• Guest, The HibeesBounce invites you to enter our Monthly Draw...

    Enter our Monthly Draw Here

    GGTTH

  • hibeesbounce

Scotland v Belgium

Getting rid of Strachan without a clear plan of who was to succeed him has been disastrous. No way would Strachan have got beat 4-0 at home by Belgium. I think Steve Clarke will come good, he will develop a squad and players with a system and we will improve. The issue might be that he will walk if he is successful, or the sfa will fire him if he isn’t. And then we’re likey to end up with a less able manager who will rip it all up and start again which is why we’ve not qualified for a major tourney for 21 years.
 
We need to get more defensive. A 5-1-3-1 type formation is needed until we stop shipping goals.

It's shit football but Scotland will not succeed trying to be pretty when we can't do the basics.

A settled backline would help too. The defence seems to change every international break.
 
If I could sign one player for Hibs it would be Kevin De Bruyne.
 
We are getting scudded good and proper.

Bookmark this: I’m 45. In my lifetime, a) no one outside of the Bigots will ever win the league, and b) Scotland will not qualify for a tournament.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What about Aberdeen and Dundee United?
 
We need to get more defensive. A 5-1-3-1 type formation is needed until we stop shipping goals.

It's shit football but Scotland will not succeed trying to be pretty when we can't do the basics.

A settled backline would help too. The defence seems to change every international break.

Agree with this.

If I could sign one player for Hibs it would be Kevin De Bruyne.

Indeed. A pass he played into Lukaku last night (who fluffed his flick at goal) was absolutely outrageous.

What about Aberdeen and Dundee United?

I obviously mean the rest of my life. As in, "it'll never happen again". Geddit?
 
Okay, listen. What is the problem with us? Let's look at some common points that are often raised (I'm adapting this from a post I made elsewhere, responding to other people raising them):

"We are a small country with a small pool of people to choose from for elite sport. Other small countries do better than us and that is where there is understandable cause for concern."

Yes it is indeed a cause for concern. Scotland's population: 5.425m

Croatia: 4.154m
Serbia: 7.022m
ROI: 4.784m
Belgium: 11.35m

So we can dispense with that old chestnut. So what are the other possible factors?

"We are a nation of idle, druggy, drunken negative thinkers who absolutely revel in pointing out the shortcomings or failings of anyone and everyone else - then demand the same people fix all those ills for us."

I realise this looks facetious, but there's a grain of truth. The Republic of Ireland is probably the best example here. Almost exactly as big as us population-wise, most of their players based in the British Isles, and culturally very similar apart from in one crucial aspect (in my opinion, before anyone starts frothing). That aspect is that they are a fully-fledged country, and consequently don't have the dour, blame-everything-on-powers-beyond-our-control attitude that's so prevalent here (and of course informs the fact that even while we are witnessing lies and incompetence on a truly staggering level in Westminster, there are still people up here who don't think we'd be better off managing our own affairs. But that's another thread...). Anyway -

Factor 1: national psyche.

"Another thing that causes the problem and it's been touched on above, is that almost all football has to be "organised" My eldest's (9) team got beat 4-1 on Saturday morning and I was expecting a reaction, a go out, call on your friends and play football for a few hours and try and improve type reaction. Instead, he wanted to play fortnite all day. I can guarantee, that when we get to training on Wednesday and I ask the boys who all has been out playing football since Saturday that 1 or maybe 2 out of 10 hands will go up.
If folk aren't out there playing with their pals, and learning through doing, what chance have any of them got? Part of the problem as well, is that half of their parents won't let them out of their eyesight. Ohhh i can't walk the 300m to that grass pitch, my mum/dad says it's too far. When the parent themselves would have been allowed a much freer reign!"


I think this aspect also can't be ignored. My ex is Romanian, and in her family, quite apart from the fact that Xboxes and the like aren't standard issue in every home, the idea that the kids would be allowed to sit in the house all day is absolutely absurd to them. It doesn't matter if they want to go out or not, they are booted out the door. In Romania, most of the boys would go out and play basketball, weirdly enough, but they play football too, obviously. However, this is really difficult when it's become so ingrained in our culture; i.e. if I was to boot my daughter out the door, there would be no-one else there to actually play with. Nevertheless-

Factor 2: kids indoors too much.

"The middle class thing is simplistic nonsense from Boyd. The SFA have no interest in change which is why Mark Wotte was forced out."

This was in response to a tweet from someone pointing out that the class thing is a red herring, considering Kevin de Bruyne comes from a wealthy family, and speaks three languages fluently. I'm actually going to interpret the Kevin de Bruyne thing a little more obliquely. It was as I say noted that he speaks three languages, and I don't think this is an insignificant observation, but it's not related to class, imo. Look at the where the recent starting line-ups of the following teams play their club football:

Belgium: Spain, England, Japan, France, Belgium, Italy.
Serbia: Spain, Italy, Germany, England, Holland.
Croatia: Croatia, Scotland, Turkey, England, Denmark, Italy, Spain, Russia, Germany.

See where I'm going with this?

Scotland: Scotland, England.

I don't think it's insignificant that pretty much 100% of Scottish players seem utterly allergic to pursuing their fortunes overseas, which I think is in large part due to fear of learning other languages. In our entire squad last night, only Johnny Russell plays outside this island (in the USA). I can think of Bates and of course Liam Henderson Delivers (who isn't even in the conversation?), but other than that, you get the drift. Our footballers are incredibly parochial, and I think that has a bearing on being able to adapt to different styles of play at international level, and also in a subtler sense, they are simply not used to being outside their own wee bubble in general, other than transferring to a big hotel in Dubai. So -

Factor 3: Our footballers never leave the domestic scene (or British scene, more accurately).

As a final observation, the Croatian league is also utterly dominated by two teams (Dinamo Zagreb and Hadjuk Split), going back to 1992 its top league has only been won twice outside those two sides. Similarly, going back to 1992, the Serbian league has only been won once by a team other than the Belgrade two, Partizan and Red Star. My instinct though is to say that, related to the above, their players perhaps see playing for the big two sides as simply a stepping-stone to leaving, whereas in Scotland, so many seem satisfied with that being the pinnacle of their career - at best, they will try their hand in England for a wee while.

Factor 4: The Old Firm are not in and of themselves the problem.

Any of these four factors in isolation would constitute a problem. The fact that all four are pertinent to us is, imo, killing us. So what is to be done? Fcuk knows, I'm afraid. The situation seems endemic, and it doesn't help that the people charged with driving our game seem to have all the vision of a Morningside golf club committee.
 
We need to get more defensive. A 5-1-3-1 type formation is needed until we stop shipping goals.

It's shit football but Scotland will not succeed trying to be pretty when we can't do the basics.

A settled backline would help too. The defence seems to change every international break.

I agree with the angle, but I'm not sure it's even formation - we just need to be better organized defensively. I thought Belgium looked like a team who have played and trained together for years, while we looked like a work in progress. The stats from last night were not too bad - probably emphasized the gulf in quality between the teams.

I thought over the two games we are severely lacking in the centre of defence, and we need to stick with or develop a regular forward player.

I thought perhaps with green tinted glasses, that Ryan Porteous would have improved the defence in both games. He might make a mistake that costs a goal, but they are all at it and I think he would learn and develop from it.

We don't need to rip it up and start again, we need to keep plugging away because we have easily half a dozen players if not more who could be the basis of a better Scotland team.
 
I would be interested to hear from Steve Clarke why Liam Henderson isn't even getting in the squad given the level he's playing at, and the internationals that he's surrounded by. I'd guess Verona fans are bemused he can't get in the Scotland squad.
 
We need to find a good target man that can hold the ball up. We have the midfield that would get goals, but need somone to hold the ball up and win balls in the air. Fletcher fits that mold, but I’d be looking for somone younger. Not sure what we have available.
 
Okay, listen. What is the problem with us? Let's look at some common points that are often raised (I'm adapting this from a post I made elsewhere, responding to other people raising them):

"We are a small country with a small pool of people to choose from for elite sport. Other small countries do better than us and that is where there is understandable cause for concern."

Yes it is indeed a cause for concern. Scotland's population: 5.425m

Croatia: 4.154m
Serbia: 7.022m
ROI: 4.784m
Belgium: 11.35m

So we can dispense with that old chestnut. So what are the other possible factors?

"We are a nation of idle, druggy, drunken negative thinkers who absolutely revel in pointing out the shortcomings or failings of anyone and everyone else - then demand the same people fix all those ills for us."

I realise this looks facetious, but there's a grain of truth. The Republic of Ireland is probably the best example here. Almost exactly as big as us population-wise, most of their players based in the British Isles, and culturally very similar apart from in one crucial aspect (in my opinion, before anyone starts frothing). That aspect is that they are a fully-fledged country, and consequently don't have the dour, blame-everything-on-powers-beyond-our-control attitude that's so prevalent here (and of course informs the fact that even while we are witnessing lies and incompetence on a truly staggering level in Westminster, there are still people up here who don't think we'd be better off managing our own affairs. But that's another thread...). Anyway -

Factor 1: national psyche.

"Another thing that causes the problem and it's been touched on above, is that almost all football has to be "organised" My eldest's (9) team got beat 4-1 on Saturday morning and I was expecting a reaction, a go out, call on your friends and play football for a few hours and try and improve type reaction. Instead, he wanted to play fortnite all day. I can guarantee, that when we get to training on Wednesday and I ask the boys who all has been out playing football since Saturday that 1 or maybe 2 out of 10 hands will go up.
If folk aren't out there playing with their pals, and learning through doing, what chance have any of them got? Part of the problem as well, is that half of their parents won't let them out of their eyesight. Ohhh i can't walk the 300m to that grass pitch, my mum/dad says it's too far. When the parent themselves would have been allowed a much freer reign!"


I think this aspect also can't be ignored. My ex is Romanian, and in her family, quite apart from the fact that Xboxes and the like aren't standard issue in every home, the idea that the kids would be allowed to sit in the house all day is absolutely absurd to them. It doesn't matter if they want to go out or not, they are booted out the door. In Romania, most of the boys would go out and play basketball, weirdly enough, but they play football too, obviously. However, this is really difficult when it's become so ingrained in our culture; i.e. if I was to boot my daughter out the door, there would be no-one else there to actually play with. Nevertheless-

Factor 2: kids indoors too much.

"The middle class thing is simplistic nonsense from Boyd. The SFA have no interest in change which is why Mark Wotte was forced out."

This was in response to a tweet from someone pointing out that the class thing is a red herring, considering Kevin de Bruyne comes from a wealthy family, and speaks three languages fluently. I'm actually going to interpret the Kevin de Bruyne thing a little more obliquely. It was as I say noted that he speaks three languages, and I don't think this is an insignificant observation, but it's not related to class, imo. Look at the where the recent starting line-ups of the following teams play their club football:

Belgium: Spain, England, Japan, France, Belgium, Italy.
Serbia: Spain, Italy, Germany, England, Holland.
Croatia: Croatia, Scotland, Turkey, England, Denmark, Italy, Spain, Russia, Germany.

See where I'm going with this?

Scotland: Scotland, England.

I don't think it's insignificant that pretty much 100% of Scottish players seem utterly allergic to pursuing their fortunes overseas, which I think is in large part due to fear of learning other languages. In our entire squad last night, only Johnny Russell plays outside this island (in the USA). I can think of Bates and of course Liam Henderson Delivers (who isn't even in the conversation?), but other than that, you get the drift. Our footballers are incredibly parochial, and I think that has a bearing on being able to adapt to different styles of play at international level, and also in a subtler sense, they are simply not used to being outside their own wee bubble in general, other than transferring to a big hotel in Dubai. So -

Factor 3: Our footballers never leave the domestic scene (or British scene, more accurately).

As a final observation, the Croatian league is also utterly dominated by two teams (Dinamo Zagreb and Hadjuk Split), going back to 1992 its top league has only been won twice outside those two sides. Similarly, going back to 1992, the Serbian league has only been won once by a team other than the Belgrade two, Partizan and Red Star. My instinct though is to say that, related to the above, their players perhaps see playing for the big two sides as simply a stepping-stone to leaving, whereas in Scotland, so many seem satisfied with that being the pinnacle of their career - at best, they will try their hand in England for a wee while.

Factor 4: The Old Firm are not in and of themselves the problem.

Any of these four factors in isolation would constitute a problem. The fact that all four are pertinent to us is, imo, killing us. So what is to be done? Fcuk knows, I'm afraid. The situation seems endemic, and it doesn't help that the people charged with driving our game seem to have all the vision of a Morningside golf club committee.

Great post @aggie a very detailed analysis.

It’s really disheartening if kids aren’t playing fitba for fun as much anymore, it shouldn’t have to be something that needs organised. Maybe Boyd has struck on something with the middle class comments; not all parents can afford the time and/or cash involved. Will talented kids from poorer homes miss out purely for financial reasons? Or is there a pathway for them also?

Also agree about your Hendo comments, he should’ve been in the squad. However, not so sure about the mindset of our players being reluctant to ply their trade overseas. You couldn’t get 2 bigger bams than GOC and Deeks and they were still willing to give it a whirl? Although maybe you were meaning from a younger age in which case I agree. The better South American players in particular move overseas and are taken right out of their comfort zone from an early age, and it seems to benefit them.
 
One of the major problems in Scotland is obviously the bevvy culture, and also more significantly, the idea that lads when they reach the age of about 17 and 18 and have signed for a major club they think they have made it. The reality is they are only starting to learn and have to work extremely hard if they want to succeed in the game. John Collins is a great example of this. A lad with natural ability who looked after himself, and worked hard to improve his game and as a result played at at very high level for years. The dependency culture in Scotland is also a major problem. We drink, smoke and gamble too much. Young lads are encouraged when they reach 18 to out out on the piss every week-end, get blootered and chase after lassies. Does this happen in Croatia ? I don't know, but they are the nation Scotland should be modelling itself on. I know for a fact that despite all the criticism the SFA get they have invested heavily in the last 10 years or so in coaching and facilities. The Oriam is a magnificent facility. I still don't think the coaching is good enough. When laddies play football they don't get enough of the ball. Not enough random football being played in parks and on the street. When I was a laddie (sound like my dad here !) I played football constantly in the street and parks with my mates, then I played in the school playground with my school mates, then I played for my school team and various Boys clubs, then I came home and went out and played more football. Youngsters are not playing enough football in their spare time.
 
Last edited:
Scottish young people have never drunk less.

 
Last edited:
Scottish young people have never drunk less.


Probably off set with weed and vaping
 
Can't remember the last time i saw kids playing unorganised football , not seen a worn away "goalmouth" for a while either .
Seems to be far more kids teams these days but less kids just kicking a ball about . We had nothing else to do years ago
 
I think the introduction of the SPL coincides with the last time we qualified for a major tournament :102:
 
Can't remember the last time i saw kids playing unorganised football , not seen a worn away "goalmouth" for a while either .
Seems to be far more kids teams these days but less kids just kicking a ball about . We had nothing else to do years ago

Yep. We’ve got some fairly decent sized public playing fields near us and never see any young lads just having a simple kick about.

Mind you I stay in England so maybe not the best example to point out the issues affecting the Scottish game ?
 
I think the introduction of the SPL coincides with the last time we qualified for a major tournament :102:

We ditched Umbro strips in 2000. Personally I blame that.

And we should bring back red away strips. Not maroon, red.
 
We ditched Umbro strips in 2000. Personally I blame that.

And we should bring back red away strips. Not maroon, red.

Dinnae be daft man.


You'd have to change your username!
 

This thread has been viewed 1542 times.

Your donation helps pay for our dedicated server and software support renewals. We really do appreciate it!
Goal
£100.00
Earned
£47.50