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missing identity

darren_l_

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Good read. The point about the youth set up is worrying, how have we slipped behind Hearts in recruitment? I was never a Fenlon fan but there's no doubt he cared about Hibs.
 

Hattie

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If it is true that the youth set up has no leadership and is fragmented then that is a major worry, has it been like this since John park left?
I have no doubt the coaches at the u20 level are doing a great job, but the overall set up needs to be all heading in the same direction , each level a continuance of the 1 before it, all reading of the same script....the scouts battering doors down to get the best laddies and the coaches know their drills right through.....
It is a disgrace we are disjointed like this.
Players can't get to training as parents don't drive, or to far away and not possible as parents work????
Get them picked up, a driver and a minibus... No patch of grass left untrodden till we stake our claim on the youngsters, and never let that grip go....
 

tayside hibee

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He had two years to influence things at the club.
What improvements did he actually make?

He wasn't just 1st team coach, he was manager of the football club.
 

Jack

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Maybe the youth thing is being partly addressed by the link with Spartans.
 

Flanny boy

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If it is true that the youth set up has no leadership and is fragmented then that is a major worry, has it been like this since John park left?
I have no doubt the coaches at the u20 level are doing a great job, but the overall set up needs to be all heading in the same direction , each level a continuance of the 1 before it, all reading of the same script....the scouts battering doors down to get the best laddies and the coaches know their drills right through.....
It is a disgrace we are disjointed like this.
Players can't get to training as parents don't drive, or to far away and not possible as parents work????
Get them picked up, a driver and a minibus... No patch of grass left untrodden till we stake our claim on the youngsters, and never let that grip go....
Spot on Hattie.sound post mate
 

Greenmachine

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I think what Fenlon is alluding to in this interview is the damage which has been done to the club due to the cost cutting measures which have been brought in in recent years. Scouting...probably the single most important part of any modern progressive football club in Scotland, has suffered badly as a result of this. As a result of cutbacks at the club we have missed out on some of he best youngsters and also at first team level we are seriously missing out on players as evidenced by the standard of players recruited in recent years. I reckon costs have been cut at the club in order to ensure that the manager still has a decent budget every year and also to help meet losses at the club due to falling attendances and bottom six league placings. However if your overall scouting and youth development strategy is either being cut back or scaled down then it doesn't matter how big the managers budget is you won't find the players you need for your club.

Now...years after the damage has been done...we are (I am hearing) about to undergo a serious overhaul of the whole youth system at the club as well as the overall running of the club. With Leeann Dempster's imminent arrival we should see positive change in the way the club is run. But here is the problem for me...

All of the problems which Fenlon touched on in that interview have emanated from the fact that the footballing aspect of the business has been neglected. We have lost our identity as a football club..decisions have been taken which have damaged our standing as a football club...all emanating from the people who have controlled our football club and continue to control our football club. The big changes in the summer have to IMO involve the departure of Rod Petrie from the club, and IMO the selling of the club to new owners. Unless that happens nothing will change at the football club fundamentally. We either consider ourselves to be a big club (outside of Celtic) in Scottish football and start acting like one in terms of vision and ambition, or we carry on as before, basically accepting mediocrity.

We have huge decisions to make in the summer about where we are and what we are as a football club and where we see ourselves going in the next few years. That's assuming we stay in this league because if we go down then we will take years to recover if we ever do.
 

Weehibbydrew

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He had two years to influence things at the club.
What improvements did he actually make?

He wasn't just 1st team coach, he was manager of the football club.
It was a big job and he made a start. Didn't he sign a batch of youngsters last year, including Mulhall and Cummings?
 

Dub

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2631584/Hibs-lost-just-pride-theyve-lost-identity-claims-Pat-Fenlon.html

good interview with Pat Fenlon, shame he's too professional to really rip in but he does hint at a few problems to give some insight :pf:
Pat said: 'I think Hibs need to find themselves again. I'm not sure what the problem is but it's going to take a long time. I know the supporters don't want to hear that but I think it will'

I say: You were there for two fukking years so how do you not know what the problem is? Did you not worry about it then, while you were on wages? Also, if you dont know what the problem is how the fukk do you know it will take a long time to fix it?
 

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Producing excellent youth players is never going to be constant with any club . Dundee Utd seem to be the latest club to produce some good youth players , might be Motherwell next who can tell
 

darren_l_

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It was a big job and he made a start. Didn't he sign a batch of youngsters last year, including Mulhall and Cummings?
Anybody suggesting Fenlon never brought the club forward even slightly from the Calderwood era is mental IMO. Atleast he wanted to be here for a start. As he mentioned himself, we did start to show abit bottle against Hearts after the 5-1, had we got a goal in that 20 minute battering of them in the League cup I think we would have tanked them that night.
 

Greenmachine

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It was a big job and he made a start. Didn't he sign a batch of youngsters last year, including Mulhall and Cummings?
He brought in Gareth McCaffrey and Cody Mulhall from his own contacts and sources in Ireland. This is the sort of thing I mean...Hibs should have scouts in places like Ireland and checking on players all over the place. We are in competition with clubs like Celtic, Hearts, Aberdeen and Dundee United. We have to try harder to get the better players in both at youth and first team level and that means expanding our whole scouting system. Steve Marsella can only do so much...we should have scouts everywhere.
 

Sir Shrink

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I don't think the Gunts had a great scouting system in place at all.
Their method was simply to see who was being 'scouted' by their competitors (Hibs) and offering twice or three times the deal Hibs could afford.

It's what big clubs do.


And they were just borrowing the money from themselves so it was easily affordable.

Despite Potters' claims that he will have the fandabbydoziest youth system in the universe (no forwards though) he won't have the money to chuck at it that Vlad did.
 

blue toon hibby

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From what Fenlon alludes to in terms of the youth set-up and how it all intergrates (or doesn't) with the Club as a whole, I can't help thinking of one name, one man who could make it work - John Collins could instill professionalism on and off the park given the time and resources. Hopefully he is part of Petrie's "wind of change" but I fear that might just be a smokescreen.
 

Gunnerhibby

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I don't think the Gunts had a great scouting system in place at all.
Their method was simply to see who was being 'scouted' by their competitors (Hibs) and offering twice or three times the deal Hibs could afford.

It's what big clubs do.


And they were just borrowing the money from themselves so it was easily affordable.

Despite Potters' claims that he will have the fandabbydoziest youth system in the universe (no forwards though) he won't have the money to chuck at it that Vlad did.

thats why Budgie & Potter are putting the emphasis on their youth system. They know they cant throw S at first team players and 'experience' anymore, so they're looking at starting at the bottom(grass roots). Budgie will not be 'investing' any of her Millions in the first team, whatever they get will have to paid by the Floundering DDs. Coaching and youth is definitely the way forward. The Gunts will have a major shock in store for them if they think they're gonny 'buy their way' out of the Championship, as the Huns will be doing exactly that. And they can pile up far more debt than the Gunts.
As Fenlon alluded to in his interview, this is where Hibs are going wrong, although we did already have something decent in place. We must concentrate on getting that player pathway from youth through to first team sorted again, and quick.
 

tayside hibee

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Anybody suggesting Fenlon never brought the club forward even slightly from the Calderwood era is mental IMO. Atleast he wanted to be here for a start. As he mentioned himself, we did start to show abit bottle against Hearts after the 5-1, had we got a goal in that 20 minute battering of them in the League cup I think we would have tanked them that night.
Ok, I'm in the mental team then.

He was in charge for two years. He now says the club is in a mess from top to bottom ( he may be correct on that )
Please show me the evidence of where two years progression is?

We went a whole season without losing to the gunts. Whoopdeefukindoo
 

Sir Shrink

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thats why Budgie & Potter are putting the emphasis on their youth system. They know they cant throw S at first team players and 'experience' anymore, so they're looking at starting at the bottom(grass roots). Budgie will not be 'investing' any of her Millions in the first team, whatever they get will have to paid by the Floundering DDs. Coaching and youth is definitely the way forward. The Gunts will have a major shock in store for them if they think they're gonny 'buy their way' out of the Championship, as the Huns will be doing exactly that. And they can pile up far more debt than the Gunts.
As Fenlon alluded to in his interview, this is where Hibs are going wrong, although we did already have something decent in place. We must concentrate on getting that player pathway from youth through to first team sorted again, and quick.
The Gunts did the same with the youth sides as I understand it - lots of moolah changed hands there too.
That will stop as well.

The 'attraction' of joining the Gunts may be somewhat lessened in future years.
 

darren_l_

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Ok, I'm in the mental team then.He was in charge for two years. He now says the club is in a mess from top to bottom ( he may be correct on that )Please show me the evidence of where two years progression is?We went a whole season without losing to the gunts. Whoopdeefukindoo
Do you believe we had a worse squad when Fenlon left to when he took over Calderwoods? Back to back cup finals, although we lost them both we could hardly compete on the park with 2 sides with squads put together with such large budgets. I think a lot of people would do well to remember the 'this is a good squad we just need a good manager' chat that was banded about. As for the whoopdedoo comment regarding competing in derbies, that's something the majority have moaned like fuck about for years.
 

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