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But I can't understand how fans can come to that sort of conclusion after only two league games ? We will surely have a better idea of whether we have got value for money or not once we have at least played all the teams in our league. If we are toiling at that stage and the new players still haven't shown enough, then yes..we can then legitimately criticise the signing policy. I just think it is way too soon at this stage. Remember these players have came from a completely different footballing environment, a different league etc. Most lower league English players who come to play in Scotland are taken aback by the pace of the game up here and how frenetic it is. I think we have to give these guys time to fully adjust. I will be as critical as anyone of things if by say the end of the first quarter of the season we are struggling badly in the league.
Because many fans have seen them play for 10 games, not two. You don't measure their abilities on league games only.
 

Smurf

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Because many fans have seen them play for 10 games, not two. You don't measure their abilities on league games only.
Exactly. A lot of players are signed or not signed on the basis of their performance in a trial game. Therefore, it isn't unreasonable for any fan to make an evaluation of any player after any game and especially 10 when it includes friendlies, competitive cup games and league games.
 

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Because many fans have seen them play for 10 games, not two. You don't measure their abilities on league games only.
You’ve seen Hibs more than me this season, but from what I have seen I don’t think the players (new and existing) are being helped by the tactics at all?
 

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You’ve seen Hibs more than me this season, but from what I have seen I don’t think the players (new and existing) are being helped by the tactics at all?
I agree, the 4 1 1 1 2 1 thing does not work, we are being overan in midfield, our best players are not getting the ball, some other best players are not even getting a start. Frankly almost the whole pre season for me has been a shambles. Our two performances in the league games have underlined that.

Other than pockets of good football v Arbroath in the cup, a reasonable game at Elgin and 10-15 minutes v Dunfermline and Carlisle, its been poor fare.
 

stickyRicky

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But I can't understand how fans can come to that sort of conclusion after only two league games ? We will surely have a better idea of whether we have got value for money or not once we have at least played all the teams in our league. If we are toiling at that stage and the new players still haven't shown enough, then yes..we can then legitimately criticise the signing policy. I just think it is way too soon at this stage. Remember these players have came from a completely different footballing environment, a different league etc. Most lower league English players who come to play in Scotland are taken aback by the pace of the game up here and how frenetic it is. I think we have to give these guys time to fully adjust. I will be as critical as anyone of things if by say the end of the first quarter of the season we are struggling badly in the league.
Great post. Pretty much how i see it. Far to early from the Doom squad or bed wetters. Let us play at least 12-15 games not 2.
 

stickyRicky

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Because many fans have seen them play for 10 games, not two. You don't measure their abilities on league games only.
Judging players on pre season game is foolish imo. They get 45mins in some of them. Mixed squads tae.
 

Jello Biafra

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Judging players on pre season game is foolish imo. They get 45mins in some of them. Mixed squads tae.
Do you trust your instinct, though, SR? If so, what does it tell you? Unfortunately, mine says this is going to be a tough old season with present personnel, tactics and team formations.

I hope I'm wrong, though. Because, at present, it appears that our ten game run last season owed more to the then personnel at the club (i.e. someone else's team), especially the now departed McNulty and Omeonga (sp.?), than to any tactical or motivational genius on the part of PH. And that, allied to the apparent fact that NL had utterly lost the changing room, so the new guy was warmly welcomed, could be argued were the factors responsible for the good run.

This is PH's team. It consists largely of lower English division players who he signed.

As you rightly say, there is a long way to go. And I'm willing to persevere with him for a bit longer, too.

But the present prognosis is not positive. And things need to change for it to improve.
 

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Judging players on pre season game is foolish imo. They get 45mins in some of them. Mixed squads tae.
I don't agree, five of the games were competitive.
 

stickyRicky

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Do you trust your instinct, though, SR? If so, what does it tell you? Unfortunately, mine says this is going to be a tough old season with present personnel, tactics and team formations.

I hope I'm wrong, though. Because, at present, it appears that our ten game run last season owed more to the then personnel at the club (i.e. someone else's team), especially the now departed McNulty and Omeonga (sp.?), than to any tactical or motivational genius on the part of PH. And that, allied to the apparent fact that NL had utterly lost the changing room, so the new guy was warmly welcomed, could be argued were the factors responsible for the good run.

This is PH's team. It consists largely of lower English division players who he signed.

As you rightly say, there is a long way to go. And I'm willing to persevere with him for a bit longer, too.

But the present prognosis is not positive. And things need to change for it to improve.
I'm positive on our future. But as i said real judgement will come after 12-15 games not a hand full of pre season and league cup (extended pre season).

I think McNulty and Omenonga we're never gonna happen, well out our reach financially. We had to rebuild again thanks to our previous manager bringing in so many loans and duff players (Nelom Mavrias)

The player's we have now that are ours apart from 2 excites me. If they perform they will be baught by other clubs and Hibs as a club financially will grow.
 

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I'm positive on our future. But as i said real judgement will come after 12-15 games not a hand full of pre season and league cup (extended pre season).

I think McNulty and Omenonga we're never gonna happen, well out our reach financially. We had to rebuild again thanks to our previous manager bringing in so many loans and duff players (Nelom Mavrias)

The player's we have now that are ours apart from 2 excites me. If they perform they will be baught by other clubs and Hibs as a club financially will grow.

Hope you're right. I really, really do. Starting tomorrow.
 

bigmanandy

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The thing is everything we are saying about Heckinbottom all his previous clubs supporters where saying, now thats worrying
 

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A full round of league fixtures, plus the intervening cup games (of which I hope there’s a few), and if we’re not 4th or higher OR seen a significant upturn in performances then I’d say it’s time to get rid of PHB. Trying to keep my powder dry for just now but it’s difficult!
 

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A full round of league fixtures, plus the intervening cup games (of which I hope there’s a few), and if we’re not 4th or higher OR seen a significant upturn in performances then I’d say it’s time to get rid of PHB. Trying to keep my powder dry for just now but it’s difficult!
Yeah I agree. Signs are bad but let's not forget his long unbeaten run and - fair's fair - the team's significant achievement in getting into the to 6 and finishing above Gunts, a result which very few would have predicted and all would have grabbed with both hands at the start of his tenure. Can't really blame him for current some performances but not give him credit for others.

Will he produce a similar run again? I really doubt it, but it's not completely impossible. I think we should wait and see, make sure, and once we're sure get rid if necessary.
 

Greenpower

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I don't agree, five of the games were competitive.
Spot on. One of only two trophies we can win.

I’ve never come away from a game under hecky and thought wow that was brilliant.

Obviously beating the gorgie tramps was good but the ripped us apart the first 30 mins
 

Greenmachine

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Because many fans have seen them play for 10 games, not two. You don't measure their abilities on league games only.
I accept what you are saying and you see more games than I do, but at the end of the day we won our section in the League Cup winning three games and drawing one. Yes I know we were up against part-time lower league teams and drawing with Stirling Albion was a crap result but many other top flight clubs suffered crap results and performances in the League Cup sections and some went out altogether. Tomorrow as a seeded club we face a Championship team at home because we did what we had to do in the League Cup section....and with an important goals contribution from the new players as well. IMO rightly or wrongly Heckingbottom treated these games like pre-season matches but he also knew we had to win them as they were competitive cup games. We done that. We then beat an improved St Mirren at home in the first game and though far from a vintage performance from Hibs, we should really have won by 3 or 4 goals. Last Sundays game was clearly a disaster, however we were playing a vastly improved huns team with the bit between their teeth at their own midden. Losing 4 goals in the last 16 minutes is completely unacceptable against any team, and the manager has to take a fair amount of responsibility for that. Going down to 10 men should have seen us at least organise properly and stop the flow of traffic towards our goal, but then again we didn't have a midfield player available to properly shore up that area of the park. My one real early criticism of the summer business so far is the lack of a proper ball winner in midfield. IMO you really do need at least one. Players who will fight and win the ball back.

As I said if we are struggling badly after the first round of league games (or if we get knocked out the cup by Morton tomorrow !!) then I will be as critical as anyone on here.
 

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