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Macron calls the Far Right Bluff

I agree with the first bit M, thats why I'm celebrating the victory of the NPF, a broad leftist coalition without a leader or manifesto because it gives hope that the left have woke up to the threat and will put aside differences for the common good. This necessitates a new economic model, not adopting the language of austerity
Well let's see what happens with the NPF.

On the home front I look forward to seeing your resistance to the politics of identity. Because ultimately the only way to stop it before it gets really nasty, is to contest it at its source.

As for new economic models, when you have one the French or indeed anyone else will be glad to hear it. These are platitudes until that point, and that's why the likes of the RN thrive; people on the sharp end have no use for platitudes.
 
This alone is something worth voting for.....

Under Marine Le Pen, the RN has supported economic nationalism,[233] which it calls "economic patriotism" and has advocated populist policies such as tax cuts for those under 30 and cuts in VAT on energy and essential products. The party has supported public services, protectionism and economic intervention, and opposed the increase in the fuel tax in 2018 and the increase in the retirement age in 2023.
No it isn't Jimmy. I think smoking is one of life's great pleasures. But I have to accept what comes with the package and so I have reluctantly given it a swerve.

The refusal to acknowledge that you can't have a without b, is in the very fabric of our bonkers overlords. It's the same here, France, US, everywhere in the west. Though Lord knows I don't know what the better option is in France. Well I do actually, and sickeningly, it is Macron. Just as he will have calculated.
 
The RN vote outside of the major cities speaks volumes about where the French citizens have been ignored for too long.

Cities are no the be all and end all of a nation. And if folk are ignored then eventually they will listen to someone who asks them what their problems are.
 
The RN vote outside of the major cities speaks volumes about where the French citizens have been ignored for too long.

Cities are no the be all and end all of a nation. And if folk are ignored then eventually they will listen to someone who asks them what their problems are.
The overall dynamic seems to me to be the affluent city swingers bring in a lot of cheap labour to their benefit economically, and also in providing captive votes to cement their position. The centre right and left are little different bar the left having a loyal cohort of white collar public sector workers to lead the line for them too.

The suburbs and towns then get electorally crushed by seat distribution which favours the citadels that tower over them sucking in all the wealth and power.

It's a recipe for some right old shit. Especially in France where the peasants have a tradition when it comes to an aristocracy and their courtiers doing this.
 
Well I do not see them as far right. I also think that those who voted for the non RN parties never voted for them due to their policies.

They never voted FOR anything. They voted against one party.

When did Marine Le Pen downplay the role of France in WW2?

Where in RN policies are folk being denied rights? I can't say I've seen that.

I did see they wanted to ban dual citizens from certain jobs in government. I agree with that.

If you are living and working in a nation and want the benefits of said nation then go full on and embrace citizenship.

We are not having the same social upheaval France is having in their cities.

Yet the RN received 10 million votes.

Once again WHY are 10 million giving them their votes?
I've been married to my wife, who's French, for 22 years. I've lived, worked and paid tax in France for almost 20 years.

My daughters, 19 & 15, were born and live in France.

Taking French citizenship would be dishonest - I'm not, and never will be French.

Who are you or the FN to say I should change?
 
They are dangerous and I'm scared of them too but will fight them because we need to.
Please don't take this as being either tendentious or patronising, because my question is a genuine one (and is meant in general terms, as opposed to pointing out you in particular):

What does "fighting them" look like? How does one "fight them"? Like, proselytising for some other party? Or does it mean simply continuing to believe that they're wrong?

I ask only because I see rhetoric like this constantly on social media etc., but I don't know what people actually mean when they say it. Plus, I've long held a belief that the left-wing bourgeois, broadly understood, fetishise both an idealised working class and notional revolutionary violence (raised clenched fists, no pasaran, etc). Of course, most would run a mile from actual violence.
 
I'm no. It's nowt to do with me. I live in Little France.
What France does is up to the French.

But why would anyone with dual citizenship get a government job?
 
And Peeve cat amongst the pigeons time.

Who are the non French citizens to complain if French citizens vote for RN?

😏
 
Well the answer would be don't embrace the nation you are living in.
But I do - especially Brittany and it's culture. I was salaried (2nd job) to teach traditional music for 15+ years.

Apart from that I've been a partner in my (day job) business for almost he same length of time, employing 10 people.

Am I integrated enough for you or should I still become French?
 
🤣 I don't care that much Peeve. I'm putting my opinion on a forum.

But again why complain when French citizens vote for a party you don't like?
 
🤣 I don't care that much Peeve. I'm putting my opinion on a forum.

But again why complain when French citizens vote for a party you don't like?
Because it affects my everyday life.

For example, wen I moved here, I had the right to vote in European and local elections. The political decisions of others mean that's no longer the case.

Am I meant to be happy that I no longer have any voting rights?

Here, take my tax money and do what you want with it....

Fucking great!
 
Please don't take this as being either tendentious or patronising, because my question is a genuine one (and is meant in general terms, as opposed to pointing out you in particular):

What does "fighting them" look like? How does one "fight them"? Like, proselytising for some other party? Or does it mean simply continuing to believe that they're wrong?

I ask only because I see rhetoric like this constantly on social media etc., but I don't know what people actually mean when they say it. Plus, I've long held a belief that the left-wing bourgeois, broadly understood, fetishise both an idealised working class and notional revolutionary violence (raised clenched fists, no pasaran, etc). Of course, most would run a mile from actual violence.
Its a good point, I mean I'll fight them (and we should all fight them) politically (through various means), because thankfully we're still operating in the democratic space. if that changes god help us all but if that does change we all need to resist however we can. I'm not a fan of violence, I abhor it, but ultimately yes I'd resist fascism violently.

It's been inspiring seeing the french left mobilise and it's not only sociologists and other bourgeois on the streets shouting No Pasaran and singing Bella Ciao. I get there's the cringe factor with some of this but slogans, traditions and touch points are also useful to identify around - be these of the left, of the nation or of whatever group. There will always be those who posture insincerely. I'm not keen on assuming insincerity, strength is sometimes found in unlikely places.
 
But I do - especially Brittany and it's culture. I was salaried (2nd job) to teach traditional music for 15+ years.

Apart from that I've been a partner in my (day job) business for almost he same length of time, employing 10 people.

Am I integrated enough for you or should I still become French?
Just a matter of interest,can you or your family speak breton?
 
Because it affects my everyday life.

For example, wen I moved here, I had the right to vote in European and local elections. The political decisions of others mean that's no longer the case.

Am I meant to be happy that I no longer have any voting rights?

Here, take my tax money and do what you want with it....

Fucking great!
Fair point. But 10 million French citizens disagree with that.

Maybe they are voting for something that benefits them.
 
Just a matter of interest,can you or your family speak breton?
My wife teaches Breton but that's unusual for where we are.

In Scotland Gaelic wasn't historically spoken everywhere - same with Brittany & Breton.

It wasn't spoken in the grey bit on this map.

Breton_dialectes.svg.png
 
Fair point. But 10 million French citizens disagree with that.

Maybe they are voting for something that benefits them.
And fuck the rest (those who are not 'real' French) right? You can see how that attitude might end in violence right? God help you if you're (or those that you love are) ever categorised as 'other' by the state.
 
Well is voting not about casting your vote for who best represents your own interests?

We could always go down the road of banning views we do not like.
 
My wife teaches Breton but that's unusual for where we are.

In Scotland Gaelic wasn't historically spoken everywhere - same with Brittany & Breton.

It wasn't spoken in the grey bit on this map.

View attachment 14420
I believe its making a comeback, my mates a breton in roscoff and he can speak a few words of it. I hate seeing indiginous languages disappear
 
My wife teaches Breton but that's unusual for where we are.

In Scotland Gaelic wasn't historically spoken everywhere - same with Brittany & Breton.

It wasn't spoken in the grey bit on this map.

View attachment 14420
Just googled it because languages is something I'm interested in, apparently the grey bit in your map spoke Gallo, which is still spoken by very few.
 
Just googled it because languages is something I'm interested in, apparently the grey bit in your map spoke Gallo, which is still spoken by very few.
For me Gallo is more of a dialect than a language. It's akin to auld Scots or Doric.

I can understand 80-90% of what's said in Gallo.
 
Please don't take this as being either tendentious or patronising, because my question is a genuine one (and is meant in general terms, as opposed to pointing out you in particular):

What does "fighting them" look like? How does one "fight them"? Like, proselytising for some other party? Or does it mean simply continuing to believe that they're wrong?

I ask only because I see rhetoric like this constantly on social media etc., but I don't know what people actually mean when they say it. Plus, I've long held a belief that the left-wing bourgeois, broadly understood, fetishise both an idealised working class and notional revolutionary violence (raised clenched fists, no pasaran, etc). Of course, most would run a mile from actual violence.
Unfortunately their idealised working class has stretched suspensions of disbelief too far and has now being replaced. This goes right through to duskier sorts being the new source of homo erotic fantasies of Revolutionary violence.

The bold Gun Ainm is going to find working class bodies on the end of his bayonet, and some Jolyns and Poppy's at his side; dispatching the wounded Tariq and Bilal have left in their wake.

Well if he goes to France anyway. Thankfully not there yet here.
 
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And fuck the rest (those who are not 'real' French) right? You can see how that attitude might end in violence right? God help you if you're (or those that you love are) ever categorised as 'other' by the state.
Well this is the hellish nature of this problem. This is what divide and rule brings us too.

It's not a bed of roses with the status quo either, as French Jews and gay people in Paris or Marseilles might testify. This is not like previous migration waves no matter how much know nothing arguments would prefer it to be. France needs to address at least two things:

- how it improves the economic prospects of its less well off, from 'native' French to north Africans hidden away in banlieues until their vote is required

- how it reconciles two fundamentally different and antipathetic cultures (or maybe three given splits within the 'native' french) in a context where there is no connecting glue

This is why in the UK we need to pause before we are in a potentially no way out situation like France. I think the latter is doomed and I've thought that for decades now - we don't have to follow them. But of they want to prove me wrong they need to get working on the above problems pdq

And by doomed I absolutely mean real violence not Internet puffery. Neither the 'native' french nor north Africans are more tea vicar brits. They don't fuck around when aristos have rode their luck too far. Which number Republic are we on now?
 
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Well is voting not about casting your vote for who best represents your own interests?

We could always go down the road of banning views we do not like.
No. not at any cost

What views am I trying to ban? I don't like your views on RN and their racial politics but I've never suggested you're not entitled to them, in fact I've asked you about them to better understand.

You're gonna need to be a bit more robust about your views if you think I'm giving you a hard time 😅
 
Eh? 🤣 it bothers me not gun. I don't live in France. I live in Little France in Edinburgh.

What happens in Edinburgh is more important to me.

I just happen to think that voters in France are turning to RN because of their concerns the way their nation is going.

I never said you personally was going to ban anything. The point I was making was 10 million folk voted RN.

So there is clearly a problem in France that make folk vote how they did.
 
Unfortunately their idealised working class has stretched suspensions of disbelief too far and has now being replaced. This goes right through to duskier sorts being the new source of homo erotic fantasies of Revolutionary violence.

The bold Gun Ainm is going to find working class bodies on the end of his bayonet, and some Jolyns and Poppy's at his side; dispatching the wounded Tariq and Bilal have left in their wake.

Well if he goes to France anyway. Thankfully not there yet here.
Do you listen to yourself sometimes Martin? Where have I indicated a desire for revolutionary violence (either homo or hetro erotic). You also I note keep bringing race into it, funny for one who opposes category

To be clear are you characterising the politics of the far and populist right as that of the authentic working class and that of those who opposed fascism as bourgeois. The best anti fascists I know come from working class backgrounds. The history of fighting fascism is largely a working class one.
 
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Eh? 🤣 it bothers me not gun. I don't live in France. I live in Little France in Edinburgh.

What happens in Edinburgh is more important to me.

I just happen to think that voters in France are turning to RN because of their concerns the way their nation is going.

I never said you personally was going to ban anything. The point I was making was 10 million folk voted RN.

So there is clearly a problem in France that make folk vote how they did.
Agreed there is problems with with successive govts failures, Le Pen and her voters. No-one was forced to vote far right they are not blameless victims
 
In your opinion. What about Scottish/Welsh nationalism?

I've watched a few documentaries recently of foreign traders being beaten and chased out of South Africa.

Does that make the ANC far right?
 
Denial of what? What is it I'm denying? And why would ANY political party anywhere not be a bit nativist?

I see nowt wrong with listening to what citizens think about the way the country is run.
 

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