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The Struggle To Get Players In

Sir Shrink

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Personally I'm not questioning the board or their ambition or whatever, Im questioning the day to day managers management, and the fact that they have got us in a position that they themselves described as unnacceptable and were meant to avoid.

As it stands, how many permanent players do we have for next season? Between temps and out of contract there can't be much quality left on the books. Strange position to be in after 5 years of planning.
I'm not disagreeing.
It's the constant denigration of the Board - the 'lack of ambition' and suggestions of malfeasance that are levelled.
Total nonsense.

We spend the money we have - the accounts show it (@SlovSam agrees!) so all the crap about 'not investing' is just crap!

The point is we sometimes waste our resources - we appoint managers that don't work out...... players that don't perform.......

That's life I suppose.

I've appointed staff that didn't come up to expectations - bet you loads on here have too.
But we didn't do it deliberately.

Anyway.

I'm off now.
 

Al Catraz

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I'm not disagreeing.
It's the constant denigration of the Board - the 'lack of ambition' and suggestions of malfeasance that are levelled.
Total nonsense.

We spend the money we have - the accounts show it (@SlovSam agrees!) so all the crap about 'not investing' is just crap!

The point is we sometimes waste our resources - we appoint managers that don't work out...... players that don't perform.......

That's life I suppose.

I've appointed staff that didn't come up to expectations - bet you loads on here have too.
But we didn't do it deliberately.

Anyway.

I'm off now.
Night night :sm127:
 

Central_Hibee

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I'm not disagreeing.
It's the constant denigration of the Board - the 'lack of ambition' and suggestions of malfeasance that are levelled.
Total nonsense.

We spend the money we have - the accounts show it (@SlovSam agrees!) so all the crap about 'not investing' is just crap!

The point is we sometimes waste our resources - we appoint managers that don't work out...... players that don't perform.......

That's life I suppose.

I've appointed staff that didn't come up to expectations - bet you loads on here have too.
But we didn't do it deliberately.

Anyway.

I'm off now.
Agreed with the board stuff, I've no doubt the money is getting spent.

Agree with you on staffing too. When a manager/head coach doesn't work out he gets the sack/suspended pending investigation then mutual consented. I'm just wondering if maybe the managers manager needs looked at for allowing the squad to get in the state it has, after 4.5 years of investment and hard work.

Anyway good night everyone. Maybe things will look more positive in the morning.
 

Leith1975

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I quite happy that we’ve managed to bring in a few players, but I’m a little bit worried that in the summer we’re going to be back to a very similar position as we were this season.
We needed to replace three quality midfielders at the beginning of the season and it was always going to be tough to do that in one window. We’ve had two now and it’s going to take a third. Mallan stepping up and showing the sort of form he did in the second half last week would make things a bit easier. Allan coming in is a huge boost.
 

Smurf

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Positive spin?
Maybe. Compared to the folk who just want to put the boot in, then definitely.

The 'ambition in the boardroom' is just words. Totally meaningless.
Do you really think the Board members aren't wanting Hibs to succeed? Seriously?
Or that the money is squirrelled away as some would have us all believe?

I agree that Hibs need more cash in - HSL tried to do that but was undermined. The Board should seek other income streams, and they haven't been great at doing so. But they can't produce benefactors out a hat can they?
I'm not bothered about Lennon leaving. He's just another coach who came and went. Another will be along in a minute.

I don't understand the fixation on the Board - or the hatred towards the folk on it.

Tell me then, because I'm not getting the point.
What would an ambitious Board do?
I don't think this boards sets demands and expectations. I don't think it provides leadership. I don't think it inspires those within or outside of the club. They communicate poorly internally and externally. I think that there's very much a "us and them" mentality. They are only the custodians of our club when it suits them for example season ticket renewal time. Then they go back into reclusive mode.

I think the ownership and senior management of the Gunts approaches things differently. They have demands and expectations. Number one quite obviously to do better than us. They are fuckin obsessed by us. Does our ownership and senior management perceive them likewise? I doubt it. They treat it like Gunts. Our mentality is much more detached. That lot who I despise really hurt upstairs when we do better than them. Is our lot feeling likewise this season? I doubt it.

So for me ambition isn't just about spending money we don't have. It's about a mentality. It's a mentality Neil Lennon had. And his mentality was never going to be anymore than a short term fit with our board.

For his replacement I doubt our board will want too much of a presence. They'll prefer a rookie with a point to prove. Someone not too challenging. With this board it's calculated, steady as you go.

I've moaned like fuck since they constructively dismissed Neil Lennon. And yesterday's window has disappointed me. I fear it's left us in no position of strength for serious challenge within the top six and the Scottish Cup. However, that's me and my moaning. It is what it is. Their next managerial appointment will be interesting. I suspect we are back into the mid table mediocrity that this owner and board have averaged for nearly 30 years. I hope I'm wrong. Time will tell.

But it's obvious the Bounce now isn't a place to always be too honest with your feelings and fears for the club we all love. So I'll keep them to myself. In the meantime I look forward to seeing us in action tomorrow up against Aberdeen hoping we kick on. That's what we all want. And I include the board in that. I just don't think they've the mentality to really deliver it.

So "empty positivity" it is until the summer....
 

numptyploom

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Let's work with what we've got for now !
Get the right management team in soon ! Hopefully not the cheap option but the right one for the long term.
Players will come and go for various reasons. It might be good sell on value or poor fit for the team.
The right management is more critical !
Lets use this window to consolidate, and set things up for the summer transfer window for new management and their choice of players .
But let's do everything early doors this time!!
Business done, players in, pre season well organised and players ready to play!
 

aggie

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So for me ambition isn't just about spending money we don't have. It's about a mentality. It's a mentality Neil Lennon had. And his mentality was never going to be anymore than a short term fit with our board.
Can I ask (with respect), do you think that Lennon's fabled "mentality" was a) one along the lines of Steve Clarke which says "I'm going to get the best I can get within the budget we have and coach them into overperformance", or b) one which said "I want this level of player, and if you can't afford it, then you don't 'match my ambition'"?

I've moaned like fuck since they constructively dismissed Neil Lennon.
Constructive dismissal, K? I'm going to assume you have evidence for this?
 

Smurf

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Can I ask (with respect), do you think that Lennon's fabled "mentality" was a) one along the lines of Steve Clarke which says "I'm going to get the best I can get within the budget we have and coach them into overperformance", or b) one which said "I want this level of player, and if you can't afford it, then you don't 'match my ambition'"?



Constructive dismissal, K? I'm going to assume you have evidence for this?
I think Steve Clarke is a top coach. Did it for years at Chelsea and Liverpool. He inherited a shambles at Kilmarnock and as you say coached them into overperformance. Could Neil Lennon have done that? I doubt it in all honesty. However, expectations are much lower at Kilmarnock than Hibs. Could Steve Clarke replicate it at Hibs? I'm not so sure. And I've specifically not answered point B because there's no real evidence to suggest that was Neil Lennon's way at Hibs!

"Constructive dismissal" isn't perhaps the wisest choice of words because I have no evidence. However, I'm not alone in thinking that the club wanted him out. However, as we know they didn't sack him. Maybe that really wouldn't have gone down well.... So IMO they engineered something else. Perhaps I'm alone in thinking that's constructively dismissing someone....
 

stairways_second_coming

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Between the last two windows what a huge investment from the board, wages the bottom 7 spenders in the spl could only dream of.

If the majority of fans on this website had control of our purse strings we'd be fucked within a year. Right looking forward to tomorrow's game GGTTH
 

NW

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I don't think this boards sets demands and expectations. I don't think it provides leadership. I don't think it inspires those within or outside of the club. They communicate poorly internally and externally. I think that there's very much a "us and them" mentality. They are only the custodians of our club when it suits them for example season ticket renewal time. Then they go back into reclusive mode.

I think the ownership and senior management of the Gunts approaches things differently. They have demands and expectations. Number one quite obviously to do better than us. They are fuckin obsessed by us. Does our ownership and senior management perceive them likewise? I doubt it. They treat it like Gunts. Our mentality is much more detached. That lot who I despise really hurt upstairs when we do better than them. Is our lot feeling likewise this season? I doubt it.

So for me ambition isn't just about spending money we don't have. It's about a mentality. It's a mentality Neil Lennon had. And his mentality was never going to be anymore than a short term fit with our board.

For his replacement I doubt our board will want too much of a presence. They'll prefer a rookie with a point to prove. Someone not too challenging. With this board it's calculated, steady as you go.

I've moaned like fuck since they constructively dismissed Neil Lennon. And yesterday's window has disappointed me. I fear it's left us in no position of strength for serious challenge within the top six and the Scottish Cup. However, that's me and my moaning. It is what it is. Their next managerial appointment will be interesting. I suspect we are back into the mid table mediocrity that this owner and board have averaged for nearly 30 years. I hope I'm wrong. Time will tell.

But it's obvious the Bounce now isn't a place to always be too honest with your feelings and fears for the club we all love. So I'll keep them to myself. In the meantime I look forward to seeing us in action tomorrow up against Aberdeen hoping we kick on. That's what we all want. And I include the board in that. I just don't think they've the mentality to really deliver it.

So "empty positivity" it is until the summer....
Smurf, I feel very much the same. Drive and desire and leadership should start at the top.
 

Jack

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I’m sure Rod said around 10% of ST holders don’t show for each game,it’s a big problem in the FF lower.
It's an optical illusion :-)

When we have 8,000 season ticket holders and 10% don't turn up there's so many empty seats you don't notice.

When we're close to a full house and nearly 2,000 don't turn up it's glaringly obvious there's empty seats.

There's issues with the FF we're all aware of and to add to these tomorrow I'm not sure if I would take any kids in my charge along in fecking Baltic conditions. I'm sure there will be quite a few adults thinking it's too freezing too!
 

Sir Shrink

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I don't think this boards sets demands and expectations. I don't think it provides leadership. I don't think it inspires those within or outside of the club. They communicate poorly internally and externally. I think that there's very much a "us and them" mentality. They are only the custodians of our club when it suits them for example season ticket renewal time. Then they go back into reclusive mode.

I think the ownership and senior management of the Gunts approaches things differently. They have demands and expectations. Number one quite obviously to do better than us. They are fuckin obsessed by us. Does our ownership and senior management perceive them likewise? I doubt it. They treat it like Gunts. Our mentality is much more detached. That lot who I despise really hurt upstairs when we do better than them. Is our lot feeling likewise this season? I doubt it.

So for me ambition isn't just about spending money we don't have. It's about a mentality. It's a mentality Neil Lennon had. And his mentality was never going to be anymore than a short term fit with our board.

For his replacement I doubt our board will want too much of a presence. They'll prefer a rookie with a point to prove. Someone not too challenging. With this board it's calculated, steady as you go.

I've moaned like fuck since they constructively dismissed Neil Lennon. And yesterday's window has disappointed me. I fear it's left us in no position of strength for serious challenge within the top six and the Scottish Cup. However, that's me and my moaning. It is what it is. Their next managerial appointment will be interesting. I suspect we are back into the mid table mediocrity that this owner and board have averaged for nearly 30 years. I hope I'm wrong. Time will tell.

But it's obvious the Bounce now isn't a place to always be too honest with your feelings and fears for the club we all love. So I'll keep them to myself. In the meantime I look forward to seeing us in action tomorrow up against Aberdeen hoping we kick on. That's what we all want. And I include the board in that. I just don't think they've the mentality to really deliver it.

So "empty positivity" it is until the summer....
Fair enough Smurf – since you had the courtesy to respond, I’ll give you some of my thoughts too, although I don’t expect a lot of folk to agree with them!

My expectations of the Board are different. I remember Rodders being told at an AGM that Hibs should target a top 4 place every year – his response was why shouldn’t we target top spot. Bit of a no win really. The Gunts made some expensive and pish signings, players and coaches – doe the Gunt Board get a kicking for that? Does Anne Budge?
I agree about poor comms from Hibs, (especially Rodders – who hates the PR role quite obviously) and I also agree that the team has been underperforming. But I hold the paid executive responsible for that. And the players. The Board doesn’t sign or coach players, and I think (at last) we may have a consensus that the club actually DOES back managers and spends what it can to do so.
I don’t believe that a Board of unpaid volunteers should be running our club on a day to day basis, or indeed be involved in the football side. Frank and Tracey were given the same ‘power’ as other Board members as I recall it – are they to blame for poor signings or for us parting company with our management team in the middle of the transfer window?
I say these responsibilities lie with the well paid staff charged with the day to day running of the club. The team responsible for identifying and signing players – the Chief Executive who is responsible for running the club, and hiring and firing.
The Board won’t want a ‘rookie’ they will want the best person they can get. Suggesting that they don’t want someone challenging just wrong. Do you think they didn’t realise Neil Lennon would be a bit of a challenge? Or did they show a bit ambition and go for a manager who they thought could drive the club onwards and upwards? If they wanted a ‘yes man’ as many suggest, then Leeann would not have selected Lennon, or her choice would have been knocked back. Lennon is easily the most volatile man in Scottish football.

I’m not happy that we are still very short in depth in the playing pool – but I don’t hold the Board responsible. I hold the football department responsible.

We made a few signings without a manager – good. I hope the signings made will be given a positive reception by most Hibs fans.
I’m sure we all want the same thing – Hibs to be a success.

I don’t think the Board wins honours though – the players and the football department are the ones to do so.

I don’t know what ‘empty positivity’ means – but I suspect I probably disagree with it anyway.
:sm113:
 

Electric Beach Joe

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Fair enough Smurf – since you had the courtesy to respond, I’ll give you some of my thoughts too, although I don’t expect a lot of folk to agree with them!

My expectations of the Board are different. I remember Rodders being told at an AGM that Hibs should target a top 4 place every year – his response was why shouldn’t we target top spot. Bit of a no win really. The Gunts made some expensive and pish signings, players and coaches – doe the Gunt Board get a kicking for that? Does Anne Budge?
I agree about poor comms from Hibs, (especially Rodders – who hates the PR role quite obviously) and I also agree that the team has been underperforming. But I hold the paid executive responsible for that. And the players. The Board doesn’t sign or coach players, and I think (at last) we may have a consensus that the club actually DOES back managers and spends what it can to do so.
I don’t believe that a Board of unpaid volunteers should be running our club on a day to day basis, or indeed be involved in the football side. Frank and Tracey were given the same ‘power’ as other Board members as I recall it – are they to blame for poor signings or for us parting company with our management team in the middle of the transfer window?
I say these responsibilities lie with the well paid staff charged with the day to day running of the club. The team responsible for identifying and signing players – the Chief Executive who is responsible for running the club, and hiring and firing.
The Board won’t want a ‘rookie’ they will want the best person they can get. Suggesting that they don’t want someone challenging just wrong. Do you think they didn’t realise Neil Lennon would be a bit of a challenge? Or did they show a bit ambition and go for a manager who they thought could drive the club onwards and upwards? If they wanted a ‘yes man’ as many suggest, then Leeann would not have selected Lennon, or her choice would have been knocked back. Lennon is easily the most volatile man in Scottish football.

I’m not happy that we are still very short in depth in the playing pool – but I don’t hold the Board responsible. I hold the football department responsible.

We made a few signings without a manager – good. I hope the signings made will be given a positive reception by most Hibs fans.
I’m sure we all want the same thing – Hibs to be a success.

I don’t think the Board wins honours though – the players and the football department are the ones to do so.

I don’t know what ‘empty positivity’ means – but I suspect I probably disagree with it anyway.
:sm113:
You must be the biggest board apologist I have ever come across. I bet if you were a Man Utd fan you would be fanatically defending the Glaziers against a massive swell of public opinion. Your like the boy with his finger in the dyke constantly defending the Hibs board.
Disclaimer.. Dyke as in a wall that holds back water. Not the alleged Lennon/Dempster version
 

Sir Shrink

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You must be the biggest board apologist I have ever come across. I bet if you were a Man Utd fan you would be fanatically defending the Glaziers against a massive swell of public opinion. Your like the boy with his finger in the dyke constantly defending the Hibs board.
Disclaimer.. Dyke as in a wall that holds back water. Not the alleged Lennon/Dempster version
Same old rubbish from you Joe.
I don't apologise for the Board - I hold them accountable for their responsibilities.You obviously think the Board do the jobs of the executive.
You're just an apologist for Leeann.
:sm023:
 

Central_Hibee

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If the board are to blame for anything just now it may just be trusting LD and GCs judgement and 'vision' too much. I'm thinking the last week's events may be a timely wake up call for everyone though. I really hope we haven't spunked a significant amount of the McGinn cash on this assembled squad. If we have ... what a waste.

Also Bruce Langham ... that guy ... who's always skulking about when LD goes on trips to other clubs or Switzerland to sign kamberi etc. What's his story? We never hear from him or about him, but he seems to be enjoying himself.
 

Rocky

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You must be the biggest board apologist I have ever come across. I bet if you were a Man Utd fan you would be fanatically defending the Glaziers against a massive swell of public opinion. Your like the boy with his finger in the dyke constantly defending the Hibs board.
Disclaimer.. Dyke as in a wall that holds back water. Not the alleged Lennon/Dempster version
He's not an apologist, he's a roaster actually. And he's backed up everything he's said with substance - and as a result I agree with pretty much everything he says. My mind is open though and if there's an alternate view that's backed up with substance then I'd 100% consider it. Board attacks tend to substitute noise and condescension for substance though and I'll never shape a view based on those.
 

Jack

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If the board are to blame for anything just now it may just be trusting LD and GCs judgement and 'vision' too much. I'm thinking the last week's events may be a timely wake up call for everyone though. I really hope we haven't spunked a significant amount of the McGinn cash on this assembled squad. If we have ... what a waste.

Also Bruce Langham ... that guy ... who's always skulking about when LD goes on trips to other clubs or Switzerland to sign kamberi etc. What's his story? We never hear from him or about him, but he seems to be enjoying himself.
Drop him a line and ask him.

I'm sure the ex CEO of Aston Villa and Fulham will give you a response.
 

aggie

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You must be the biggest board apologist I have ever come across. I bet if you were a Man Utd fan you would be fanatically defending the Glaziers against a massive swell of public opinion. Your like the boy with his finger in the dyke constantly defending the Hibs board.
Disclaimer.. Dyke as in a wall that holds back water. Not the alleged Lennon/Dempster version
What a load of pish you talk, buddy. The Glazers, via various methods of financial instrument, are actively mortgaging/rinsing that club - your comparison is fatuous rubbish. Furthermore, as the above states, Shrink’s opinion is based on reason. Yours is based on “LENNY IS A WINNER, IT MUST BE THE BOARD”. Lennon has fcuked this season, and I don’t see how anyone can reasonably deny that. And as I’ve said 10,000 times, if being a “winner” means blaming everyone but yourself when things go badly, well you can keep it. The board is not the reason we are in the bottom six and in total disarray on the football side of things; and in fact, if it was anyone but the sainted Lennon, you’d have been screaming at them to pull the trigger yourself.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Central_Hibee

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Drop him a line and ask him.

I'm sure the ex CEO of Aston Villa and Fulham will give you a response.
You mention those as if they are automatically some kind of illustrious qualification. 2 years at Fulham after al fayed took him from a different industry, followed by under 1 year at Villa. Bombed out pretty quickly it would seem.
 
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