Multiple merged threads about Daily Retard articles. by Duncan and Cowan on the SCF (1 Viewer)

Cantona

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So what do we do when we lose?

Should we have boo'd them off the park on Sunday?
Booing them is just counter productive but listening to the interviews when i watched the game again the next day and reading some of the comments on here you would think that it didn't really matter that we got humped.....It was the cup final for fucks sake.

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Tartan Army syndrome, turn up, accept defeat and have a party regardless. That attitude will rub off on the players.
Exactly :applause:
 
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Hammi

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Booing them is just counter productive but listening to the interviews when i watched the game again the next day and reading some of the comments on here you would think that it didn't really matter that we got humped.....It was the cup final for fucks sake.
You said we shouldn't accept defeat, you need to show the club your not accepting it somehow, writing a strongly worded letter instead of booing then?

You celebrate the occasion as well as the result.
Would you go see Hibs playing against Marseille in France and then get humped, would you just go back to your hotel depressed or would you go enjoy yourself?
I had a good day, I enjoyed the day, I wasn't too disappointed in the performance as a whole and I was overjoyed at the show of support from the fans. Each one of those things warranted me going out and having a great time with my best mates and other Hibbies all around Edinburgh.

I can understand being disappointed at not winning, everyone wants Hibs to win, but I'm not going to go home and do fuck all because we got beat. I done that last year and it was more depressing than the game itself.
 
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wee 162

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Tartan Army syndrome, turn up, accept defeat and have a party regardless. That attitude will rub off on the players.
Disagree hugely. That didn't happen last year. The fans walked out on the team in a game we had a more than decent chance in when they didn't perform. At the semi final this year for the only time in my life I seen a Hibs side booed onto the park in the second half after another unacceptable performance.

So did the attitude completely change in a month? Or did the fans actually show a decent amount of sense by not accepting defeats and performances that were unacceptable, but also accept that when you're beat by a better side and put in an effort then that isn't worth crucifying the team for?

I also disagree with the Tartan Army thing btw. It's a total cliche, and it looks like bollocks to me. The only time I've went to see Scotland in the last couple of decades they were playing Brazil in London and the fans near me weren't exactly accepting of getting beat of Brazil. I've also seen them absolutely slating their side when they haven't performed.

I'd also add that turning round and enjoying yourself regardless of the result is probably quite healthy. Unless you're into self-flagellation what's the alternative? We don't actually play the games, and all that can be done by us is support our side. If the side isn't good enough, then I don't think that's primarily the fans fault.
 
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Chester Perry

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I also disagree with the Tartan Army thing btw. It's a total cliche, and it looks like bollocks to me. The only time I've went to see Scotland in the last couple of decades they were playing Brazil in London and the fans near me weren't exactly accepting of getting beat of Brazil. I've also seen them absolutely slating their side when they haven't performed.
Minsk, Dortmund, Mannheim, Amshterdam, Cardiff...ive seen it plenty of times. The Allez song is almost as bad as Doe a Deer too.
 
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Dub

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Minsk, Dortmund, Mannheim, Amshterdam, Cardiff...ive seen it plenty of times. The Allez song is almost as bad as Doe a Deer too.
No it isn't. At least in my humble opinion anyhow.

The Allez song got everyone [apart from Cantona and yersel :wink:] singing along and it generated/generates a good bit of atmosphere. It is also applicable to Hibs as we are from the capital.

What the fukk Doe a Deer has got to do with supporting Scotland has always been beyond me.
 
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Cantona

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No it isn't. At least in my humble opinion anyhow.

The Allez song got everyone [apart from Cantona and yersel :wink:] singing along and it generated/generates a good bit of atmosphere. It is also applicable to Hibs as we are from the capital.

What the fukk Doe a Deer has got to do with supporting Scotland has always been beyond me.
I sung the Allez song at the game and in a club before it. I didn't sing it at 2 in the morning while taking part in a conga up and down Leith Walk :ura:....far too hacked of for that
 
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Sir Albert

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Re Colin Duncans column never have truer words been written . Felon and his players lack of realism and culpability after another happen horror show is laughable . As Duncan says with this mentality it will be another hundred years before we win the Scottish cup. Felons aftermath summing up of the game showed weakness and weak managers will never bring success on the pitch
That will be apart from the several League Titles and Cups he has already won both as a player and a manager yeah? The guy is a winner.
 
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Sir Albert

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Minsk, Dortmund, Mannheim, Amshterdam, Cardiff...ive seen it plenty of times. The Allez song is almost as bad as Doe a Deer too.
In what way? It's a football song that was stollen from a German Team. Don't see how it is in any way similar to Doe a Deer.
 
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tricky

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I also disagree with the Tartan Army thing btw. It's a total cliche, and it looks like bollocks to me. The only time I've went to see Scotland in the last couple of decades they were playing Brazil in London and the fans near me weren't exactly accepting of getting beat of Brazil. I've also seen them absolutely slating their side when they haven't performed.

I'd also add that turning round and enjoying yourself regardless of the result is probably quite healthy. Unless you're into self-flagellation what's the alternative? We don't actually play the games, and all that can be done by us is support our side. If the side isn't good enough, then I don't think that's primarily the fans fault.
agreed, its a load of shite this myth about the scotland support perpetrated by the likes of james traynor.

somehow it becomes the fans fault for the teams shortcomings.
 
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Frenchman

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Not one for buying the record, however wanted something to read with a cuppa and the evening news wasn't in. Anyway just read an article by Colin Duncan..(yeh whoever he is). Wondered what other bouncers views were on it.

He states that there is something wrong with the mentality of players..and in particular manager Fenlon when t hey are content to be walked over by Celtic. He is particularly critical that no defenders held their hand up individually but just said we defend as a unit and share the responsibility. Only LG gets any credit as he aparantly was hurting too much to come out for a post match interview.

Ok so lets look at some things. Yes I do believe that over the last few years Hibs have had a poor us attitude and seem content at times with mediocracy. While it was difficult to compete with our city rivals and the gruesome twosome from Glasgow, there have been times when we use money as an excuse for losses. Yes we may have inferior players but lack of money should never be an excuse for lack of endeavour and grit. But on Sunday I am not convinced this was the case and that I believe is why the Hibs supporters stayed at the end. Yes we lost two poor goals but the players did seem to give a damn, but they were simply outplayed at times. We talk a lot about Hearts wage bill but Celtic can pretty much buy and pay whoever they want (real top players excluded). They take the best players from Scottish teams and cream off good talent from England while teams like Hibs often rely on journeymen mixed with some youth who end up leaving us well before their prime years. We were beaten but I saw the players giving what they had, which sadly wasn't enough as there is a real lack of talent at Hibs right now.

Perhaps we are also guilty of expecting too much too soon. We got off to a flyer and may'be that was part of our downfall. Expectations rose through the roof but long before halfway through the season the cracks were there for all to see. I am not in the least surprised Celtics two first goals were from crosses, we have been murder at defending them all season and that needs sorted. But we have also been a poor poor team for a lot of seasons now, and yet qualified for two SC finals in two seasons.

Yes St.Mirren beat celtic in the LC, but St,Mirren have had more time to gel together and it is always easier playing celtic earlier in the season, as the 1-0 win at ER proves. They also rested the last few weeks while we were slogging it out for 7th place and much credit to the players for managing the feat considering how we usually finish seasons. But progress has been made. PF has also learned his lesson and changed his formation and in recent weeks given youth a chance.

I am seriously doubting I'll ever live to see a SC win, but I do see improvement and we need to keep moving forward. We have made our way a lot of semis and finals in the last 20-30 years in both competitions, but then seem to break teams up and have to start again. We need consistency both with the manager and players. If we are guilty of complacency then that has to change and I do not believe PF is under any illusion that progress has to be made year on year until we reach a level of consistency with no fear. But lets also be realistic. Celtic have zero debts and money coming in from all angles. They must have made over 10m from the Euro campaign alone. How much to Hibs pull in during a whole season? But as I said we need to continue progressing and I hope Tom Farmer and others can get some serious investments coming our way. But the first thing is we have to show we are a team wanting to win. The news that players are opting for teams such as St Mirren and St Johnstone etc is sad indeed. Hibs were a big enough team in the past getting Gordon Smiths signature from under hearts nose, when he was a self confessed Jambo and keeping the likes of Stanton way longer than we had any right to. But times have changed and money is king, but we do need to continue to show desire and ambition to make the right signings.

The fans this season have made a massive contribution to the atmosphere and sense of family team. This also needs to continue and hopefully we will not get to the point where we go quiet when we are winning simply because we expect to, but that a winning team will make us louder and happier.
'Mediocracy' is not in my vocabulary, and nor will I accept it as part of Hibs'. Which is why I was devastated by the complete capitulation we witnessed on Saturday, followed by the abject acceptance by especially our manager. I am hurting even more than I was last year for, while we know the terrible state we were in last year and the cheating the turds indulged in to make sure they won the day, we seemed a better prepared outfit with a manager who'd had time to 'get it together.' Not a single shot on goal! Explain Mr Fenlon. The Record journalist was right.

Some people on here will know why this one is hurting me more than most. I phoned Rod Petrie today to tell him just why.

Broken hearted.
 
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Hammi

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'Mediocracy' is not in my vocabulary, and nor will I accept it as part of Hibs'. Which is why I was devastated by the complete capitulation we witnessed on Saturday, followed by the abject acceptance by especially our manager. I am hurting even more than I was last year for, while we know the terrible state we were in last year and the cheating the turds indulged in to make sure they won the day, we seemed a better prepared outfit with a manager who'd had time to 'get it together.' Not a single shot on goal! Explain Mr Fenlon. The Record journalist was right.

Some people on here will know why this one is hurting me more than most. I phoned Rod Petrie today to tell him just why.

Broken hearted.
Bit in bold is wrong, and it's the only thing you used as a measurement of how bad we were :dunno:

I'm sorry for whatever has made this time around hurt more than most though, and best wishes with whatever it is.
 
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Frenchman

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Bit in bold is wrong, and it's the only thing you used as a measurement of how bad we were :dunno:

I'm sorry for whatever has made this time around hurt more than most though, and best wishes with whatever it is.
Well, I can't remember much apart from the header, Hammi. I suppose I could have cited the lack of energy, the meek acceptance of inevitable defeat.
 
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Hammi

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Well, I can't remember much apart from the header, Hammi. I suppose I could have cited the lack of energy, the meek acceptance of inevitable defeat.
Other attempts were blocked, and Griffiths flashed one across the goal line practically with nobody there to follow it up.
Just depends on how you read a game I suppose, I thought we played as well as we could on the day, I could complain about different individual moments, but over the course I thought we were okay. Not great.

I dunno about acceptance of defeat. It's a hit on miss on how you interpret stuff.
You could say we accepted defeat too easy, but for me it was a case of accepting the fact Celtic are just a better team, nothing we can do about that because in terms of club we just can not compete with them.

To have won we would have needed a performance of mammoth proportions, and we just weren't able to give that.
 
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Frenchman

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Other attempts were blocked, and Griffiths flashed one across the goal line practically with nobody there to follow it up.
Just depends on how you read a game I suppose, I thought we played as well as we could on the day, I could complain about different individual moments, but over the course I thought we were okay. Not great.

I dunno about acceptance of defeat. It's a hit on miss on how you interpret stuff.
You could say we accepted defeat too easy, but for me it was a case of accepting the fact Celtic are just a better team, nothing we can do about that because in terms of club we just can not compete with them.

To have won we would have needed a performance of mammoth proportions, and we just weren't able to give that.
Bannockburn.
 
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HATTIE

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The fact i went out with guys after the game and got rat arsed, was irrelevant of how the fuckin game went....i couldnt give two shits if someone wants to go home and crawl into a cupboard and hide away. They can do what the fuck they want
I went out with guys who had travelled a fair distance for the game and wanted to go out for a few pints afterwards, which turned into a great night with a lot of drink consumed, i cant believe because of that we are the equivalent of the tartan Army, and accept mediocrity, fuck me man that is quality, you obviously dont follow Hibs much in with the fans then eh, or you would know that statement is just mental.....
I hope you enjoyed your wee cupboard Cantona and chester perry. Really puzzles me why this bothers people, it really does:hmmm as said though, i couldnt give a fuck
I was out with good guys who are as passionate about Hibs as anyone, but you must be more of a Hibby than anyone with your logic ehdanni
 
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oo2beahibby

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Well, I can't remember much apart from the header, Hammi. I suppose I could have cited the lack of energy, the meek acceptance of inevitable defeat.
I don't think we meekly accepted defeat, Frenchie. The main reason we didn't perform well was because of Griffiths' fitness, or lack thereof.

I kept on saying to my mate next to me that Fenlon would be better with eleven fit men on the park, and whilst I don't think it would've made a whole lot of difference to the outcome, it meant others had to fight that wee bit harder just to remain in shape while Leigh was on the park. I saw lots of energy from most players except Leigh - maybe KT too - and that IMO was because of Leigh's injury and KT's ability to read a game.

For what it's worth, I think it was a gamble most managers would've taken given Leigh's ability to score from very lean pickings, and one I'd have taken too.
 
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Monkey Harris

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Enough of the excuses

Enough of the excuses, enough of the "We were just beaten by a better side" line. Lennon's Celtic team are not a vintage Celtic team. Lennon's record at Hampden as a gaffer has been poor, with Killie, Hearts and St Mirren all managing to raise their game and beat the so-called better side on the way to lifting silverware.
Even Ross County bettered Lennon's bhoys at the National stadium. And just last month Dundee U pushed Lennon's side to the limit, only losing in extra time.

The fact is we gave Lennon his easiest day at Hampden. In the end of the day this was not a day or season to be proud of.

Fenlon failed to reach the top six, and has lead us to three meek performances at Hampden.
So do we stick with Pat and another year in the bottom six, playing eye bleeding fitba. Or do the board hold their hands up, bring in an experienced manager with a bit of clout and back him financially.
 
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dmn1989

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Enough of the excuses, enough of the "We were just beaten by a better side" line. Lennon's Celtic team are not a vintage Celtic team. Lennon's record at Hampden as a gaffer has been poor, with Killie, Hearts and St Mirren all managing to raise their game and beat the so-called better side on the way to lifting silverware.
Even Ross County bettered Lennon's bhoys at the National stadium. And just last month Dundee U pushed Lennon's side to the limit, only losing in extra time.

The fact is we gave Lennon his easiest day at Hampden. In the end of the day this was not a day or season to be proud of.

Fenlon failed to reach the top six, and has lead us to three meek performances at Hampden.
So do we stick with Pat and another year in the bottom six, playing eye bleeding fitba. Or do the board hold their hands up, bring in an experienced manager with a bit of clout and back him financially.

The fact of the matter is Celtic paid us more for Stokes than our whole team cost to assemble.

We went into battle with damp gun powder in an injured Griffiths.

Yes failing to reach top 6 was a big disappointment, but we have improved on the previous two years.

I for one felt this season has had more positives than negatives, and we have left the season in fairly decent spirits for once, but by all means please come on here and put a negative slant on things.
 
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Lexo

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You obviously feel defeat in a different way to me. I was desperate to win the game as i am every game and felt gutted when we didnt.
I didn't go out last sunday for a jolly boys outing. I can do that anytime. I went out to see a victory in a huge game for the club.
Just because you have a winning mentality doesn't mean you are not a decent person. Some folk have different demands to others.
Hibs will never be successful until we eradicate this meek soft centre that we have had for years. It infects many fans and works it way down to the players.
The fans have got to start demanding success. If not then we may as well stop being a sports team and just become a big social club instead.
Maybe my outlook on life is different to yours. I have seen the worst things in life over the last couple of years that have changed my outlook on most things. I was no less desperate than you to win the cup, I spend a lot of money and time following the Hibs and anyone that knows me has no doubt about my love for our team. Will I let defeat fuck my day, week or year? No chance. I spent sunday with my mates, family and fellow bouncers. We are realists. I was at every cup tie and 10 away games over and above the home games. I live in hope and WHEN we do win the cup I will be with the same folk. I didn't choose to support Hibs because we were a successful team, I just chose to support them. Choosing to marry my wife and supporting Hibs are the 2 best choices I ever made in my life. In sickness and in health.

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Ken what? At the next cup final if we get beat I am going to smash seats, abuse stewards, punch a cop and get a huge fine, a three year banning order, lose my season ticket and shame the club. Is that enough anger and hurt for the moaners?
 
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