Strikes,Facts Figures Updates

[moathibby]

Liverpool dockers on strike Have just won themselves a rise of between 14.3 and 18.5%.Victory to the Dockers!

 

[GORDONSMITH7]

Armed Forces Scab force?

Army to begin training to cover striking Border Force staff

Exclusive: request to train more than 500 personnel raises tensions between Home Office and MoD

www.theguardian.com

BIG G

 

[Davy]

Armed

Armed Forces Scab force?

Army to begin training to cover striking Border Force staff

Exclusive: request to train more than 500 personnel raises tensions between Home Office and MoD

www.theguardian.com

BIG G

No one whose house was on fire complained that the army in their green goddesses turned up at their door during the last fire brigade strike. I doubt if someone turns up to hospital in an ambulance driven by the army or is resusciitated by an army medic will be calling them scabs,. The army do not want to be doing jobs that are not part of their remit but they do not have the luxury of striking. The public do not want the army to be used for civilian purposes but accept that they may be the only bridge between chaos and order, life and death. The problem is not with a scab army, but with the leaders of the country and unions who negotiate together, it is they who need to come together and sort out pay and conditions. The army involvement might be seen by some short sighted people as prolonging these talks, but frankly the idea that the country simply be allowed to fall to it's knees whilst unions and politicians get their act together is not a viable alternative.

 

[Davy]

Liverpool dockers on strike Have just won themselves a rise of between 14.3 and 18.5%.Victory to the Dockers!

I am all for fair pay, I hope that all pay rises are affordable and help the workers without causing firms to crash. Also percentage rises are not always the best way, 10% of 200 quid is an extra 20, 10% of 500 is an extra 50, Some are always more equal than others

 

[moathibby]

Funnily enough I do remember the last firemen strike,I remember how useless the green godesses were and I remember firemen coming off the picket line to put out fires.

 

[moathibby]

If firm can't pay decent pay rates it doesn't deserve to exist.

 

[paigntonhibby]

I am all for fair pay, I hope that all pay rises are affordable and help the workers without causing firms to crash. Also percentage rises are not always the best way, 10% of 200 quid is an extra 20, 10% of 500 is an extra 50, Some are always more equal than others

I remember back in the mid seventies I was working in a small engineering firm in Sighthill and the union wanted a larger % for skilled workers than for unskilled, I argued that if they fought for the same % for everybody the skilled would still get a bigger pay rise than the unskilled. I was ignored, put me off unions.

 

[paigntonhibby]

Armed Forces Scab force?

Army to begin training to cover striking Border Force staff

Exclusive: request to train more than 500 personnel raises tensions between Home Office and MoD

www.theguardian.com

BIG G

The armed forces aren't a scab force, they can't strike and they don't want to be covering civilian jobs but if your house caught fire you widnae care what fuckin colour the fire engine was. Its the govt and unions you should be slagging off not the armed forces

 

[Davy]

Funnily enough I do remember the last firemen strike,I remember how useless the green godesses were and I remember firemen coming off the picket line to put out fires.

Well someone who may have been saved from a fire may have a different opinion. No one said they were the best firefighter! They were not trained for that, they had inferior outdated equipment..rather like Russian conscripts. But they did what they could, unlike people who sit at a keyboard criticising every bit of good someone tries to do. Perhaps you think it would have been better if no one tried to put the fires out? That the fire brigade came out of the picket line to help in emergencies is credit to them. Just hope for your sake when the nurses go on strike and if you take unwell that there is someone to care for you, army or NHS

 

[Davy]

I remember back in the mid seventies I was working in a small engineering firm in Sighthill and the union wanted a larger % for skilled workers than for unskilled, I argued that if they fought for the same % for everybody the skilled would still get a bigger pay rise than the unskilled. I was ignored, put me off unions.

And now the Royal mail want to stop working on Saturdays. The unions are threatening strike action. The Royal mail say they lost £219m over the last 6 months yet the best the union can come up with is a strike, which if it goes ahead incurs further losses and companies will seek out private firms to deliver mail increasing the losses. The there def won't be Saturday mail and for sure no overtime and possibly a reduced workforce. Striking cannot be seen as the only possible course of action in ever pay demand situation and unions would do well who work with firms to look at figures and come up with solution. Bosses and owners who are overpaid or allowed to cream profits is more a government issue

 

[HenryLB]

If firm can't pay decent pay rates it doesn't deserve to exist.

Problem with that is where your definition of decent lands.

 

[Forzahibs]

Problem with that is where your definition of decent lands.

And how you'd get on without the things they do

 

[HenryLB]

And how you'd get on without the things they do

Don't understand, sorry?

 

[Forzahibs]

Don't understand, sorry?

Well if they dont exist they dont produce etc

 

[HenryLB]

Well if they dont exist they dont produce etc

Sorry, yes I get you now. Quite so.

A lawyer I know became angry with me when I told her my small, 8-person firm would fold if we had more than two people on maternity leave. I didn't make this argument to protest having to hire women, but because it was factual and thus unreasonable to expect us to behave like a 250-head count law firm when we recruited, unless there was some government help for us.

She simply replied that we shouldn't be in business. Which was pretty funny because how would any firm ever get started? It's easy to say businesses "shouldn't exist" but eventually you're going to have to do without a lot of wages and, as you point out, a lot of stuff.

 

[Davy]

If firm can't pay decent pay rates it doesn't deserve to exist.

Every firm has to mert rising costs of which wages is one of them. Perhaps that is why USA dont do minimum wages and conditions. Strinking makes little sense in most cases. Didnt do the miners much good in the 80s did it? How many people worked for the coal board in the next 20 years?

 

[hibbybilly]

And now the Royal mail want to stop working on Saturdays. The unions are threatening strike action. The Royal mail say they lost £219m over the last 6 months yet the best the union can come up with is a strike, which if it goes ahead incurs further losses and companies will seek out private firms to deliver mail increasing the losses. The there def won't be Saturday mail and for sure no overtime and possibly a reduced workforce. Striking cannot be seen as the only possible course of action in ever pay demand situation and unions would do well who work with firms to look at figures and come up with solution. Bosses and owners who are overpaid or allowed to cream profits is more a government issue

And if the firms won’t talk with the unions?

 

[Jack]

Striking cannot be seen as the only possible course of action

Strikes are always a last resort.

 

[GORDONSMITH7]

No one whose house was on fire complained that the army in their green goddesses turned up at their door during the last fire brigade strike. I doubt if someone turns up to hospital in an ambulance driven by the army or is resusciitated by an army medic will be calling them scabs,. The army do not want to be doing jobs that are not part of their remit but they do not have the luxury of striking. The public do not want the army to be used for civilian purposes but accept that they may be the only bridge between chaos and order, life and death. The problem is not with a scab army, but with the leaders of the country and unions who negotiate together, it is they who need to come together and sort out pay and conditions. The army involvement might be seen by some short sighted people as prolonging these talks, but frankly the idea that the country simply be allowed to fall to it's knees whilst unions and politicians get their act together is not a viable alternative.

The armed forces aren't a scab force, they can't strike and they don't want to be covering civilian jobs but if your house caught fire you widnae care what fuckin colour the fire engine was. Its the govt and unions you should be slagging off not the armed forces

Same old trope about the Firemans Strike in 1977. I notice that neither you nor Davy mention the proposed scabbing by Military in the Border Force dispute in the here and now.




BIG G

 

[paigntonhibby]

Same old trope about the Firemans Strike in 1977. I notice that neither you nor Davy mention the proposed scabbing by Military in the Border Force dispute in the here and now.

View attachment 9853


BIG G

They are not scabbing, scabs have a choice, and somebody has to protect our borders.

 

[Davy]

Sorry, yes I get you now. Quite so.

A lawyer I know became angry with me when I told her my small, 8-person firm would fold if we had more than two people on maternity leave. I didn't make this argument to protest having to hire women, but because it was factual and thus unreasonable to expect us to behave like a 250-head count law firm when we recruited, unless there was some government help for us.

She simply replied that we shouldn't be in business. Which was pretty funny because how would any firm ever get started? It's easy to say businesses "shouldn't exist" but eventually you're going to have to do without a lot of wages and, as you point out, a lot of stuff.

Many firms often start up but cannot afford pregnancy leave, sick pay, agency rates etc etc. That is often a temporal thing until they grow. Most end up going out of business or taken over by larger firms, these larger furms grow into the companies that have

Same old trope about the Firemans Strike in 1977. I notice that neither you nor Davy mention the proposed scabbing by Military in the Border Force dispute in the here and now.

View attachment 9853


BIG G

Unbelievable...the first lesson soldiers are taught is obey and dont questuon..though they should if doi things like shooting their own people or asked to commit atrocities. You do have a strange grasp of the military

 

[Davy]

Strikes are always a last resort.

I would hope so

 

[GORDONSMITH7]

And if the firms won’t talk with the unions?

Surely not @hibbybilly

Breaking: CWU says Royal Mail will ‘walk away’ from talks to resolve dispute and prevent strikes

Company’s lack of concern for customers on show, says union The Communication Workers Union (CWU) says that it has today been informed by Royal Mail Group CEO Simon Thompson that negotiations…

skwawkbox.org

BIG G

 

[hibbybilly]

Surely not @hibbybilly

Breaking: CWU says Royal Mail will ‘walk away’ from talks to resolve dispute and prevent strikes

Company’s lack of concern for customers on show, says union The Communication Workers Union (CWU) says that it has today been informed by Royal Mail Group CEO Simon Thompson that negotiations…

skwawkbox.org

BIG G

That cvnts a cvnt G.

 

[Norwayhibs]

RMT ramping up strikes just before christmas. Mick Lynch saying the government are deliberately not trying to negotiate with the union .

 

[greencol]

RMT ramping up strikes just before christmas. Mick Lynch saying the government are deliberately not trying to negotiate with the union .

Government trying to get some swaying brexiteers back onside.
Those damned lefty loonies causing trouble before Christmas.
Divide the people. Hang onto power.

 

[Norwayhibs]

Mick Lynch yesterday.

 

[moathibby]

You may have noticed today was a big day for strikes,The EIS,UCU,CWU,Unison are all out today.Time for the TUC and STUC to talk about a General Strike, I know they are behind closed doors but it needs to be out in the open.

 

[Doc Shrink]

You may have noticed today was a big day for strikes,The EIS,UCU,CWU,Unison are all out today.Time for the TUC and STUC to talk about a General Strike, I know they are behind closed doors but it needs to be out in the open.

Not sure what that would achieve really Moaty. Lots of folk are hurting badly enough.

 

[GORDONSMITH7]

Lots of folk are hurting badly enough.

You'll be talking about strikers, who aren't getting any strike pay. I agree.

BIG G

 

[moathibby]

Not sure what that would achieve really Moaty. Lots of folk are hurting badly enough.

It would be far more effective than this dribs and drabs situation that we have now.A general strike would bring this govt.to it's knees in a short order.The govt. are weak and devided,they couldn't handle the country being brought to a general halt.Right now they are riding out the storm,because strikers only come out two or three days at a time, then they get offered crap then they come back out.AGeneral Strike would finish this struggle pretty swiftly.

 

[Doc Shrink]

You'll be talking about strikers, who aren't getting any strike pay. I agree.

BIG G

Not just them.
The folks who are choosing to feed or heat too.
My working life was choosing to look after folk, I’m sure you felt the same.
Wasn’t always about strikers, sometimes it was about other things.

 

[Doc Shrink]

It would be far more effective than this dribs and drabs situation that we have now.A general strike would bring this govt.to it's knees in a short order.The govt. are weak and devided,they couldn't handle the country being brought to a general halt.Right now they are riding out the storm,because strikers only come out two or three days at a time, then they get offered crap then they come back out.AGeneral Strike would finish this struggle pretty swiftly.

Aye indeed.
I have no time for the government and their paid lackeys.
I wish I had your faith that bringing down these Tory scumbags would in itself be an answer.


Seriously. I don’t disagree with your complaints I just don’t see a breakdown helping those that need most help.

 

[GORDONSMITH7]

Not just them.
The folks who are choosing to feed or heat too.
My working life was choosing to look after folk, I’m sure you felt the same.
Wasn’t always about strikers, sometimes it was about other things.

NHS nurses who are amongst those chosing to feed or heat themselves and who have chosen to dedication their entire lifes to looking after folk are out on the 15th and 20th December for the first time, including Moatys sister and another well kent Hibernian whose efforts have looked after hundreds of less fortunate people outwith nursing .
Nurses will still provide emergency care, but routine services will be hit.
Millions clapping during the pandemic in gratituded to NHS staff, Railworkers, Postal workers, Refuge collectors, Police, Firefighters and others who worked throughout it, does neither heat, feed nor avert proposals to throw thousands of them on the stones.
They were heroes then and are now, getting off their knees and saying clearly, Enough is Enough. It's humbling and an example to everyone. Full support to all of them.

BIG G

 

[Bangkokhibby]

NHS nurses who are amongst those chosing to feed or heat themselves and who have chosen to dedication their entire lifes to looking after folk are out on the 15th and 20th December for the first time, including Moatys sister and another well kent Hibernian whose efforts have looked after hundreds of less fortunate people outwith nursing .
Nurses will still provide emergency care, but routine services will be hit.
Millions clapping during the pandemic in gratituded to NHS staff, Railworkers, Postal workers, Refuge collectors, Police, Firefighters and others who worked throughout it, does neither heat, feed nor avert proposals to throw thousands of them on the stones.
They were heroes then and are now, getting off their knees and saying clearly, Enough is Enough. It's humbling and an example to everyone. Full support to all of them.

BIG G

 

[Norwayhibs]

NHS nurses who are amongst those chosing to feed or heat themselves and who have chosen to dedication their entire lifes to looking after folk are out on the 15th and 20th December for the first time, including Moatys sister and another well kent Hibernian whose efforts have looked after hundreds of less fortunate people outwith nursing .
Nurses will still provide emergency care, but routine services will be hit.
Millions clapping during the pandemic in gratituded to NHS staff, Railworkers, Postal workers, Refuge collectors, Police, Firefighters and others who worked throughout it, does neither heat, feed nor avert proposals to throw thousands of them on the stones.
They were heroes then and are now, getting off their knees and saying clearly, Enough is Enough. It's humbling and an example to everyone. Full support to all of them.

BIG G

Well said Gordon

 

[Doc Shrink]

NHS nurses who are amongst those chosing to feed or heat themselves and who have chosen to dedication their entire lifes to looking after folk are out on the 15th and 20th December for the first time, including Moatys sister and another well kent Hibernian whose efforts have looked after hundreds of less fortunate people outwith nursing .
Nurses will still provide emergency care, but routine services will be hit.
Millions clapping during the pandemic in gratituded to NHS staff, Railworkers, Postal workers, Refuge collectors, Police, Firefighters and others who worked throughout it, does neither heat, feed nor avert proposals to throw thousands of them on the stones.
They were heroes then and are now, getting off their knees and saying clearly, Enough is Enough. It's humbling and an example to everyone. Full support to all of them.

BIG G

Totally agree.
All of the above, and more, deserve far better treatment than they are getting.
I too am fully supportive of them. My concern is that a general strike is unlikely to result in better conditions to those who deserve it.
I have no solution and I guess time will tell.

 

[Smurf]

There's not going to be any general strike. Anti trade union legislation makes that very difficult. And in any case there's not the appetite or demand for it. I wish working people were more angry and took direct action but its not going to happen. People are scared and worried. I spoke yesterday to a young person near breaking point who works in the care sector. They have no national bargaining. No trade union representation. Who speaks for them? I think there's around 7 million in the UK in trade unions. Which means the vast majority have no trade union representation.

 

[GORDONSMITH7]

People are scared and worried. I spoke yesterday to a young person near breaking point who works in the care sector. They have no national bargaining. No trade union representation. Who speaks for them? I think there's around 7 million in the UK in trade unions. Which means the vast majority have no trade union representation.

I think your making a splendid case for unorganised workers to get organised.

BIG G

 

[Smurf]

I think your making a splendid case for unorganised workers to get organised.

BIG G

Oh absolutely! I agree.