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Southport Stabbings

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And yep I do bow to your musical knowledge G. Your only a couple of years older than me but I never headed in the direction you did
 
GORDONSMITH7 said:
Fuck me your as bad as Jimmy, he has no idea what ' revolutionary bands' means nor does any onlooker on this thread including me.
Assume nowt, it's meaningless as is your obscure take on what ' revolutionary bands' means v Morrissey regarding the Manchester bombing.
What are you both slavering about?

Bizarre.

BIG G
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We keep missing each other on this sort of thing.

I. Am. Not. Talking. About. The. Likes. Of. You.

What I am talking about is is the people who would claim that label and actually hold influence and predominate these days. I mean no disrespect to you - if anything closer to the opposite - when I say your time has been superseded, as has mine.
 
Morrissey mentions bairns being murdered and that folk have nearly forgotten about the atrocity.
How many of your bands have mentioned it G?
 
egb_hibs said:
We keep missing each other on this sort of thing.

I. Am. Not. Talking. About. The. Likes. Of. You.

What I am talking about is is the people who would claim that label and actually hold influence and predominate these days. I mean no disrespect to you - if anything closer to the opposite - when I say your time has been superseded, as has mine.
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Jimmy. Was.Talking. About. 'Revolutionary. Musical'. Bands.

Whatever the hell that means!

BIG G
 
EH17 Jimmy said:
Morrissey mentions bairns being murdered and that folk have nearly forgotten about the atrocity.
How many of your bands have mentioned it G?
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What has this got to do with events in Southport ? He also sang about the moors murders. If anything my hunch is that’s closer to this (while still being different).

I don’t think folk have forgotten either; I mean the bbc and the guardian will always prefer to find yet another angle on the horrific murder of Stephen Lawrence than address todays world, not least the thousands of black boys murdered since. But they are obsessive maniacs and everyone knows it (except, maybe, for Archie).

I’ll say it again; no disagreement on the people you complain about - but don’t understand why that leads to sympathy for their mirror image.
 
FTJT said:
Because you don't give a ahit about any of the folk that have died in any of the events you like to bring up. You give a shit about portraying skinheads who want to frighten brown kids as patriots and heroes. I think it's pathetic. I think you're pathetic. And leave my friend out of your wobbly lip fashy bullshit.

Thanks.
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Oh fuck off. So the atrocity that happened is only yours then?

If an atrocity happens in Moredun have you not to have a view on it?
 
FTJT said:
Because you don't give a ahit about any of the folk that have died in any of the events you like to bring up. You give a shit about portraying skinheads who want to frighten brown kids as patriots and heroes. I think it's pathetic. I think you're pathetic. And leave my friend out of your wobbly lip fashy bullshit.

Thanks.
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Fashy bullshit?

Fuck sake it's the grauniad. I have people live down that way.
 
You sound like Owen Jones from the grauniad mate.
Only you feel the pain.

And I'm pathetic? Look in your guardian mirror.

Better blocking me like the others who hate someone not in there bubble.
 
FTJT said:
Because you don't give a ahit about any of the folk that have died in any of the events you like to bring up. You give a shit about portraying skinheads who want to frighten brown kids as patriots and heroes. I think it's pathetic. I think you're pathetic. And leave my friend out of your wobbly lip fashy bullshit.

Thanks.
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What skinheads are you waffling about? There's many skinheads on here.

You actually come across as a delusion guardian reader who sticks to old tropes that fit your viewpoint.
 
And I pm'd you to sort things out in private. But fair enough. No reply.

But you have no franchise on grief mate.
 
Smurf said:
These EDL lot really are scumbags. FFS a community is in horrendous grieving and they've turned up mob handed to attempt to capitalise on the horrendous slaughter of young bairns. I fuckin despair.
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Yup, makes me pray for the arrival of the asteroid tbh
 
egb_hibs said:
What has this got to do with events in Southport ? He also sang about the moors murders. If anything my hunch is that’s closer to this (while still being different).

I don’t think folk have forgotten either; I mean the bbc and the guardian will always prefer to find yet another angle on the horrific murder of Stephen Lawrence than address todays world, not least the thousands of black boys murdered since. But they are obsessive maniacs and everyone knows it (except, maybe, for Archie).

I’ll say it again; no disagreement on the people you complain about - but don’t understand why that leads to sympathy for their mirror image.
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Good grief!
 
I think everyone needs to take a very deep breath, centre themselves and calm down. Horrible things have happened but the discourse is getting over the top. Emotions while human can become a problem if they are allowed to go too far.

I have said I have young kids and empathise with the parents and I can't imagine what they are going through but I am not going to completely lose my head and throw all objectivity into the bin either.

Horrible things happen every day all around the world, some are reported in depth, some are footnotes, some are blown up because they catch some part of the collective psyche. It has been very apparent even whilst abroad that this particular incident has been latched onto by some very unpleasant people who are trying to use it to push an agenda and sow division and more hatred between communities. Lets not let those people (The GB news peeps, EDL and Reform until they went rather quiet..) win.

(I already saw on another forum a bad actor really pushing the race and religion line with utterly false information. This person was called out and the squirming to try and get out of being what he obviously was being was icky).
 
Archie said:
Good grief!
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Morning Archie! Look I was pointing out that the choice is not between a toxic establishment media and toxic online rabble rousers, and that no matter how frustrated Jimmy feels, most people recognise the problem with the former but it doesn’t license the latter.

To try and make it a little less pompous, I made a wee gag using your stolid establishment allegiances and disinclination to see their failings. That’s all it was A.
 
jetsam1 said:
I think everyone needs to take a very deep breath, centre themselves and calm down. Horrible things have happened but the discourse is getting over the top. Emotions while human can become a problem if they are allowed to go too far.

I have said I have young kids and empathise with the parents and I can't imagine what they are going through but I am not going to completely lose my head and throw all objectivity into the bin either.

Horrible things happen every day all around the world, some are reported in depth, some are footnotes, some are blown up because they catch some part of the collective psyche. It has been very apparent even whilst abroad that this particular incident has been latched onto by some very unpleasant people who are trying to use it to push an agenda and sow division and more hatred between communities. Lets not let those people (The GB news peeps, EDL and Reform until they went rather quiet..) win.

(I already saw on another forum a bad actor really pushing the race and religion line with utterly false information. This person was called out and the squirming to try and get out of being what he obviously was being was icky).
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I agree with your sentiment but you are falling into traps that are part of the problem when you bracket gb news and Reform with the EDL and imply that collectively this is the problem.

The bone heads exploiting this are scumbags and can gtf as I spent a good part of last night on. But they are capitalising on a terrible set of conditions that are the result of exploitation and abandonment, and a liberal establishment every bit as bad as Reform and gb news, who are a response to them - probably a useful escape valve before the whole place gets burned down.

The EDL are different; anti semitic mobs that attach themselves to legitimate Palestinian protests are the analogue for the EDL - yes there is some connecting tissue between the EDL and Reform and GBnews, but it’s similar to that between the kristalnacht krew, the guardian and labour / libdems / greens.

We are not getting out of this mess with one eyed closed.
 
jetsam1 said:
I think everyone needs to take a very deep breath, centre themselves and calm down. Horrible things have happened but the discourse is getting over the top. Emotions while human can become a problem if they are allowed to go too far.

I have said I have young kids and empathise with the parents and I can't imagine what they are going through but I am not going to completely lose my head and throw all objectivity into the bin either.

Horrible things happen every day all around the world, some are reported in depth, some are footnotes, some are blown up because they catch some part of the collective psyche. It has been very apparent even whilst abroad that this particular incident has been latched onto by some very unpleasant people who are trying to use it to push an agenda and sow division and more hatred between communities. Lets not let those people (The GB news peeps, EDL and Reform until they went rather quiet..) win.

(I already saw on another forum a bad actor really pushing the race and religion line with utterly false information. This person was called out and the squirming to try and get out of being what he obviously was being was icky).
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I think some folk need to lay off the booze or, if they cannie dae that, then stay off the internet.
 
egb_hibs said:
Morning Archie! Look I was pointing out that the choice is not between a toxic establishment media and toxic online rabble rousers, and that no matter how frustrated Jimmy feels, most people recognise the problem with the former but it doesn’t license the latter.

To try and make it a little less pompous, I made a wee gag using your stolid establishment allegiances and disinclination to see their failings. That’s all it was A.
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EGB. Can you no just stop beating the drum for five minutes? We've had the BBC, the Guardian, Stephen Lawrence, George Floyd and on and on. I don't know anything about this awful, awful story beyond what I have read. But there's been some cynical bandwagon jumping. Please don't join them in doing that.
 
egb_hibs said:
I agree with your sentiment but you are falling into traps that are part of the problem when you bracket gb news and Reform with the EDL and imply that collectively this is the problem.

The bone heads exploiting this are scumbags and can gtf as I spent a good part of last night on. But they are capitalising on a terrible set of conditions that are the result of exploitation and abandonment, and a liberal establishment every bit as bad as Reform and gb news, who are a response to them - probably a useful escape valve before the whole place gets burned down.

The EDL are different; anti semitic mobs that attach themselves to legitimate Palestinian protests are the analogue for the EDL - yes there is some connecting tissue between the EDL and Reform and GBnews, but it’s similar to that between the kristalnacht krew, the guardian and labour / libdems / greens.

We are not getting out of this mess with one eyed closed.
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As far as I have seen GB News is there to be an agent provocatuer to make a certain point of view more, what is the word I want?, mainstream and respectable. No one watches it but they put soundbites up on X etc for that purpose. I don't consider them in any way a bunch of innocents in the overall discourse.

The EDL and ANTIFA (I think you are referring to, or those of that ilk) yes I will concur that they are both acting as extremists and pushing specific agendas. Though I will pull up on the anti-semitic part, at what point does criticism of Israel the state cross over into anti-semitism ie, the hatred of Jews as an ethnicity? As I think that is murky waters and is weaponised? You have to be able to calmly be able to say that Israel doing what they are doing is wrong but without immediately getting accused of wanting the state of Israel to vanish. Again, too many egos and hate and emotional drives making people to act with violence rather than talk. Anyway...

How to fix these communities then? First thing is they have to WANT to be fixed whatever fixed actually means. Socially (again not sure what that actually entails), economically (needs skills and investment, none of which have been on offer). Regionalisation of the UK? London sucks much of everything into itself.

I don't think not stoning the gays in the streets anymore (yay for strawman) is really the cause of any of our social issues. The rest of the developing world catching up with the West meaning less room for growth and a smaller slice of the pie and maybe less relevancy globally is not something going away.

But fundamentally people need to be able to not just kneejerk without the facts and be able to attempt some level of objectivity regardless.
 
Archie said:
EGB. Can you no just stop beating the drum for five minutes? We've had the BBC, the Guardian, Stephen Lawrence, George Floyd and on and on. I don't know anything about this awful, awful story beyond what I have read. But there's been some cynical bandwagon jumping. Please don't join them in doing that.
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Why don’t you read the thread before coming in with your usual tropes. I’ve spent the whole of yesterday on that theme, and once more the point here was that the glib politics of privilege does not license people embracing opposing bams.

And we better try and understand what’s going on in Southport Archie, uncomfortable as it may be, because it won’t end there.
 
egb_hibs said:
Why don’t you read the thread before coming in with your usual tropes. I’ve spent the whole of yesterday on that theme, and once more the point here was that the glib politics of privilege does not license people embracing opposing bams.

And we better try and understand what’s going on in Southport Archie, uncomfortable as it may be, because it won’t end there.
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I'm not commenting any more on this as it's too upsetting. I agree we need to understand what's going on in Southport. We need to understand what moved the killer to do such unspeakable things. We need to understand why a group of men thought the best response was to attack a mosque. This will need time, analysis and reflection. It's far too serious just to be an opportunity to beat ideological drums on social media.
 
jetsam1 said:
As far as I have seen GB News is there to be an agent provocatuer to make a certain point of view more, what is the word I want?, mainstream and respectable. No one watches it but they put soundbites up on X etc for that purpose. I don't consider them in any way a bunch of innocents in the overall discourse.
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oh they’re not innocent, just no worse than ch4 or the Beeb, and arguably less biased, in that they have both sides of issues represented by left and right wing pundits.

The EDL and ANTIFA (I think you are referring to, or those of that ilk) yes I will concur that they are both acting as extremists and pushing specific agendas. Though I will pull up on the anti-semitic part, at what point does criticism of Israel the state cross over into anti-semitism ie, the hatred of Jews as an ethnicity? As I think that is murky waters and is weaponised? You have to be able to calmly be able to say that Israel doing what they are doing is wrong but without immediately getting accused of wanting the state of Israel to vanish. Again, too many egos and hate and emotional drives making people to act with violence rather than talk. Anyway...
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not going down this rabbit hole in this context. I was careful to note that anti semitic mobs attach themselves to legitimate protests. It’s a bit like protests against migration - the large majority in either case will be there to make a legitimate point, while the provocateurs hitch themselves to it

How to fix these communities then? First thing is they have to WANT to be fixed whatever fixed actually means. Socially (again not sure what that actually entails), economically (needs skills and investment, none of which have been on offer). Regionalisation of the UK? London sucks much of everything into itself.
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great question. I think they want decent jobs at decent wages, to be able to walk the street safely, access to housing and amenities, and not to have the place they grew up change in character completely.

But while they may be victims of circumstances, like most westerners they are also contributors to the causes. Though much less so than the affluent classes who lord it over them. The way we live is unsustainable - no politician is kamikazi enough to face into that.

I don't think not stoning the gays in the streets anymore (yay for strawman) is really the cause of any of our social issues.
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an unfortunate choice of straw man. We’ve never had that. But if we keep going as we are, it’s not impossible in the long run.

The rest of the developing world catching up with the West meaning less room for growth and a smaller slice of the pie and maybe less relevancy globally is not something going away.

But fundamentally people need to be able to not just kneejerk without the facts and be able to attempt some level of objectivity regardless.
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yes. We have tech enabled the developing world, shortcutting the process massively, and the toothpaste is now out of the tube. The liberal elite got rich, the less affluent got shredded, and we now are where we are.

It’s frankly mental on top of this to be hellbent on destroying livings in jobs that cannot be offshored, but that’s what we are doing, while demonising those on the end of it. Greed and selfishness are virtue, the once valorised worker is now an embarrassing inconvenience.
 
Archie said:
I'm not commenting any more on this as it's too upsetting. I agree we need to understand what's going on in Southport. We need to understand what moved the killer to do such unspeakable things. We need to understand why a group of men thought the best response was to attack a mosque. This will need time, analysis and reflection. It's far too serious just to be an opportunity to beat ideological drums on social media.
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Again this was my whole theme last night. But sorry, we can’t exclude or include causal factors as it suits us. That’s a very large part of why we are where we are.

Agreed though, that this is not the thread for such things.
 
bigmanandy said:
Large groups of EDL hijacked the vigil for there own gains, chants of 'Ohh Tommy Tommy' confirmed that.
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That's fuckin dusgusting, the wee rat runs away to hide abroad and while little kids are murdered, these absolutely thick stupid rancid racist cvnts sing his name!!!!
That is the education of these gutter dwellers
Sickening
 
egb_hibs said:
an unfortunate choice of straw man. We’ve never had that. But if we keep going as we are, it’s not impossible in the long run. But we put them in prison and yes in parts for the world being any different from the perceived normal is dangerous to health.
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I think I am just getting tired of the news and all the awfulness that seems to be everywhere.
 
egb_hibs said:
Also; he’s an attention seeking barrister, lgbt advocate, class warrior, social justice activist and guardian talking head.

I’d never heard of the guy but 5 minutes on google enough to establish that anyone who wants to play the man not the ball can make a pen portrait that suits them !
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There's yer man getting a stiffy about the number of folk who saw his tweet and using it as a self promotion opportunity. Some guy.

1000029183.jpg
 
jetsam1 said:
I think everyone needs to take a very deep breath, centre themselves and calm down. Horrible things have happened but the discourse is getting over the top. Emotions while human can become a problem if they are allowed to go too far.

I have said I have young kids and empathise with the parents and I can't imagine what they are going through but I am not going to completely lose my head and throw all objectivity into the bin either.

Horrible things happen every day all around the world, some are reported in depth, some are footnotes, some are blown up because they catch some part of the collective psyche. It has been very apparent even whilst abroad that this particular incident has been latched onto by some very unpleasant people who are trying to use it to push an agenda and sow division and more hatred between communities. Lets not let those people (The GB news peeps, EDL and Reform until they went rather quiet..) win.

(I already saw on another forum a bad actor really pushing the race and religion line with utterly false information. This person was called out and the squirming to try and get out of being what he obviously was being was icky).
Click to expand...

Missed my own advice. Am going to fuck off.
 
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