

There have been a lot like that. One family arrived to be text by their hosts to say the hosts have left the country on holiday and no further details I suppose it's a bit like a puppy for Christmas. People see a sad story and want to help u til the reality hits home. Just because someone is a refugee doesn't mean they will be the kind of person you want in your house.And as for calls to house all the refugees from all over the world, people perhaps to fail to understand the homeless situation we already have
Hotels might sound a good option but they are horrendously overpriced

Most of the homeless hotels and bed and breakfasts are owned by one very rich guy who lives in a mansion in Silverknowes

 

[moathibby]

There are plenty of empty properties in the UK,homelessness shouldn't be a problem in the UK.