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The fine lines of success and failure

Greenmachine

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When the final whistle blew on Saturday a big cheer went up, and the players who had struggled big time throughout the match came over to applaud the fans, and the fans applauded the players and everyone went home or to the pub happy and pleased to have got three points.

What would have happened if Scott Allan hadn't scored with five minutes to go ?....there would have been loud booing at the final whistle and the fans would have left disgruntled, shouting at the players and the manager, arguing with each other, and slaughtering every player on show and the manager. Hibs.net would have crashed again, Twitter and social media would have been filled with venom towards anything to do with the club...Ron Gordon, Leeanne, Hecky etc...and there would have been numerous predictions of a bottom 6 finish and a terrible season ahead.

Said it before and i'll say it again. It's all about winning. Fans will forgive anything if we have won and got three points. Everything becomes positive and the next match is looked upon with confidence because the last result was a win. If the game had finished a 0-0 draw against St Mirren as it had looked very likely for most of the game, the whole atmosphere around the club would be different. Thank the lord for Scott Allan. Fine lines between success and failure.
 
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joethehibby

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When the final whistle blew on Saturday a big cheer went up, and the players who had struggled big time came over to applaud the fans, and the fans applauded the players all happy and pleased to have got three points.

What would have happened if Scott Allan hadn't scored with five minutes to go ?....there would have been loud booing at the final whistle and the fans would have left disgruntled, shouting at the players and the manager, arguing with each other, and slaughtering every player on show and the manager. Hibs.net would have crashed again, Twitter and social media would have been filled with venom towards anything to do with the club...Ron Gordon, Leeanne, Hecky etc...and there would have been numerous predictions of a bottom 6 finish and a terrible season ahead.

Said it before and i'll say it again. It's all about winning. Fans will forgive anything if we have won and got three points. Everything becomes positive and the next match is looked upon with confidence because the last result was a win. If the game had finished a 0-0 draw against St Mirren as it had looked very likely for most of the game, the whole atmosphere around the club would be different. Thank the lord for Scott Allan. Fine lines between success and failure.
If only we could play the Hibernian way AND get results . We’d all be happy . I remember the argument last year about playing with flair versus grinding out wins .
 

Sir Shrink

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If only we could play the Hibernian way AND get results . We’d all be happy . I remember the argument last year about playing with flair versus grinding out wins .

You got that right.

Getting three points takes away from the pain of bleeding eyes, but if (Sauzee forbid) Hibs were to regress to the point that we were emulating the Gunts hoofball simply to avoid defeat and hope for the odd win, then the crowds would soon vote with their feet.
 

Greenmachine

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You got that right.

Getting three points takes away from the pain of bleeding eyes, but if (Sauzee forbid) Hibs were to regress to the point that we were emulating the Gunts hoofball simply to avoid defeat and hope for the odd win, then the crowds would soon vote with their feet.
Agree with that. However what do you think would happen if we went though the whole season playing a studied, methodical style of percentage football without much flair, but we managed to grind out wins most week-ends and ended up third or second, winning the majority of derbies, and winning a cup ? Would the majority of Hibs fans be happy with that ?

My theory is that practically every club in the world would like to win all their games playing open, exciting and expansive football. However the reality of life is that the vast majority of clubs do not have and could not afford the players of the quality required to do that. Therefore all clubs individually find a way to win football matches...a way that suits the players they do have. That way everyone is "happy" and the manager stays in a job.
 

Sir Shrink

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Agree with that. However what do you think would happen if we went though the whole season playing a studied, methodical style of percentage football without much flair, but we managed to grind out wins most week-ends and ended up third or second, winning the majority of derbies, and winning a cup ? Would the majority of Hibs fans be happy with that ?
I'd guess so.
To be honest, I'd have put up with pretty much anything ( pretty much, but not all!) just to see 21st May 2016.

However, I'm not sure that the 'regulars/diehards' would be so regular. We all want to see Hibs succeed, but if the eye bleeding shite at the Guntery became our standard then I think there would be quite a lot who would 'spectate' by radio or 'justback' rather than follow the team so diligently.


My theory is that practically every club in the world would like to win all their games playing open, exciting and expansive football. However the reality of life is that the vast majority of clubs do not have and could not afford the players of the quality required to do that. Therefore all clubs individually find a way to win football matches...a way that suits the players they do have. That way everyone is "happy" and the manager stays in a job.
I'm not totally in agreement with this. I see where you're coming from, particularly regarding affordability and the gulf between Sky funded teams/leagues and the rest. That's beyond dispute.
But if you take Potter as the ultimate example, he doesn't 'find a way to suit the players they have' he sources players to play the way he wants. Big neanderthals who run about crashing into the opposition yet fall over as soon as touched. The expression 'a Levein type of player' immediately conjures up a thuggish limited type of spoiler.

There are some clubs that just play anti-football.
 

HibeeZab

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I think the squad are trying to play the right way, we’re looking to retain the ball and create chances with through balls which is lovely to watch when it works. What needs to improve is the tempo both in and out of possession, and our chance conversion.
 

Hibs1337

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When the final whistle blew on Saturday a big cheer went up, and the players who had struggled big time throughout the match came over to applaud the fans, and the fans applauded the players and everyone went home or to the pub happy and pleased to have got three points.

What would have happened if Scott Allan hadn't scored with five minutes to go ?....there would have been loud booing at the final whistle and the fans would have left disgruntled, shouting at the players and the manager, arguing with each other, and slaughtering every player on show and the manager. Hibs.net would have crashed again, Twitter and social media would have been filled with venom towards anything to do with the club...Ron Gordon, Leeanne, Hecky etc...and there would have been numerous predictions of a bottom 6 finish and a terrible season ahead.

Said it before and i'll say it again. It's all about winning. Fans will forgive anything if we have won and got three points. Everything becomes positive and the next match is looked upon with confidence because the last result was a win. If the game had finished a 0-0 draw against St Mirren as it had looked very likely for most of the game, the whole atmosphere around the club would be different. Thank the lord for Scott Allan. Fine lines between success and failure.
Agreed, that’s is football and sport in general though.
I think we will tread that fine line quite often this season tbh, not being negative, just being a realist.
 

PILTONSTANY

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If you watched the highlights as a neutral you’d think Hibs looked good and should’ve won 4-0,yet most Hibbys thought we looked gash.
Sometimes we’re our own worst critics.
 

Green Sleeves

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If you watched the highlights as a neutral you’d think Hibs looked good and should’ve won 4-0,yet most Hibbys thought we looked gash.
Sometimes we’re our own worst critics.
Allan hit the post. Doidge's 2 doidgy sitters. Good goal disallowed. 5-0 Hibs.
 

1875

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Allan hit the post. Doidge's 2 doidgy sitters. Good goal disallowed. 5-0 Hibs.
2 great saves from Rocky and a bad miss fi a header, 5-3 Hibs.
 

Hammi

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I dont think we played bad football? We just tried to walk it into the net far, far too often.

Plenty times we got beyond the full backs, onto the byline and tried to cut it across, on another day we'd have had more, just from those chances alone.
 

Power

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Agree with the comments around tempo, drive and energy.

It feels to me that the fine line has thinned over the years and it really can be extreme at times. There has been occasions over the last few years when the team has been booed off at half time despite 0-0 or drawing, which I entirely disagree with, but in fairness to that - we nearly always turn up in the second half.

The club needs to make sure it works towards the marginal gains that will make us sit on the right side of the line most of the time.

The Rollercoaster we all go on will probably follow that fine line graph too 🔀
 

hibbiemacfie

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Second half improvements are nothing new with Hibs. 1972 League Cup Turnbull's Tornadoes away to Airdrieonians 2 down at half - time. Hibs score SIX in the second half. John Brownlie scored 2, Arthur Duncan got a hat - trick. Those were the days!
 
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Sheldrake07

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I wonder if the frustration needs to be considered in the context of Calderwood, Butcher and Fenlon. Lots of us sat through that thinking it must get better but it didn't and we weren't entertained and ultimately were disappointed and let down. And now we see their shadows lurking at every corner.

I want to be entertained. I realise that may not be possible for a full 90 minutes and that at times it may be necessary to play a more pragmatic style in order to assert ourselves. But I need to see that the team is capable of playing with creativity and passion and that there is an intention to do so.

At the moment, based on Saturday, I am more agnostic and hopeful than convinced.

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HibeeZab

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I wonder if the frustration needs to be considered in the context of Calderwood, Butcher and Fenlon. Lots of us sat through that thinking it must get better but it didn't and we weren't entertained and ultimately were disappointed and let down. And now we see their shadows lurking at every corner.

I want to be entertained. I realise that may not be possible for a full 90 minutes and that at times it may be necessary to play a more pragmatic style in order to assert ourselves. But I need to see that the team is capable of playing with creativity and passion and that there is an intention to do so.

At the moment, based on Saturday, I am more agnostic and hopeful than convinced.

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There were enough reverse passes, one-twos and nutmegs on Saturday to suggest the creativity is there. Didn’t seem to be any lack of passion either. I don’t think it’s far away from clicking.
 

Hammi

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There were enough reverse passes, one-twos and nutmegs on Saturday to suggest the creativity is there. Didn’t seem to be any lack of passion either. I don’t think it’s far away from clicking.
This.

Offensively, we didnt play bad football, I'm struggling to see that part of the issue.
For me, the worst part was that we werent willing to shoot and over passing the ball.
Defensively there were time when we could've and should've pressured and won the ball back, but again, we werent poor in defense either.

Maybe just a bit too relaxed, thinking theyd win anyway.
Urgency might be the right word for what was missing.

Forgetting that it could've been 3 or 4 with a touch of luck and much better refereeing.
 

HibeeZab

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This.

Offensively, we didnt play bad football, I'm struggling to see that part of the issue.
For me, the worst part was that we werent willing to shoot and over passing the ball.
Defensively there were time when we could've and should've pressured and won the ball back, but again, we werent poor in defense either.

Maybe just a bit too relaxed, thinking theyd win anyway.
Urgency might be the right word for what was missing.

Forgetting that it could've been 3 or 4 with a touch of luck and much better refereeing.
A more eloquent way of saying what I meant, thank you!

A bit more urgency and cohesion, and things will be looking good.
 

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